Audirvana 1.5 Beta

[Esprit]

"Error: Unable to grab exclusive access OSError=!goh"

 

This has never happened before - what gives?

Another software is using the DAC (hog mode). Close all sw, reopen A+ and try again.

[damien78]

I think there is a small bug in Audirvana Beta (1.4.9.10). When in integrated iTunes mode the last track has finished iTunes ends correctly but Audirvana never ends, hanging on the last few seconds. Manual ending is necessary.

 

Software version are OS X 10.8.3 iTunes 11.0.3 and Audirvana 1.4.9.10.

 

Fixed. It will be in the next release.

 

Damien

[pl_svn]

Fixed. It will be in the next release.

 

... is this the same issue I and a few others had with iTunes 10.0.2 and A+ 1.4.9.x?

[damien78]

... is this the same issue I and a few others had with iTunes 10.0.2 and A+ 1.4.9.x?

 

Must be, there was nothing new with the new iTunes there.

[pl_svn]

Must be

 

:-) :-) :-)

[57gold]

Wonder if A+ could have its own IOS app to control playback versus relying upon iTunes integration and Remote? Hear a small but significant sound quality benefit with Playlist, but have a difficult time manipulating Playlist using the iPad that I bought to control my headless Mini with Itap VNC. Firstly, I don't understand how to use Playlist even after reading the manual and secondly, the touch screen through screen sharing is painful as I tend to "fat finger" stuff.

 

As someone who has never written a line of code, or whatever software writers call the process of their craft, I am not sure if this a big ask or not.

[Cycleman]

Wonder if A+ could have its own IOS app to control playback versus relying upon iTunes integration and Remote? Hear a small but significant sound quality benefit with Playlist, but have a difficult time manipulating Playlist using the iPad that I bought to control my headless Mini with Itap VNC. Firstly, I don't understand how to use Playlist even after reading the manual and secondly, the touch screen through screen sharing is painful as I tend to "fat finger" stuff.

 

As someone who has never written a line of code, or whatever software writers call the process of their craft, I am not sure if this a big ask or not.

 

Oh, I've tried a VNC app on my iPad to control my headless Mini, and it's a huge PITA...even with slender fingers.

 

The only good way to create playlists for a headless Mac is on another Mac, using the OS screen sharing function. Then it's easy: Uncheck "iTunes Integrated Mode" in the Audirvana Plus menu, and a blank playlist will appear. At that point, you can add tracks to that blank playlist. Or if you're not creating a playlist at that time, you can open a saved playlist.

 

One easy way to add tracks, in my experience, is by having iTunes open -- even though integration is off -- and simply drag and drop either tracks or whole albums. Actually, I like to make whole albums into playlists, and save each playlist separately. (Then I quit iTunes before actually playing a playlist.)

 

But the whole setup really is much easier with a second, non-headless Mac. And then play time is much easier with a $15 or $20 Apple IR remote (those prices on Amazon), which at least lets me start, stop, pause and go track forward and back on an already opened playlist on my headless Mini.

 

HTH

 

Dave, who has the impression that an iPad or iPhone controller app for A+ shouldn't be that difficult for someone who can create a computer application as elegant and full-featured as A+ itself -- however Damien might not have time -- and also because it seems that the plethora of mobile apps is enabled simply because they are far simpler to code than computer apps

[Jud]

One easy way to add tracks, in my experience, is by having iTunes open -- even though integration is off -- and simply drag and drop either tracks or whole albums. Actually, I like to make whole albums into playlists, and save each playlist separately. (Then I quit iTunes before actually playing a playlist.)

 

 

A+ can see iTunes' music library without iTunes being open, so another way to add tracks is to click the plus sign below Audirvana's playlist and double-click on "Music" in the view of discs/libraries that opens up. Then just highlight and double-click as many tracks as you want to add. (Cmd-A to select all and double-clicking will add all tracks known to iTunes into the playlist. Then selecting shuffle play in Audirvana Plus will allow you to be lazy and just listen to music, or is great for burning in new equipment. And BTW, for those using XLD to rip or convert, there's an "Add to iTunes" checkbox that will put everything in iTunes automagically, so you can rip, select, and play in A+ without ever opening iTunes itself.)

[57gold]

Usually have my Mac Book in music room, and have screen shared with Mini before. Pretty simple and better than VNC with iPad.

 

The iPad/headless Mini approach with Remote is such an elegant music access solution...if only I hadn't tried Playlist!!!

[brlawyer]

I agree completely.

 

I also have a suggestion for Damien. Given that Audirvana sounds better in playlist mode (there's a thread on the subject), maybe Damien can write an iOS/Android remote control app for A+ and sell it separately like Fidelia does. I'd certainly pay for a remote app add-on as the iPad VNC solution I'm using now is really clunky.

 

How is that even possible? A+ has ALWAYS advertised that Integrated Mode simply uses iTunes for library management, but that the sound playback is totally done outside iTunes. I call this BS.

[Superdad]

How is that even possible? A+ has ALWAYS advertised that Integrated Mode simply uses iTunes for library management, but that the sound playback is totally done outside iTunes. I call this BS.

 

You might want to read the other thread about this: http://www.computeraudiophile.com/f11-software/audirvana-minus-itunes-integrated-mode-%3D-16022/

 

 

Since you are so quick to call "BS", allow me to quote one of your own earlier posts back to you:

 

"I am fine with my choices, and that's why I won't use AUnits - however, we should all stick to some intellectual honesty here. Once more, the MAIN argument for buying A+ and related software has ALWAYS been towards playing bitperfect/untainted music. So either you admit that this essential premise means nothing and we should all go back to iTunes, or you accept the fact that these so-called audiophile players stick to what they are meant to do."

 

From a convenience standpoint, nobody is terribly happy about the fact (and it is absolutely a fact on a really good system) that A+ sounds better in standalone mode. And for a lot of music--especially in the background or when surfing through a collection--I still use integrated mode. But when I really listen to be transported, iTunes gets turned off. And it is not about processor load.

[Cycleman]

A+ can see iTunes' music library without iTunes being open, so another way to add tracks is to click the plus sign below Audirvana's playlist and double-click on "Music" in the view of discs/libraries that opens up. Then just highlight and double-click as many tracks as you want to add.

 

The benefit of one way over another: Do you prefer having visual reminders, such as album covers, when choosing tracks or albums for a playlist? Or is pure text alone enough?

 

And BTW, for those using XLD to rip or convert, there's an "Add to iTunes" checkbox that will put everything in iTunes automagically, so you can rip, select, and play in A+ without ever opening iTunes itself.)

 

However, with the various Doug Adams utilities for iTunes -- all of which depend on iTunes -- editing tag info, copying tag info, and other non-music manipulations can often be easier in iTunes than other Mac venues.

 

F'rinstance, I find his search-and-replace utility -- one that works on most of the important tag categories -- saves me tons of time in my tag editing.

 

Dave, who tends to edit tags before the actual music file import unless the music files have been imported from XLD

[brlawyer]

You might want to read the other thread about this: http://www.computeraudiophile.com/f11-software/audirvana-minus-itunes-integrated-mode-%3D-16022/

 

 

Since you are so quick to call "BS", allow me to quote one of your own earlier posts back to you:

 

"I am fine with my choices, and that's why I won't use AUnits - however, we should all stick to some intellectual honesty here. Once more, the MAIN argument for buying A+ and related software has ALWAYS been towards playing bitperfect/untainted music. So either you admit that this essential premise means nothing and we should all go back to iTunes, or you accept the fact that these so-called audiophile players stick to what they are meant to do."

 

From a convenience standpoint, nobody is terribly happy about the fact (and it is absolutely a fact on a really good system) that A+ sounds better in standalone mode. And for a lot of music--especially in the background or when surfing through a collection--I still use integrated mode. But when I really listen to be transported, iTunes gets turned off. And it is not about processor load.

 

This has absolutely nothing to do with one of my own posts - what shocks me (and reeks of misleading advertisement) is that what has always been said about Integrated Mode is simply untrue, then.

 

I look forward to hearing Damien's own explanation if there is, indeed, any difference in sound quality between IM and non-IM. The thread you linked to is NOT conclusive about that - in fact, people seem to report different results based on different software versions.

 

P.s.: I have just tested both modes and can't hear any difference for now - perhaps the issue is NOT that non-IM is sonically better. It may simply be that Macs with relatively lower processing power may struggle to deliver the expected quality under IM if subjected to some processor stress...since my iMac has an i7/16GB of RAM and never goes beyond 3% of processor usage under A+, I may not be able to hear any difference at all.

[Jud]

How is that even possible? A+ has ALWAYS advertised that Integrated Mode simply uses iTunes for library management, but that the sound playback is totally done outside iTunes. I call this BS.

 

Oh, you mean like in the preference settings that allow you, in so many words, to turn off integrated mode for better sound? That kinda seems like less than "ALWAYS" to me. Since A+ doesn't actually advertise, putting that type of notice right in the UI of the application is as effective a method as possible to get the point across.

 

As a fellow attorney I've got to ask whether you are always so quick with accusations and so careless with facts.

 

Edit: Sorry, ALWAYS so quick....

[brlawyer]

Oh, you mean like in the preference settings that allow you, in so many words, to turn off integrated mode for better sound? That kinda seems like less than "ALWAYS" to me. Since A+ doesn't actually advertise, putting that type of notice right in the UI of the application is as effective a method as possible to get the point across.

 

As a fellow attorney I've got to ask whether you are always so quick with accusations and so careless with facts.

 

Edit: Sorry, ALWAYS so quick....

 

If you are a fellow attorney, you should at least think before posting such careless remarks.

 

Just read the damn A+ manual as well as any other related documentation on it which says, and has ALWAYS said, that audio treatment under IM is exactly the same as PL mode, with the only exception being library management access - in other words, audio is completely taken over by A+ even under IM.

 

If the above (same quality in both modes) is NOT true, then we are simply talking about misleading advertisement. I look forward to hearing Damien's explanation in this regard.

 

Edit: Just to be clear, I am talking about Integer Mode in both cases.

[Jud]

 

The benefit of one way over another: Do you prefer having visual reminders, such as album covers, when choosing tracks or albums for a playlist? Or is pure text alone enough?

 

Hey Dave.

 

Text alone is good enough - guess I've never used integrated mode at all, or iTunes itself very much, so I've probably trained my brain to respond to the text and haven't learned any dependence on cover images.

 

However, with the various Doug Adams utilities for iTunes -- all of which depend on iTunes -- editing tag info, copying tag info, and other non-music manipulations can often be easier in iTunes than other Mac venues.

 

F'rinstance, I find his search-and-replace utility -- one that works on most of the important tag categories -- saves me tons of time in my tag editing.

 

Dave, who tends to edit tags before the actual music file import unless the music files have been imported from XLD

 

Since I do nearly all my importing with XLD (including downloads - HDTracks' offer of aiff as well as flac files kind of messed this up, b/c I used to have XLD do the flac -> aiff conversion), I very fortunately haven't had to do a lot of tag editing.

[Cycleman]

Text alone is good enough - guess I've never used integrated mode at all, or iTunes itself very much, so I've probably trained my brain to respond to the text and haven't learned any dependence on cover images.

 

And that's one of the things I love about Audirvana Plus. Good software does not know ahead of time who is going to use it, and how they might best like to use it. Therefore, good software typically gives users more than one way to accomplish the same results.

 

So, visual or text? So it's not about dependence on text or images. Instead, A+ says "Your choice!"

 

Since I do nearly all my importing with XLD (including downloads - HDTracks' offer of aiff as well as flac files kind of messed this up, b/c I used to have XLD do the flac -> aiff conversion), I very fortunately haven't had to do a lot of tag editing.

 

Well, I find that all three sources of meta data -- XLD, iTunes and HDTracks -- don't always do tags the way I want them for my system.

 

Again, good software gives choice. And easy tag editing is a form of choice, IMNSHO.

 

Smiles!

 

Dave, who uses both iTunes covers and Finder text cues to add tracks to A+ Playlists depending on his mood and his goals

[Jud]

If you are a fellow attorney, you should at least think before posting such careless remarks.

 

Just read the damn A+ manual as well as any other related documentation on it which says, and has ALWAYS said, that audio treatment under IM is exactly the same as PL mode, with the only exception being library management access - in other words, audio is completely taken over by A+ even under IM.

 

If the above (same quality in both modes) is NOT true, then we are simply talking about misleading advertisement. I look forward to hearing Damien's explanation in this regard.

 

Edit: Just to be clear, I am talking about Integer Mode in both cases.

 

I'll take a look at the manual when I get home, if I have time. Meanwhile - care to specify what "any other related documentation" is (for which Damien is personally responsible, naturally)?

 

Regarding "advertisement" - to quote Princess Bride: "You keep using that word. I do not think it means what you think it means."

[brlawyer]

I'll take a look at the manual when I get home, if I have time. Meanwhile - care to specify what "any other related documentation" is (for which Damien is personally responsible, naturally)?

 

Regarding "advertisement" - to quote Princess Bride: "You keep using that word. I do not think it means what you think it means."

 

I will try to keep a respectful tone here and avoid engaging in flame wars - I am talking about the Oxford definition of "advertisement" as follows:

 

"anoticeorannouncement in a public mediumpromoting a product, service, orevent or publicizing a job vacancy"

 

Its thesaurus also refers to it (and this is more in line with what I mean here) as "announcement, notice; commercial, infomercial,promotion, endorsement, blurb, write-up; poster, leaflet,pamphlet, flyer, bill, handbill, handout, fact sheet,circular, bulletin, brochure, sign, placard, junk mail"

 

So your not-so-disguised irony or perhaps intended "correction" is not necessary here. In fact, it may be that you're not at all familiar with the concept of "misleading advertisement", especially if you come from the US where statutory consumer rights are not exactly the norm.

 

In summary, I am simply saying that, whenever talking about IM, Damien has always stated that audio control remains completely with A+ (particularly under Direct/Integer modes, of course). In fact, nowhere in that manual does he state that Playlist improves sound quality, nor is this mentioned in its tips for improving quality such as SysOptimizer, iTunes and Setup.

 

IF that is the case, he must clearly admit that possibility and stop telling its customers that IM refers only to library management...that's all.

 

P.s.: by "related documentation" I meant his paper entitled "Beyond bit-perfect (...)", where he explains the advantages of Integer Mode (which, once more, is active in both IM and non-IM scenarios).

[Jud]

I will try to keep a respectful tone here and avoid engaging in flame wars - I am talking about the Oxford definition of "advertisement" as follows:

 

"anoticeorannouncement in a public mediumpromoting a product, service, orevent or publicizing a job vacancy"

 

Its thesaurus also refers to it (and this is more in line with what I mean here) as "announcement, notice; commercial, infomercial,promotion, endorsement, blurb, write-up; poster, leaflet,pamphlet, flyer, bill, handbill, handout, fact sheet,circular, bulletin, brochure, sign, placard, junk mail"

 

So your not-so-disguised irony or perhaps intended "correction" is not necessary here.

 

Apart from the fact Chris would not allow it, in nearly 3000 posts I haven't yet engaged in anything resembling flame wars here, and don't intend to start now. With regard to keeping a respectful tone, I think that's a bit late after repeatedly accusing Damien of "misleading advertisement," and now referring to "statutory consumer rights."

 

In fact, it may be that you're not at all familiar with the concept of "misleading advertisement", especially if you come from the US where statutory consumer rights are not exactly the norm.

 

 

"Not exactly the norm"? Sorry, I really have no idea what you're referring to. But any discussion of state and federal consumer law in the US is (I certainly hope) well outside the topic of Audirvana Plus 1.5 Beta in particular and the computer audio hobby as a topic of these forums generally, so I am perfectly willing to say no more about it.

 

In summary, I am simply saying that, whenever talking about IM, Damien has always stated that audio control remains completely with A+ (particularly under Direct/Integer modes, of course). In fact, nowhere in that manual does he state that Playlist improves sound quality, nor is this mentioned in its tips for improving quality such as SysOptimizer, iTunes and Setup.

 

 

I won't have access to the exact language of the tips in the manual for using these items until I'm home, but the fact that not using iTunes integration improves sound quality is referenced in the UI itself. Sound quality of playlist mode versus convenience of integrated mode has been a topic of discussion in this forum ever since the ability to integrate with iTunes was first included in Audirvana. People (other than yourself) seem to be getting this information somewhere, which would be quite an odd thing if there was this unmitigated insistence on the sound quality equivalence of the two modes which no one but you seems to have got out of the UI and accompanying documentation (even folks who have commented that they can't hear a difference between the two modes have never said "just as Damien says" or anything equivalent).

 

IF that is the case, he must clearly admit that possibility and stop telling its customers that IM refers only to library management...that's all.

 

 

He already has clearly referred not only to the possibility, but to the fact that playlist mode will provide superior sound quality, right in the UI of the application. Is there some reason you continue to ignore this?

 

P.s.: by "related documentation" I meant his paper entitled "Beyond bit-perfect (...)", where he explains the advantages of Integer Mode (which, once more, is active in both IM and non-IM scenarios).

 

Ah, so the white paper entitled "Beyond Bit Perfect...," taken by you in previous comments to establish that Damien was saying the intent of Audirvana was to attain better sound by keeping things bit perfect (that little word "beyond" in the title having somehow gotten lost in the translation, apparently) is now supposed to be a vehicle for alerting people to the audible impact of iTunes integration. Neat trick that would be, since if I remember correctly, the article preceded iTunes integration capability in Audirvana.

[Freann]

Audirvana in iTunes mode – can’t seem to find it now, but I think Damien explained it like this:

You instruct iTunes what file to play. Audirvana then “listens” to iTunes and plays the exact same file. Audirvana then discards the output from iTunes and send only its own stream to the output/DAC.

 

 

Is this correct? If so, it might explain a thing or two.

[Superdad]

Let's chill guys: You are both mildly right and mildly wrong. I just reread the entire current A+ manual.

a) Nowhere does it state that better sound will be had in "Playlist" mode;

b) Nowhere does it claim anywhere that processing and sound are exactly the same between the two modes;

c) Turning on/off iTunes Integrated Mode is not part of A+ Preferences settings--it is an option under the Audirvana Plus menu.

 

I don't know the development history of Audirvana, but it would seem logical to conclude that "Playlist" mode--often referred to in the manual as "Classic" mode--came into existence in the product before Integrated mode. And given how hard a time all of the purity-player middleware s/w developers have had in making iTunes cooperate with their products (or vis versa), I can understand why most of them have a standalone mode. I suppose that if they could: a) insure perfect operation with iTunes; and b) exact same sonic performance in integrated mode-- then they would not need to spend the time and effort reinventing the wheel with their own interface for library and playlists.

 

We could argue all day about what we wish would be. But that won't change what presently is. Perhaps Damien will find a way to get iTunes Integrated mode to sound every bit as good as Playlist mode. And perhaps the difference is not discernible or significant enough for some users to be willing to give up the convenience--and that is okay. A+ does at least offer 3 methods of getting tracks into its playlists, and the sorting, etc. are being improved. It even allows for direct playback of FLAC files, something missing in iTunes--although A+ helps make that possible as well.

 

So I think the glass is way more than half full.

[brlawyer]

Let's chill guys: You are both mildly right and mildly wrong. I just reread the entire current A+ manual.

a) Nowhere does it state that better sound will be had in "Playlist" mode;

b) Nowhere does it claim anywhere that processing and sound are exactly the same between the two modes;

c) Turning on/off iTunes Integrated Mode is not part of A+ Preferences settings--it is an option under the Audirvana Plus menu.

 

I don't know the development history of Audirvana, but it would seem logical to conclude that "Playlist" mode--often referred to in the manual as "Classic" mode--came into existence in the product before Integrated mode. And given how hard a time all of the purity-player middleware s/w developers have had in making iTunes cooperate with their products (or vis versa), I can understand why most of them have a standalone mode. I suppose that if they could: a) insure perfect operation with iTunes; and b) exact same sonic performance in integrated mode-- then they would not need to spend the time and effort reinventing the wheel with their own interface for library and playlists.

 

We could argue all day about what we wish would be. But that won't change what presently is. Perhaps Damien will find a way to get iTunes Integrated mode to sound every bit as good as Playlist mode. And perhaps the difference is not discernible or significant enough for some users to be willing to give up the convenience--and that is okay. A+ does at least offer 3 methods of getting tracks into its playlists, and the sorting, etc. are being improved. It even allows for direct playback of FLAC files, something missing in iTunes--although A+ helps make that possible as well.

 

So I think the glass is way more than half full.

 

Superdad, tks for your additional considerations - but just to be clear one more time:

 

- I am a licensed user of A+ and am, so far, happy with it (even though I admit still having a hard time noticing the "wonders" that other people talk about when referring to vastly superior sound quality);

 

- My concern here is that NOWHERE in the A+ manual is there a reference to improved SQ under the PL mode - besides, all representations made by Damien in the A+ documentation/white paper make absolutely no reference to that possibility - they simply say that, under IM, there is absolutely no audio interference from iTunes as the whole playback is captured by A+ under direct/integer modes;

 

- I have no idea what Jud is talking about when he asserts that "the fact that not using iTunes integration improves sound quality is referenced in the UI itself." NOTHING under the UI or A+ Preferences says that, and I am already using all of the optimization settings recommended by Damien (including deactivating iTunes playback completely, which is NOT the same as Playback mode) - I am ready to stand corrected, of course;

- My simple request: that Damien explain whether/why/how this SQ difference may be true, that's all; and that in future versions of the documentation, he CLEARLY indicate that. Because if he DOES so, I will be more than willing to try out PL mode just in case.

 

Having said that, in my own testing with the B&W 685s, Icon HDP DAC and Denon amp, no SQ difference has been noticed so far; but my ears may be failing me anyway.

 

Thanks again.

[Jud]

Let's chill guys:

 

Happy to. Thanks for the wise words.

 

You are both mildly right and mildly wrong.

 

 

At least it is only mildly this time!

 

 

c) Turning on/off iTunes Integrated Mode is not part of A+ Preferences settings--it is an option under the Audirvana Plus menu.

 

 

The prefs settings I'm referring to are checkboxes to turn on or off various iTunes functions, "on" for convenience, "off," as the language in the prefs page for those settings explicitly mentions, for best sound quality.

 

I don't know the development history of Audirvana, but it would seem logical to conclude that "Playlist" mode--often referred to in the manual as "Classic" mode--came into existence in the product before Integrated mode.

 

I do. It did.

 

So I think the glass is way more than half full.

 

Agreed. Damien works quite hard to minimize any negative impact on the sound that might result from implementation of the features customers have asked for.

[Spinder00]

Does anyone else have the problem that Spotlight seems to remain deactivated even after quitting Audirvana beta?

 

I've also got it, even with last commercial A+ version. Now I've deactivated this option form optimising system, so no problem again