The Truth About Cable Design and Marketing

[NOMBEDES]

Hmmm.... sounds like the way Edison developed the filament for the first electric light. So not so strange. Nor is your post, just more shallow, simplistic thinking, driven by an extreme agenda

 

 

 

I guess living in the Detroit Metro area does not promote kindness. We come here to have fun, right?

[VandyMan]

Even if one believes that cable *can* be used to voice a system (I don't), why would any computer audiophile use an expensive cable to do this rather than free or inexpensive digital EQ?

[gmgraves]

You might rethink the "...no matter now much you try" part a bit, though - even a blind squirrel finds a nut every now and then. I also believe strongly in the "infinite number of monkeys" theory. Sometimes greatness is achieved through pure chance, and cable designers are as likely to luck out as anyone.

 

Thanks, but I don't think that's necessary. The popover example was chosen for a very specific reason. Unlike most food recipes, popovers don't happen by just combining the ingredients in correct proportions and baking. Were that the case, trial and error in combining the ingredients, might, as you say, eventually lead to a popover. Merely combining eggs, water, milk, butter and flour will never result in a popover, because a crucial, and very non-intuitive step is being omitted. Believe me, if your blind squirrel were required to jump from one tree to another before he began his search, he'd never find that nut either.

[esldude]

Even if one believes that cable *can* be used to voice a system (I don't), why would any computer audiophile use an expensive cable to do this rather than free or inexpensive digital EQ?

 

Because digital EQ is bad, bad MoJo. You sure you are an audiophile? It shouldn't even need mentioning about the bad MoJo of digital anything. Rather strange for computer audiophile activities I admit.

[gmgraves]

Again- a silly bunch of pseudo scientific drivel.

 

How does one voice a cable?

 

1. One builds a cable

2. One listens to the cable

3. One rebuilds the cable changing one element at a time

4. Repeat 2 & 3 above till happy with the sound

5. Document construction

6. Duplicate cable by construction docs

7. Listen to confirm same sound, repeat 5-7 until satisfied

 

There is nothing unscientific or stupid about such a process. It may be a little labor intensive, but so what? It also does not make a hill of beans whether of not anyone else can hear a difference or not. They simply will not sell if people do bot hear a difference.

 

OK Paul. How do you deal with the fact that as part of an overall system, if the resulting cable is connected to a source and a destination component that differs from the ones upon which the cable was so carefully voiced, it will likely not sound at all like it did when being developed? What does that say about your above voicing procedure?

[gmgraves]

Hmmm.... sounds like the way Edison developed the filament for the first electric light. So not so strange. Nor is your post, just more shallow, simplistic thinking, driven by an extreme agenda

 

 

Even Edison admitted that this was not the ideal way to do research, but he was under the gun to produce, and produce quickly, so he took the "shotgun" approach. To be completely fair, the difference between Edison's search for a suitable filament material produced an objective result, while searching for cable voicing is fraught with many variables, and under the most ideal conditions, will produce a subjective result. Like I said, no wonder these "boutique" cables cost so much.

[gmgraves]

Even if one believes that cable *can* be used to voice a system (I don't), why would any computer audiophile use an expensive cable to do this rather than free or inexpensive digital EQ?

 

 

Good question. Especially since the amount of "difference" in cables is very subtle and limited (not to mention fixed!) as well as totally unpredictable! One certainly can't use a cable to fix a deficiency in any other part of the system like an equalizer can, even if one believes absolutely in cables having a sound or affecting one.

[gmgraves]

Because digital EQ is bad, bad MoJo. You sure you are an audiophile? It shouldn't even need mentioning about the bad MoJo of digital anything. Rather strange for computer audiophile activities I admit.

 

 

You know you're being sarcastic, I know you're being sarcastic, but somebody is bound to take you seriously!

[Daudio]

I guess living in the Detroit Metro area does not promote kindness.

 

Well, this interminable winter doesn't help, or maybe it's my low tolerance for BS ??

 

 

We come here to have fun, right?

 

Sure, but some have fun by giving other folks a bad time. I don't like that, and target bad behavior as I see it. The specific actor in question here has shoveled out far more crap to all and sundry, then I have managed to address in a (relatively) few aggravated responses.

[mayhem13]

Hmmm.... sounds like the way Edison developed the filament for the first electric light. So not so strange. Nor is your post, just more shallow, simplistic thinking, driven by an extreme agenda

 

Need a tissue?

[esldude]

You know you're being sarcastic, I know you're being sarcastic, but somebody is bound to take you seriously!

 

Well seems being serious no one takes it seriously.

[bluesman]

One certainly can't use a cable to fix a deficiency in any other part of the system like an equalizer can

I tried an equalizer can, but it sounded tinny.

[Don Hills]

... They simply will not sell if people do not believe they hear a difference.

 

Fixed it for you...

[Don Hills]

I tried an equalizer can, but it sounded tinny.

 

...

 

Not surprising. Look at the cheap cable you used.

[christopher3393]

Fixed it for you...

 

So this is meant to distinguish believing, which is unreliable, from knowing, which is, what, totally reliable clear and distinct, certain? Something like that? Well, I don't know. I don't think of it that way. I think of it more like this: To quote the venerable Wikipedia,

 

"In a notion derived from Plato's dialogue Theaetetus, philosophy has traditionally defined knowledge as "justified true belief". The relationship between belief and knowledge is that a belief is knowledge if the belief is true, and if the believer has a justification (reasonable and necessarily plausible assertions/evidence/guidance) for believing it is true."

 

I think the paranthetical is crucial. Just my opinion. What do you think? Plausible?

[gmgraves]

I tried an equalizer can, but it sounded tinny.

So THAT'S what an equalizer can looks like!

[sandyk]

Even if one believes that cable *can* be used to voice a system (I don't), why would any computer audiophile use an expensive cable to do this rather than free or inexpensive digital EQ?

 

Considering that cable differences would normally tend to be subtle, and difficult to measure, although perhaps helping to cure minor niggling tonal balance problems, it could be a bit like trying to crack a peanut open with a sledgehammer ? That's of course if you can work out exactly what needs to be corrected.

[Don Hills]

...

"In a notion derived from Plato's dialogue Theaetetus, philosophy has traditionally defined knowledge as "justified true belief". The relationship between belief and knowledge is that a belief is knowledge if the belief is true, and if the believer has a justification (reasonable and necessarily plausible assertions/evidence/guidance) for believing it is true."

 

I think the paranthetical is crucial. Just my opinion. What do you think? Plausible?

 

You have plausible evidence that cables sound different?

[Paul R]

Fixed it for you...

 

(Grin)

 

Brings up a good question though- I am not convinced people have to believe they are hearing a difference to actuqlly hear a difference. In fact, the idea that belief has to play a part in the process has a very good chance of being wrong.

 

Consider please, if you could hear my voice, and I said "Hello"- is there any belief necessary for you to recognize and process what you hear? Certainly, one might mistake what one hears, but again, I do not think belief enters into this process. When one says "I believe that is what I heard" the "I believe" part is most often a polite fiction...

 

In any case, assuming belief is a significant operator here is probably just another polite fiction. Of course it might be the operant actor in what people hear, but that would not be my belief.

[Allan F]

I tried an equalizer can, but it sounded tinny.

 

Souptin, where are you? Are you going to put up with this defamation?

[Harpy]

There are some pure silver oil injected interconnects on EBay from Honk Kong for $40. The silver filaments float in oil which is pretty neat (so they don't oxidize?). They are billed as a "Tube Amps Sound RCA Cable." Would hate for the oil leak into my amps, but would be fun to try them. I also wonder why so many use copper when silver is a better conductor. Off topic sorry.

[VandyMan]

Sounds like a great way to get rid of toxic waste. Fill audiophile cable with it. :-)

[The Computer Audiophile]

This thread is going to end up worse than the Tom's Hardware Test thread if it's not closed as well. We all have many more fun and interesting topics to discuss that will improve out enjoyment of this hobby.