couchjr Posted November 2, 2017 Share Posted November 2, 2017 Thanks, Ted_b, understood. I believe GUTB's statement (from the comments on MJ-10's DAC comparison article posted by George above) referred to alleged sound improvements obtainable to Redbook CD files by up-converting those to "DSD 264" because of a mandatory sample rate conversion from 44.1 to 48 KHz in the Sabre DAC chip for native Redbook files, which was avoided at the higher resolution. Am I correct that JRiver's upsampling of Redbook files all occurs in the PCM domain and therefore would not carry an inherent sonic penalty? I don't know enough math to know why up-converting before the DAC chip would sound better than converting in the DAC chip (other than a higher sampling rate possibly reducing the impact of individual timing errors and different filter parameters)--it's still a conversion. I also don't know whether George's architecture even faces the "problem" that GUTB identifies, though I've seen it mentioned in forums on DAC design. That's why I asked the question. I believe George has usually advised playing each file in its original resolution/format for best sound in his DACs. As a happy e32 owner, if that's no longer the case, I'm interested in understanding the options, and what the sonic benefits and usability penalties are for each. Link to comment
ted_b Posted November 2, 2017 Share Posted November 2, 2017 Understood. I was not entering the software vs hardware upsampling debate, just saying that if you choose software for upsampling DSD don't use JRiver. It's a fine player, but doesn't handle DSD to DSD correctly. "We're all bozos on this bus"....F.T. My JRIver tutorial videos Actual JRIver tutorial MP4 video links My eleven yr old SACD Ripping Guide for PS3 (needs updating but still works) US Technical Advisor, NativeDSD.com Link to comment
GUTB Posted November 2, 2017 Share Posted November 2, 2017 Sabres, like the 9028 in the e32, don’t perform D/A on the original PCM stream and must pass such streams through its SRC (Source Rate Conversion) module to transform the 16/24/32-bit PCM stream into a very high frequency multibit stream (4-6 bits I forget which exactly). This operation is essentially lossless. But, it has been widely observed that passing a DSD stream into the Sabre can allow the SRC stage to be skipped resulting in increased sound quality. It is theorized that the increased sound quality is due to the electronic noise generated by the SRC stage to being eliminated. Beyond the electronic noise issue, using HQPlayer you can apply very high quality upsampling filters to the process which increases quality further. johndoe21ro 1 Link to comment
Ralf11 Posted November 2, 2017 Share Posted November 2, 2017 do exaSound DACs require the use of proprietary drivers on a Mac? or is that just for Windows? if so, are they High Sierra compatible? Link to comment
Dr Tone Posted November 2, 2017 Share Posted November 2, 2017 9 minutes ago, Ralf11 said: do exaSound DACs require the use of proprietary drivers on a Mac? To get DSD256 you would need the Mac ASIO driver. Exasound is the only company I know of that has written such a beast for Mac. Roon Rock->Auralic Aria G2->Schiit Yggdrasil A2->McIntosh C47->McIntosh MC301 Monos->Wilson Audio Sabrinas Link to comment
ted_b Posted November 2, 2017 Share Posted November 2, 2017 16 minutes ago, Ralf11 said: do exaSound DACs require the use of proprietary drivers on a Mac? or is that just for Windows? replace "require" with "thank goodness for George and company that they provide" johndoe21ro 1 "We're all bozos on this bus"....F.T. My JRIver tutorial videos Actual JRIver tutorial MP4 video links My eleven yr old SACD Ripping Guide for PS3 (needs updating but still works) US Technical Advisor, NativeDSD.com Link to comment
exa Posted November 2, 2017 Share Posted November 2, 2017 5 hours ago, couchjr said: George, given what you know about the architecture and execution of the e32, would you agree with GUTB's comment below for users of the e32? Your question comes down to comparing different implementations - DAC internal processing, made of DAC chip and firmware or using software for external processing. Our focus have always been on making our devices self sufficient and optimized for every format and resolution. My personal development efforts and listening preference are in this direction. I also like to keep my audio system as simple as possible. I don't know which approach is right for you, a professionally optimized system or solution that you want to assemble on your own. You can be happy either way, my advice is to stay on solid ground and to understand the technologies that you are using. There is plenty of naive and incorrect information out there. For example the Sabre chips are not converging the 44.1 to 48kHz. It never occurred to me that the SRC stage can be eliminated for reducing electronic noise. My personal S/N ratio is not a match for our DACs, but stopping internal nose sources like my heart and the blood circulation will bring far more damage than good. Our devices work very well in both scenarios. You can bypass the internal volume control. Using external PCM to DSD conversion and up-sampling will work great and you will enjoy the fine D to A conversion and the character of the processing that you are fine-tuning. Our devices are very transparent and will not impose any significant flavor of their own. johndoe21ro 1 exaSound.com Link to comment
exa Posted November 2, 2017 Share Posted November 2, 2017 3 hours ago, Dr Tone said: To get DSD256 you would need the Mac ASIO driver. Exasound is the only company I know of that has written such a beast for Mac. All exaSound DACs support DSD256 on Mac OS both in Core Audio and ASIO mode. Core Audio works via DoP and ASIO streams native DSD. Both require the installation of our drivers. The exaSound PlayPoint/e32DAc bundle offers more convenient driverless operation. It can be controlled with Audirvana via UPnP, HQPlayer/NAA, and Roon. All of these scenarios support native DSD up to DSD 265 and PCM up to 384kHz/32bit. exaSound.com Link to comment
Dr Tone Posted November 2, 2017 Share Posted November 2, 2017 14 minutes ago, exa said: All exaSound DACs support DSD256 on Mac OS both in Core Audio and ASIO mode. Core Audio works via DoP and ASIO streams native DSD. Interesting. Since the specs on your DAC are 384kHz PCM, it still allows 705.2-768kHz DOP delivery via Core Audio for DSD256? Roon Rock->Auralic Aria G2->Schiit Yggdrasil A2->McIntosh C47->McIntosh MC301 Monos->Wilson Audio Sabrinas Link to comment
exa Posted November 2, 2017 Share Posted November 2, 2017 28 minutes ago, Dr Tone said: Interesting. Since the specs on your DAC are 384kHz PCM, it still allows 705.2-768kHz DOP delivery via Core Audio for DSD256? Yes it does, with a little trick. DoP is a little trick too, so this is fair game. No loss of data whatsoever. exaSound.com Link to comment
Robert van Diggele Posted November 21, 2017 Share Posted November 21, 2017 Hello George, I am still enjoying the e38 a lot. Very convenient to play my music. Is it still the case that Windows sound, Youtube for example, cannot be played on the USB input? Thanks. Link to comment
exa Posted November 21, 2017 Share Posted November 21, 2017 53 minutes ago, Robert van Diggele said: Hello George, I am still enjoying the e38 a lot. Very convenient to play my music. Is it still the case that Windows sound, Youtube for example, cannot be played on the USB input? Thanks. Hi Robert, You can use the VB-Audio ASIO Bridge. It's free: https://www.vb-audio.com/Cable/ It is a bridge between the Windows sound system and ASIO and it works with all streaming services like YouTube, Tidal etc. Best, George johndoe21ro 1 exaSound.com Link to comment
Robert van Diggele Posted November 21, 2017 Share Posted November 21, 2017 Hi George, thanks, I will install and play around with it. Link to comment
johndoe21ro Posted November 21, 2017 Share Posted November 21, 2017 3 hours ago, Robert van Diggele said: Hello George, I am still enjoying the e38 a lot. Very convenient to play my music. Is it still the case that Windows sound, Youtube for example, cannot be played on the USB input? Thanks. Why in the world would you listen to YouTube?! The quality sucks! Your exaSound deserves better! Triangle Magellan Concerto 2 < AQ Everest < Vitus Audio SS-010 Mk2 < AQ Dragon High Current < AQ WEL XLR < Chord Qutest DAC w UpTone JS-2 & AQ Dragon Source < AQ Diamond USB < Innuos Phoenix USB w AQ Dragon Source < Aurender N100H & AQ Dragon Source < NetGear GS105GE Switch w UpTone LPS1.2 < Supra CAT8 Ethernet < Gryphon PowerZone w AQ NRG-Wild < Stillpoints UltraSS, Ansuz Darkz D-TC & D2, Omicron Harmonic Stabilizer, Gold Evolution SE & Classic < Furutech FT-SWS (R) < Synergistic Research Orange Quantum Fuse < Solid Tech Hybrid < GigaWatt G-16A 2P Circuit Breaker Link to comment
Robert van Diggele Posted November 21, 2017 Share Posted November 21, 2017 20 minutes ago, johndoe21ro said: Why in the world would you listen to YouTube?! The quality sucks! Your exaSound deserves better! Some people make nice shows on YT plus some documentaries. And I want to try and see how this works for TV. No worries, the rest of my audio is stereo and mch flac and dsd Link to comment
mlknez Posted November 21, 2017 Share Posted November 21, 2017 4 hours ago, Robert van Diggele said: Hello George, I am still enjoying the e38 a lot. Very convenient to play my music. Is it still the case that Windows sound, Youtube for example, cannot be played on the USB input? Thanks. Couldn't you just use the Jriver WDM driver that takes all audio traffic and routes it to whatever driver you specify in jriver for output? johndoe21ro 1 Link to comment
Robert van Diggele Posted November 27, 2017 Share Posted November 27, 2017 On 21 november 2017 at 6:47 PM, mlknez said: Couldn't you just use the Jriver WDM driver that takes all audio traffic and routes it to whatever driver you specify in jriver for output? Thanks, I was not aware of this, https://wiki.jriver.com/index.php/WDM_Driver Seems to do what I want. Link to comment
exa Posted February 21, 2018 Share Posted February 21, 2018 A new firmware update available for the exaSound PlayPoint. We are introducing the long-awaited support for third-party USB Audio 2.0 DACs. This is a first beta release, please give it a try with any DACs that you own. Send us an email if you notice any glitches. exaSound.com Link to comment
watts Posted February 24, 2018 Share Posted February 24, 2018 On 2018-02-21 at 11:58 AM, exa said: A new firmware update available for the exaSound PlayPoint. We are introducing the long-awaited support for third-party USB Audio 2.0 DACs. This is a first beta release, please give it a try with any DACs that you own. Send us an email if you notice any glitches. Is that the only change? If I use an exaSound DAC should I bother with the update? Roon/Squeeze>Cisco2960>EtherRegen>SOTM DCBL Cat7>Antipodes K50>Jorma AES>WeissDAC501>Acoustic Zen Silver ref II>Marchand XM44>Acoustic Zen Absolute>Apollon NCx500 / Acoustic Zen Matrix II>VTV NC500>modified Magnepan 3.6R: Audioquest Hurricane & Zavfino Silver Dart power cords, Solid tech reference rack of silence with feet of silence, PSM156 power conditioner/ultimate PC, Plixir BDC power supply, Audio Sensibility DC, Gaia II, Primacoustics absorption and DIY diffuser room treatments Link to comment
Robert van Diggele Posted March 25, 2018 Share Posted March 25, 2018 George has a new Playpoint coming out in April, Playpoint DM (Dual Mono). Looks sweet https://exasound.com/PlayPointDM/PlayPointDMOverview.aspx Quote Dual-Mono D/A Converter and Network Audio Server exaSound is proud to announce the PlayPoint DM next-generation music server and DAC. Combining a reference-grade 32-bit digital-to-analog converter, balanced dual-mono headphone amplifier and Roon-enabled music server in one elegant component, the PlayPoint DM brings simplicity and sonic perfection to your music room.With refinements like dual-mono fully balanced design, 32-bit DXD/DSD256 DAC with 16 autonomous I/V stages, and exaSound’s unique four-way galvanic isolation, PlayPoint DM will uncover every detail in your high-resolution music files, allowing you to hear the music just as it was recorded.PlayPoint DM has a high-resolution digital volume control, so it can connect directly to your monoblock amplifiers or balanced headphones. It comes with Roon music-management software pre-installed, allowing you to browse your music library from a rich, colorful app running on your tablet or smartphone.With state-of-the-art performance, easy operation, remote diagnostics, online updates, and exaSound’s acclaimed customer support, PlayPoint DM will be the cornerstone of your music system for years to come.Designed and hand-made entirely in CanadaRelease date: April, 2018 johndoe21ro 1 Link to comment
Robert van Diggele Posted March 25, 2018 Share Posted March 25, 2018 Question: is it possible to get the Nvidia Shield TV USB audio out to the e38? Is does this not work because the Shield does not have the exa driver? Thanks. Link to comment
exa Posted March 25, 2018 Share Posted March 25, 2018 24 minutes ago, Robert van Diggele said: Question: is it possible to get the Nvidia Shield TV USB audio out to the e38? Is does this not work because the Shield does not have the exa driver? Thanks. You can make it to play to The JRiver WDM driver and forward the output to the JRiver e38 zone. You can also use VB-Audio ASIO Bridge: https://www.vb-audio.com/Cable/ Robert van Diggele 1 exaSound.com Link to comment
Popular Post exa Posted March 25, 2018 Popular Post Share Posted March 25, 2018 Beside the PlayPoint DM, we've just released PlayPoint Mark II. It comes with twice more powerful CPU and double the RAM. https://exasound.com/PlayPoint/PlayPointMKIIOverview.aspx Robert van Diggele and johndoe21ro 2 exaSound.com Link to comment
Robert van Diggele Posted March 25, 2018 Share Posted March 25, 2018 37 minutes ago, exa said: You can make it to play to The JRiver WDM driver and forward the output to the JRiver e38 zone. You can also use VB-Audio ASIO Bridge: https://www.vb-audio.com/Cable/ Hi George, thanks. But the Shield is an android stand alone piece. Will that still work with the path you discribed? Link to comment
John G Posted March 28, 2018 Share Posted March 28, 2018 I have the exaSound e12 DAC playing to a C.A.P.S-style PC. Roon sees this as a generic DAC, I guess, rather than identifying the model as it does with the Audioquest Dragonfly I use at another endpoint. Everything works, but I can't control the volume of the exaSound DAC through Roon the same way I can with the Dragonfly. I presume Roon sees the Audioquest because of some arrangement between the two companies. Is there any possibility that exaSound can make this happen for their DACs as well? Link to comment
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