Neil young announces the launch of ponomusic

[lithium1085]

It has worked very well for many companies. Based on the success of the campaign in the first 24 hours I think Pono has made a great strategic move.

 

I totally agree with kickstarter as a purely marketing move. It will make people talk about the project for a whole month and people who invest in it would be a great starting user base for the ponomusic website.

Someone in Pono's marketing paid attention to the Lh labs campaign and it is definitely reaping benefits with around 5000 backers at present

[kirkmc]

I've never seen uncompressed FLACs. My bad.

[The Computer Audiophile]

That is not a "128GB player" though - it's a 64GB player with a 64GB card pre-installed.

"The PonoPlayer has 128GB of memory and can store from about 100 to 500 high-resolution digital-music albums, depending on the resolution and length of the original recording. Memory cards can be used to store and play different playlists and additional collections of music."

 

This is written as if it's a 128GB player and you can add a memory card to expand the storage.

 

That's not what they say on their website.

"The expansion slot can accept microSD cards of up to 64GB each"

OK we are splitting hairs here with different interpretations.

 

However my full sentence was this, "the price of the new AK is several times the PonoPlayer. It should support 128 cards." It refers to the PonoPlayer.

[kirkmc]

The link I posted above makes it clear that, at a minimum, it would have DRM. I'm no sure if FLAC can have DRM, but it wasn't going to be straight FLAC files.

 

I'm no the only one saying this; several people earlier in the thread mention bother DRM and the file format issue.

[The Computer Audiophile]

I'm no[t] the only one saying this; several people earlier in the thread mention bother DRM and the file format issue.

Without much information most people made this assumption.

[kirkmc]

No, 64+64 is a lot worse than 128GB.

If it had 128GB internal storage, you would be able to add a 128GB microSD card to double the player capacity.

 

As it is now, it's 128GB with no expansion capabilities. (maximum supported microSD size is 64GB)

 

I wonder if it's not intentional - the 64 + 64 bit. On the Kickstarter page, they talk about swapping SD cards. I can imagine that they might actually sell them with music on them. For people with limited bandwidth, or with download quotas, imagine that you could buy a card and music, and have it shipped to you. They're very light, so shipping wouldn't be expensive.

[kirkmc]

Without much information most people made this assumption.

 

Really? I wouldn't assume that anyone would sell music with DRM any more. In fact, I can't think of anyone who does. I'm pretty sure all the legacy services that had DRM - that didn't drop it after Apple did - have shut down. Also, I can't imagine that the market for high-res files would accept DRM.

 

Anyway, there's no DRM, but early reports did suggest that there would be. To be fair, given how long Young has been talking about this, there have been a lot of changes in the music industry, so it's not surprising that things like that have changed.

[The Computer Audiophile]

Really? I wouldn't assume that anyone would sell music with DRM any more. In fact, I can't think of anyone who does. I'm pretty sure all the legacy services that had DRM - that didn't drop it after Apple did - have shut down. Also, I can't imagine that the market for high-res files would accept DRM.

 

Anyway, there's no DRM, but early reports did suggest that there would be. To be fair, given how long Young has been talking about this, there have been a lot of changes in the music industry, so it's not surprising that things like that have changed.

I was talking about the file format issue.

 

Yes DRM was involved when Pono was working with Meridian.

[VandyMan]

Without much information most people made this assumption.

 

Where could we have gotten that ridiculous idea? Maybe from you?

 

I asked the panel, "The worst kept secret in high end audio is the fact that Pono is crippled by Digital Rights Management. Are we really going back there?" Again, this question was addressed to the panel of high resolution music retailers. Suddenly the new CEO of Pono asked for the microphone and angrily tried to deny Pono was crippled by DRM. Maybe our exchange was recorded and will be available for download someday. Based on what I know from many sources, both under NDA and not under NDA, Pono is indeed crippled with DRM. But if you're under an NDA with Pono you can't refer to this DRM as DRM. I'd like to be the first to say R.I.P. Pono.

[The Computer Audiophile]

Where could we have gotten that ridiculous idea? Maybe from you?

 

I asked the panel, "The worst kept secret in high end audio is the fact that Pono is crippled by Digital Rights Management. Are we really going back there?" Again, this question was addressed to the panel of high resolution music retailers. Suddenly the new CEO of Pono asked for the microphone and angrily tried to deny Pono was crippled by DRM. Maybe our exchange was recorded and will be available for download someday. Based on what I know from many sources, both under NDA and not under NDA, Pono is indeed crippled with DRM. But if you're under an NDA with Pono you can't refer to this DRM as DRM. I'd like to be the first to say R.I.P. Pono.

 

I was talking about the file format issue.

 

Yes DRM was involved when Pono was working with Meridian.

 

Pono was crippled by DRM and was DOA. Under new management and with a new hardware manufacturer Pono has turned things around.

[beetlemania]

So, Chris, did you get to listen to any prototypes? I assume you're going to let us know about your interview with NY . . .

[lithium1085]

Yes Chris, do tell....

[The Computer Audiophile]

So, Chris, did you get to listen to any prototypes? I assume you're going to let us know about your interview with NY . . .

Interview is at 4:30 PM Central. I'm doing my NY home work so-to-speak right now.

[InfernoSTi]

Wow, it's clear folks are really getting worked up over nothing.

 

For me, the big complaints were that it looks too much like Neil Young (yellow model). That and my favorite band didn't sponsor one of the $400 limited editions...

 

The bottom line is this product is trying to fill a niche that isn't currently being filled. It isn't going to be "as something" as other products that fill a different niche. It won't make phone calls or play apps like my iPhone. It isn't small like my iPod/Sony Product/etc. It isn't really super expensive like my A/K. It won't play DSD like my dongle DAC.

 

But guys, it looks like it is going to be the best option for a hi res iTunes store that is still compatible with HDTracks and Acoustic Sounds, and all the other hi res storefronts. It only costs $300 early/$400 going forward. This is all a good thing.

 

The issues about features that seem to make sense such as a 128GB card are likely to come out on the next model they release. Look at the iPhone's first model and look at it now. Look at the A/K's first model and look at it now. These product evolve. I know folks know this but why pretend it isn't so?

 

The whole "what will the twenty somethings think" thing doesn't worry me too much. They love vinyl for all the reasons the experts say they will hate Pono.

 

I believe there is a movement against convenience over quality and I see this as part of that universal movement that is open to all ages, all genders, and (I hope) all levels of income. Slow food, not fast food. Conversation, not shouting. Full audio, not lossy audio. This is part of something that says, "I want more than my fits in my pocket MP3 player while I text fight with strangers over a Big Mac for dinner." This says, "I want real music while I exchange ideas with my friends over a home cooked, health dinner."

 

The funny thing is that there is something that caught my attention and that thing was Neil Young back in May 2011 saying that 2012 was the year that the music industry would put the soul back in digital music. I posted that odd announcement on one of my audio forums back in 2011 asking if anyone knew what this was all about. It turns out that following Neil's vision progressed in 2012 and 2013 to the point where I was thinking about "what is Pono?" but knew that if Neil was pushing it, it had to do with putting the music back into digital audio. Now I see this is far more open and accessible to many than I thought it would be (no special format, no DRM…heck, they use an open source format for crying out loud).

 

This is a good thing if you love music…

 

Best,

John

[beetlemania]

Interview is at 4:30 PM Central. I'm doing my NY home work so-to-speak right now.

I was confused by your post that you were in flight . . . I thought you just flew home from Austin but I had it bass-ackwards.

[The Computer Audiophile]

That's quite an achievement since 128 GB typically stores fewer than 500 albums in 16/44.1 FLAC. What's the Pono definition of "high-resolution"?

 

Goldsdad - Your famous!

 

"With 128GB onboard storage and space for memory card expansions, the PonoPlayer is said to store ”1,000 to 2,000 high-resolution digital-music albums.” These numbers, however, have already come into question on sites like Computer Audiophile. User goldsdad, for example, points out that a 128GB device “typically stores fewer than 500 albums in 16/44.1 FLAC [a prominent high-lossless format].” Details regarding how PonoMusic goes about compressing its files have yet to be fully discussed."

 

Neil Young’s PonoMusic finally launches, here’s all the details | Consequence of Sound

[labjr]

Can you ask him if Pono will have exclusive remasters? And if he's personally involved with the engineers that will be doing the remastering? Will it be closer to an MFSL or Analog productions type of operation than it is a HDtracks site. Something in between. or combination of both?

[Superdad]

This is a good thing if you love music…

 

Best,

John

 

+1 Excellent John.

 

I predict that within one year Apple will begin offering the option on the iTunes store of purchasing 16/44.1 (or higher) tracks/albums. For either a slightly higher price or as part of an Album-only deal. That's my hope. Until then, I continue to pile up CDs in my media library room after ripping.

[Superdad]

Can you ask him if Pono will have exclusive remasters? And if he's personally involved with the engineers that will be doing the remastering? Will it be closer to an MFSL or Analog productions type of operation than it is a HDtracks site. Something in between. or combination of both?

 

Good questions!

 

And I too thought Chris was on his way home. Did his miss most of SXSW? I have not followed the dates.

 

I also hope Chris with learn and share about who is developing the desktop apps for Pono.

[labjr]

Good questions!

 

And I too thought Chris was on his way home. Did his miss most of SXSW? I have not followed the dates.

 

I also hope Chris with learn and share about who is developing the desktop apps for Pono.

 

I think I read something about also being on a cloud. Does this mean one would have access to their music library anywhere internet is available?

[[email protected]]

First, let me say, I'm very excited by all this news and the potential Pono could offer. I truly hope this is a success. But I’m still wanting to know more.

 

My apologies if this has already been discussed, or if more information is available and I have overlooked it. However, the central question in my mind will be the quality of the content. We are all too familiar with hi-rez buffoonery - e.g. the recent Morning Phase debacle. These kinds of issues make folks like me, who are new to high-end audio game, pause with concern.

That said, as I was browsing the FAQ…the one statement below is key for me. Apparently content will be certified. Does anyone yet know what that criteria is? Has Pono quality been defined a deeper level yet? I certainly hope there is more to it than sample rate or bit depth. Are we talking criteria that could ensure the content is mastered with quality in mind? Less compression…better dynamics? Crossing my fingers!

 

The PonoPlayer will show you, via its user interface and a special “light” (to indicate a certified PonoMusic song) exactly what quality level you are hearing - when you are hearing Pono quality, and when you are not. If the light is lit, then the music you are listening to is Pono-certified as the best available quality.

 

Regards,

Clay

[Booster MPS]

I did not see this article linked anywhere else in the thread and I apologize if it was over looked. I will present this only with the commentary that I do personally hope for the success of Pono as I truly believe that it would bring new people to the hobby and also create a broader awareness of lossless audio. Whether I personally buy one or not, I am glad that it is an option for those that do.

 

SXSW: Neil Young Introduces Ponos to the World -- While Its CEO Raises Some Eyebrows - The Hollywood Reporter

[labjr]

That said, as I was browsing the FAQ…the one statement below is key for me. Apparently content will be certified. Does anyone yet know what that criteria is? Has Pono quality been defined a deeper level yet? I certainly hope there is more to it than sample rate or bit depth. Are we talking criteria that could ensure the content is mastered with quality in mind? Less compression…better dynamics? Crossing my fingers!

 

 

Same here. I just watched the CNBC segment of Neil live from Austin. IMO, he seems very particular and repeatedly stressed the importance of sound quality and bringing the listener exactly what the artist intended. To me, that means some sort of system of checks in place to guarantee quality.

[orgel]

I predict that within one year Apple will begin offering the option on the iTunes store of purchasing 16/44.1 (or higher) tracks/albums.

 

I don't want to be negative, especially because based on the Kickstarter response, it's abundantly clear that a fair number of people are very interested in the player, which appears to offer a whole lot of high-res grooviness at its price point.

 

However, I can't help but think that if the iTunes powers-that-be come to view Pono as any kind of commercial threat, they have a number of ways of rendering Pono a non-threat:

 

1. They could do what Superdad predicts. Even going to Redbook res would go a long way toward muffling Pono's thunder. (And note that no changes would be required for current Apple players to do the Redbok thing.)
   
2. They could go to what most folks think of as high-res -- 24-bit and sampling rates up to 192. This is something of a knottier problem for Apple, since they'd have to deliver some players that could handle these files as well as Pono.
   
3. They could buy Pono outright and do whatever they want with it, including shutting it down (a tactic frequently used by the 900-lb gorilla in any number of industries).
   

On the positive side, even if all Pono accomplishes is make it so Apple starts to offer tracks at Redbook and better quality, that's an improvement overall.

 

FWIW.

 

--David

[crisnee]

Pono will not give recorded music its soul back. Only good recording engineers and producers dealing with musicians/composers who happen to sport of bit of soul will do so. And they can do it just fine without hi-rez. (Don't get yourselves all in a snit, I'm not saying that some can't hear longer tails on cymbals or whatever, I'm just sayin' that redbook or even high bitrate mp3 ain't no soul killer).

 

As to Neil Young, he's just run out of real causes, Southern Man, Ohio, Needle and the Damage Done. So now he's going after an easy one that might make him money to boot. I'm not saying he's a fraud, I think he believes what he's doing, he's just as delusional as many of us are. He's an audiophool with money and influence.

 

And speaking of Neil Young when he was great. How concerned was he with pristine sound when he was playing with Crazy Horse and putting out real soulful music do you think? And how much can he hear now?

 

Nevertheless, back in those days we had no problem with the soul of that music, no matter what we listened to it on, good stereo, cheap stereo, cassette walkman, certainly nothing even near hi-rez. The not so great sound of Four Way Street managed to move us immensely as did much of early to middle period Mr. Young, none of which sounded better than average in terms of SQ.

 

We don't need Pono to put the soul back in music, in fact unless it is involved in the actual production of the original masters it won't have anything to do with soul. What we need is good recordings, and great remasters instead of the compressed stuff made from non-original first available copies of whatever. And please give us dynamic range back. Now that would make a difference.

 

Chris