Mutec MC-3+

[PewterTA]

Does anyone know if the MC-1.2 + MC-3+ would be the same thing as just using the MC-3+ USB? I mean in terms of performance? I know they are doing the same thing, but with two boxs vs. single box of the MC-3+ USB.

 

I'm wondering if I should replace the MC-1.2 with the MC-3+ USB and then still keep the MC-3+ in the mix to do cascading reclocking... then I can use the MC-1.2 somewhere else.

 

I wish Mutec would give us loyal customers a discount to upgrade! *hint hint* *wink wink* ha ha!

[gldgate]

Does anyone know if the MC-1.2 + MC-3+ would be the same thing as just using the MC-3+ USB? I mean in terms of performance? I know they are doing the same thing, but with two boxs vs. single box of the MC-3+ USB.

 

I'm wondering if I should replace the MC-1.2 with the MC-3+ USB and then still keep the MC-3+ in the mix to do cascading reclocking... then I can use the MC-1.2 somewhere else.

 

I wish Mutec would give us loyal customers a discount to upgrade! *hint hint* *wink wink* ha ha!

 

I would recommend contacting Mutec directly. I have read that the MC-3+ incorporates the latest and greatest technology (clocks) but if I were you I would get that directly from the source. Product obsolescence (especially in this hobby) sucks. That is one of the reasons I went with a company like Schiit for my DAC. Not only is it a direct sales model but many of their products are board upgradeable.

[ChrisG]

Does anyone know if the MC-1.2 + MC-3+ would be the same thing as just using the MC-3+ USB? I mean in terms of performance? I know they are doing the same thing, but with two boxs vs. single box of the MC-3+ USB.

 

I'm wondering if I should replace the MC-1.2 with the MC-3+ USB and then still keep the MC-3+ in the mix to do cascading reclocking... then I can use the MC-1.2 somewhere else.

 

I wish Mutec would give us loyal customers a discount to upgrade! *hint hint* *wink wink* ha ha!

 

According to the link that SwissBear posted in this post http://www.computeraudiophile.com/f6-dac-digital-analog-conversion/mutec-mc-3-a-17300/index6.html#post507163 the MC-3+ USB by itself sounds better than multiple MC-3+ units cascaded together.

[ElviaCaprice]

I would recommend contacting Mutec directly. I have read that the MC-3+ incorporates the latest and greatest technology (clocks) but if I were you I would get that directly from the source. Product obsolescence (especially in this hobby) sucks. That is one of the reasons I went with a company like Schiit for my DAC. Not only is it a direct sales model but many of their products are board upgradeable.

 

I would think anybody with a Yggy would want to remain with USB thru to the Yggy. Thus an Intona/Regen would be best???

[ChrisG]

Using the Mutec 3+USB with AES/EBU into Yggy sounds better than REGEN & USB into Yggy. I speak from personal experience.

[One and a half]

My MC-3 + Usb is sitting at home still in the carton. Just need to wait another 24 hours of work and travel to pass and let the listening begin .

Yes not sure what to do with the MC-12, it works very nicely with the DAC.

 

Am inclined to lean towards keeping the USB out of the DAC totally. Electrically Usb is toxic, but it's bandwidth fir high rates of DSD works out.

[wanta911]

I would be interested if someone has upgraded or changed from another re-clocker to the Mutec and what their impressions are?

[wanta911]

I would think anybody with a Yggy would want to remain with USB thru to the Yggy. Thus an Intona/Regen would be best???

 

I don't know about that, there are quite a few posters on head-fi that seem to prefer AES over USB on their Yggy. In fact I seem to remember somewhere that one of the guys at Schiit ranked USB last in his preferred input options. I guess it would vary depending on the source?

[One and a half]

I would be interested if someone has upgraded or changed from another re-clocker to the Mutec and what their impressions are?

 

A few posters back have (had) a Big Ben which is now surpassed by Mutec clocks.

 

Perhaps the Pro Audio sites can be more of a guide. For our (audiophile) playback, the use of a reclocker really cleans up USB. Not that this hasn't been done before, but to sync several devices together while keeping jitter and latency under control takes a little more work, so why not use this technology for audio playback and keep this processing out of the DAC.

[accwai]

According to the link that SwissBear posted in this post http://www.computeraudiophile.com/f6-dac-digital-analog-conversion/mutec-mc-3-a-17300/index6.html#post507163 the MC-3+ USB by itself sounds better than multiple MC-3+ units cascaded together.

 

The poster in the German forum said one MC-3+USB is as good as cascading 3 MC-3+, but putting an MC-3+ behind MC-3+USB does improve things further. The twist here is a Morion MV98a OCXO is attached to the MC-3+ at the back. And the poster also stated that things actually deteriorate when the MV98a is hooked to the MC-3+USB. The theory being the internal clock for the MC-3+USB is better than the Russian oscillator. That leads one to wonder about a couple of things...

 

What happens when 2 MC-3+USB are cascaded? The poster talked about doing such test but no results were posted.

 

If USB input is not needed, what happens when the MC-3+ (no external clock) is chained in front of the MC-3+USB? Presumably putting the better clock closer to the output would be better?

 

Now question for Julian: MC-3+ is currently still available. Is it the same MC-3+ as a couple years back? Or is it an improved version using the newer technology as MC-3+USB? If not, is there any plan to upgrade the MC-3+ in the near future? And would there be any upgrade plan for existing MC-3+ owners if an improved version comes out?

 

Oh and what happened to the Ref 10? A prototype was shown at the end of 2014 but never heard from again. Is there any plan to bring it to market still?

[julian.david]

Product obsolescence (especially in this hobby) sucks. That is one of the reasons I went with a company like Schiit for my DAC. Not only is it a direct sales model but many of their products are board upgradeable.

 

Hi all,

 

I absolutely understand this frustration. I personally had to deal with severe and unfortunate case of what seemed like planned obsolescence related to an Apple iPhone recently, which was incredibly annoying ;-) Let me assure you though that it was not MUTEC's intention to render the MC-1.2 and the MC-3+ obsolete when we released the MC-3+USB. The MC-1.2 in particular is about half the cost of the MC-3+USB and really a useful product in its own right due to the full-duplex bi-directional operation (for example as a studio interface to integrate digital reverbs). The MC-3+ on the other hand has two more Word Clock outputs compared to the MC-3+USB to offer more clock distribution capabilities. Keep in mind that MUTEC's background is in pro audio, so some products were initially developed for that market, but we soon realized the power of the re-clocking and how audiophile customers can benefit from it. So the MC-3+USB is the first product that was specifically developed with the needs of the audiophile folks in mind.

 

@PewterTA: Please contact the MUTEC HQ at contactATmutec-net.com regarding your specific questions!

 

Best regards,

Julian

[pipis2010]

Hi all,

 

I absolutely understand this frustration. I personally had to deal with severe and unfortunate case of what seemed like planned obsolescence related to an Apple iPhone recently, which was incredibly annoying ;-) Let me assure you though that it was not MUTEC's intention to render the MC-1.2 and the MC-3+ obsolete when we released the MC-3+USB. The MC-1.2 in particular is about half the cost of the MC-3+USB and really a useful product in its own right due to the full-duplex bi-directional operation (for example as a studio interface to integrate digital reverbs). The MC-3+ on the other hand has two more Word Clock outputs compared to the MC-3+USB to offer more clock distribution capabilities. Keep in mind that MUTEC's background is in pro audio, so some products were initially developed for that market, but we soon realized the power of the re-clocking and how audiophile customers can benefit from it. So the MC-3+USB is the first product that was specifically developed with the needs of the audiophile folks in mind.

 

@PewterTA: Please contact the MUTEC HQ at contactATmutec-net.com regarding your specific questions!

 

Best regards,

Julian

 

I think pretty much everyone understands technological advancements, as well as product obsolescence with this hobby, so no worries. Nonetheless, it is frustrating when newer products come and one has to put aside an older piece of equipment, especially if he can't use it anymore.

 

That's why I love forums, ebay, classified ads, etc. because one man's "loss" is another man's gain, so nothing goes to waste, rather is recycled to fellow hobbyists!

 

 

Sent from my iPhone using Computer Audiophile mobile app

[ElviaCaprice]

I would think anybody with a Yggy would want to remain with USB thru to the Yggy. Thus an Intona/Regen would be best???

 

Using the Mutec 3+USB with AES/EBU into Yggy sounds better than REGEN & USB into Yggy. I speak from personal experience.

 

In combination.

[SwissBear]

So the MC-3+USB is the first product that was specifically developed with the needs of the audiophile folks in mind.

Hi Julian,

 

A small suggestion if you allow me : if you aim at the audiophile market, a remote control to switch sources would not be useless.

 

Hi all,

A short question related to upsampling. I observed that, on my system, the added value of the Mutec MC-3+ USB in the chain could be maximized by having the digital flow upsampled to the maximum, 192kHz, on the Mac, through Audirvana and its iZotope 64bits-SRC filter. My DAC is a Devialet with an identical maximum sampling frequency of 192kHz.

Is there a technical justification to this observation ? I guess yes and the answer might lie in the following article : SoundStage! Getting Technical Back-Issue Article (11/2003). My understanding is that upsampling on the Mac, and removing (at least significantly decreasing) jitter through the MC-3+ USB, produces a very clean flow directly into the DAC, which does not have to resample before transforming the digital signal to analog.

But I want to make sure. Any idea ?

At least, results are superb.

Julian again,

 

Do you have any view on this ? Is there a technical justification for upsampling before reclocking or does it not matter at all ?

 

Thank you.

[julian.david]

Hi accwai,

 

Happy to help!

 

The poster in the German forum said one MC-3+USB is as good as cascading 3 MC-3+, but putting an MC-3+ behind MC-3+USB does improve things further. The twist here is a Morion MV98a OCXO is attached to the MC-3+ at the back. And the poster also stated that things actually deteriorate when the MV98a is hooked to the MC-3+USB. The theory being the internal clock for the MC-3+USB is better than the Russian oscillator. That leads one to wonder about a couple of things...

 

What happens when 2 MC-3+USB are cascaded? The poster talked about doing such test but no results were posted.

 

Fujak (the poster in the aktives-hoeren forum) has actually done some tests with cascading multiple MC-3+USBs. Bascially his observations were such that if one MC-3+USB gets you a sonic improvement of say 100%, then a second one yields another 50% and a third one about 20-25%. Now as usual, that's a subjective observation that may depend on your individual setup, but generally we've seen a lot of people agree with Fujak. I'm not sure if these results were published by him in any forum, but I'll double-check.

 

If USB input is not needed, what happens when the MC-3+ (no external clock) is chained in front of the MC-3+USB? Presumably putting the better clock closer to the output would be better?

 

Correct, the MC-3+USB with it's superior performance should be placed last in the chain prior to the DAC. So if you already have an MC-3+, using it in a chain with the MC-3+USB will actually improve the performance!

 

Now question for Julian: MC-3+ is currently still available. Is it the same MC-3+ as a couple years back? Or is it an improved version using the newer technology as MC-3+USB? If not, is there any plan to upgrade the MC-3+ in the near future? And would there be any upgrade plan for existing MC-3+ owners if an improved version comes out?

 

Both products will continue to be offered in the future and there are no plans to upgrade the MC-3+ at the moment. The entire design and board layout have been changed in the MC-3+USB so an "upgrade" would essentially mean retrofitting the MC-3+ with new boards and all, which just isn't feasible, I'm afraid.

 

Oh and what happened to the Ref 10? A prototype was shown at the end of 2014 but never heard from again. Is there any plan to bring it to market still?

 

Let's just say this: the High End show in Munich is coming up in May and MUTEC will have a booth for the first time ever :-D

 

Best regards,

Julian

[SwissBear]

Oh and what happened to the Ref 10? A prototype was shown at the end of 2014 but never heard from again. Is there any plan to bring it to market still?

Hi accwai,

 

Very interesting development indeed. Thank you for pointing that out :-)

Best

[joelha]

Hi Julian,

 

As an owner of both an MC-3+ and an MC-3+USB, if I were to use both devices together, I would have to use the MC-3+USB at the beginning of the chain, to accept my USB signal, and then place the MC-3+ after that.

 

In that scenario, am I better off using the MC-3+USB alone so it can be connected directly to the DAC or is there still a benefit to having the MC-3+ follow the MC-3+USB?

 

Thanks,

 

Joel

[jumper]

Apologies if this question is a little O/T but I was wondering if anybody has compared the Puc2 Lite to the Mutec MC-3+ USB? I think the chances on first hand experience are slim so does anybody just have any thoughts? I've had the Puc2 Lite bookmarked as another converter/reclocker with good reviews - and it is half the price so I'm wondering if its on par with the Mutec?

[joelha]

I have both and my vote goes to the Mutec MC-3+USB.

 

Joel

[accwai]

Hi accwai,

 

Very interesting development indeed. Thank you for pointing that out :-)

Best

 

You're welcome

 

[...] Correct, the MC-3+USB with it's superior performance should be placed last in the chain prior to the DAC. So if you already have an MC-3+, using it in a chain with the MC-3+USB will actually improve the performance!

 

I really have no need for USB input. So that will be the configuration then.

 

By the way, just realized the coax input has gone from RCA to BNC on the MC-3+USB. On coax, for a long time I've been using a WyWires Blue RCA-BNC cable through a BNC-RCA adapter into the MC-3+. Recently upgraded to WyWires Silver RCA-RCA cable, but now the BNC input on the MC-3+USB... So putting the MC-3+ in front would allow me to keep the WyWires Silver too. This is going to be totally awesome!

 

Let's just say this: the High End show in Munich is coming up in May and MUTEC will have a booth for the first time ever :-D

 

Thanks. Really looking forward to that.

 

By the way, in a cascade, should the clock go to everybody in the chain, or just one?

 

Andy

[pipis2010]

Apologies if this question is a little O/T but I was wondering if anybody has compared the Puc2 Lite to the Mutec MC-3+ USB? I think the chances on first hand experience are slim so does anybody just have any thoughts? I've had the Puc2 Lite bookmarked as another converter/reclocker with good reviews - and it is half the price so I'm wondering if its on par with the Mutec?

 

I had a similar thought, but it seemed rather logical when it comes to clocks, that the more expensive solution would be the best, at least in this case. Even though both companies deal with recording/pro-audio equipment...

 

 

Sent from my iPhone using Computer Audiophile mobile app

[jumper]

I had a similar thought, but it seemed rather logical when it comes to clocks, that the more expensive solution would be the best, at least in this case. Even though both companies deal with recording/pro-audio equipment...

 

 

Sent from my iPhone using Computer Audiophile mobile app

 

I agree - in all the Puc2 info I've read I've never seen mention of its clock or reclocking abilities - that is a big focus with the Mutec. However the Puc2 Lite has gotten some pretty raving reviews on the forums. Here is an article that put it on my radar: Yellowtec PUC2 Lite USB Converter

 

I guess my cheap side was wondering if I could get the same (or close) performance to the Mutec in a $500 cheaper Puc2 since strictly USB to AES would suit me fine. But deep down I know the Mutec should be better - and I'm still leaning towards incorporating the MC3+ USB. The additional in/out connections sure make it more flexible and allows for more tweaking in configuring your rig. And there is no doubt as to the quality of the clock/reclocking in the Mutec.

[SwissBear]

Oh and what happened to the Ref 10? A prototype was shown at the end of 2014 but never heard from again. Is there any plan to bring it to market still?

Our German friends from aktives-hoeren.de • Foren-Übersicht look excited about the idea of plugging a 10 MHz clock into the MC-3+/MC-3+ USB. Does one have to be able to send a clock signal to the DAC to fully benefit from this improvement ?

Has anyone an idea about the price tag of this device ? Julian surely has, but will he share this information ?

Thanks.

[accwai]

Our German friends from aktives-hoeren.de • Foren-Übersicht look excited about the idea of plugging a 10 MHz clock into the MC-3+/MC-3+ USB. Does one have to be able to send a clock signal to the DAC to fully benefit from this improvement ?

 

Perhaps, but that's probably a moot point since not many DACs these days have clock input. So MC-3+ would be the DAC's clock input in practice. Take a look at the beginning of this thread.

 

Has anyone an idea about the price tag of this device ?

 

It's competing in the same space as atomic clocks. Probably won't be on the low side...

[WXY]

Hi WXY,

 

Auto-detection between DSD and PCM files will be added with a scheduled Firmware update in early 2016! I'll get back to you on your second question regarding muting the output once I hear back from the developers.

 

Best regards,

Julian

 

Hi Julian, just want to say I have been very happy with the MC3+USB in the past 2 months. Any updates on the above? Thanks again for your help!