HQPlayer's Network Audio Adapter

[Miska]

Just to reiterate/ convey CuBox experience, the CuBox does not like "fast" networks and thus does not work as an NAA in mine and others experience.

 

If there is a fix/workaround (without using another switch) I would be very interested in that info

 

I have not seen any problems. But one problem (also applies to microRendu) that was discovered after lot of discussion here and on Roon forum was smart (managed) switches that had ethernet flow control (IEEE 802.3x) disabled. Practically meaning that they were stripping out the flow control packets and pushing data faster to CuBox/microRendu than it could accept. Enabling the flow control support fixes the problem.

 

My HP managed switch for example had flow control enabled by default. Cisco however seems to have opposite default at least in some products.

 

Most dumb switches pass through the flow control packets just fine. There of course could still be some dumb hardware that strips out or otherwise don't obey the flow control packets. Sometime dumb switches also do strange stuff, I had one dumb gigabit switch that wasn't passing through all multicast traffic. It was passing the multicast packets HQPlayer uses with NAA, but didn't pass the ones used for UPnP. As end result, none of the UPnP renderers could be reached through it. I was quite surprised to find this out and took a while of network debugging to figure out where the problem was...

[scan80269]

Hi Miska,

 

I just updated 64-bit networkaudiod from 3.4.0 to 3.4.2 on my NUC5PPYH NAA (running Windows Server 2012 R2 diskless & headless) and now every time I start a track on the HQPlayer PC, networkaudiod on the NAA crashes. The issue is 100% repeatable. I took networkaudiod back to 3.4.0 and everything works again. I'm using networkaudiod in conjunction with ASIO4All 2.13 as there is no ASIO driver for my KEF X300A speakers (USB input).

 

Thanks for any help you can provide.

[Foggie]

With my home network, spec'd as GB Ethernet (copper), CuBoxTV (the most economical way I found to buy a quad-core CuBox-i) works absolutely perfectly as an NAA. For several months it has worked exactly as the desktop installation of HQPlayer it is streaming from.

 

I am not necessarily saying this for bogi's benefit, since it doesn't meet some of his other criteria, but for anyone else who wants a simple and easy way to do NAA, this is great. It is completely trouble-free compared to the two BeagleBone boards I tried. Of course I am sure this is all quite system dependent; I don't have optical Ethernet installed, for example. I've also got a home mesh network with three eero routers, so there may be something to that.

 

Hmm interesting. Good to hear it's working in your setup. The only way I could get mine to work was using a dumb switch running at 100mb.

 

I just moved to a new home and dug out my CuBox over the holiday, used Rufus to apply the NAA image, hooked it up and no go (relevancy of new place is it's been awhile) .

 

Didn't try any tricks to make it work since I tried sev things previously in old place without luck.

 

Anyway, its prob system dependent, so I'm on the hunt for a NAA.

 

 

Sent from my iPhone using Computer Audiophile

[Miska]

I just moved to a new home and dug out my CuBox over the holiday, used Rufus to apply the NAA image, hooked it up and no go (relevancy of new place is it's been awhile) .

 

Didn't try any tricks to make it work since I tried sev things previously in old place without luck.

 

If your switch (or whatever is between HQPlayer and NAA) is configurable, check it's configuration to see if there's option for the said flow control feature and make sure it is enabled... It helps with any protocol and device that cannot keep up with gigabit speeds, like for example WiFi access point...

[Foggie]

If your switch (or whatever is between HQPlayer and NAA) is configurable, check it's configuration to see if there's option for the said flow control feature and make sure it is enabled... It helps with any protocol and device that cannot keep up with gigabit speeds, like for example WiFi access point...

 

I forget the model (tplink with fiber) but it is a mng switch and almost positive flow control is enabled. I'll double check

 

 

Sent from my iPhone using Computer Audiophile

[Foggie]

I forget the model (tplink with fiber) but it is a mng switch and almost positive flow control is enabled. I'll double check

 

 

Sent from my iPhone using Computer Audiophile

 

Just reporting back, flow and snooping were set

[ferenc]

I am using this small, Windows Home micro PC since early December and it works absolutely well. Did not switch it off at all since I configured it.

 

iFi iDSD micro runs from it.

 

Xtreamer Winbox

 

149 Euro. But comes from a Korean company. You may need to pay customs/duties, VAT, etc depending on the local rules.

 

 

Thanks, I am still considering possible choices. i3 may be too 'heavy' for the purpose. Lower power consuming Atom processors may spread less noise to audio system and substituting their power supply may be easier and cheaper.

 

On the other side, I want to experiment also with other available streaming options and uses. Maybe the small computer could be used also for video streaming. It could be also multiboot system, I can try also some Linux solutions. It's for experimenting, playing, comparing.

 

Simply I would like to combine just enough processing power but not too much power consumption and thus noise.

 

I found for example these two with some reviews - according to reviews they are OK also for video, and they are still of low consumption - both use 5V 2A power supplies:

 

1) for $100

Cenovo MINI PC 2 Windows10 Intel Cherry Trail Z8300 Smart Mini PC

 

Cenovo Mini PC 2 Windows PC Review: So Close | Home Theatre Life

I found one Russian discussion (I'm able to read it), they don't report delivery of broken devices or malfunctioning devices, production quality seems to be OK.

 

2) for $154

Beelink BT7 Mini PC Intel Atom X7-Z8700 Quad-core Windows 64bit-206.93 Online Shopping| GearBest.com

Beelink BT7 Windows PC Review: A Step Above The Rest | Home Theatre Life

 

both 4GB RAM and 64 GB ROM + SD slot, LAN, WiFi, bluetooth, more USB slots, HDMI

the 2) has metal case, faster CPU and faster wireless, but CPU cooling contains small ventilation fan

[bogi]

ferenc, thanks for the tip! I like the metal case and 4GB RAM is also advantage. I will consider it for sure.

 

Meanwhile I found this one with very good specs for the price and positive reviews:

Chuwi HiBox Mini PC - Chuwi HiBox Z8350 4G 64G

Passive cooling but no metal body, 1Gbit Ethernet (Xstreamer is 100Mbit). The best price I found is $118, includes shipping:

CHUWI HiBox Mini PC Android 5.1 + Window 10 Dual OS 64bit-148.57 Online Shopping| GearBest.com

 

Review: https://androidtvbox.eu/chuwi-hibox-review-mini-pc-with-dual-os-powered-by-cherry-trail-processor/

Forum: CHUWI HiBox Mini PC Android 5.1 + Window 10 Dual OS 64bit - FreakTab.com

[shadowlight]

Need some help with NAA on RPi3 and PHat DAC based on PCM5102 which I am using on temporary basis while my primary DAC with Amanero is in for upgrade.

 

I have downloaded the latest version of image and I am able to see the NAA under Network Naming but it is not showing up under settings section?

 

I have not issues if I run piCorePlayer or Moode, so I am missing some setting specific to NAA. Any idea on what I need to do? I tried to ssh into to the RPI but was not successful (it is possible that SSH is not installed in the image). I am also able to ping the device ip.

 

TIA

[shadowlight]

Need some help with NAA on RPi3 and PHat DAC based on PCM5102 which I am using on temporary basis while my primary DAC with Amanero is in for upgrade.

I have downloaded the latest version of image and I am able to see the NAA under Network Naming but it is not showing up under settings section?

 

I have not issues if I run piCorePlayer or Moode, so I am missing some setting specific to NAA. Any idea on what I need to do? I tried to ssh into to the RPI but was not successful (it is possible that SSH is not installed in the image). I am also able to ping the device ip.

 

TIA

 

I should have provided additional information on the DAC in question which is Allo PianoDAC.

 

Edit: Got it to work. Had to edit config.txt file and add "dtoverlay=iqaudio-dacplus".

@Miska, any chance the image can be updated to support 384 and add support for Allo PianoDAC. Here is what piCorePlayer has it listed as in config.txt file - "dtoverlay=allo-piano-dac-pcm512x-audio"

 

Can support be added so you could ssh into the system, so it is easier to check output from alsa/proc and edit the config file using the built in text editor (vim/vi). Not a big deal if SSH cannot be added but it would be great to leverage the additional bits.

[Miska]

Can support be added so you could ssh into the system, so it is easier to check output from alsa/proc and edit the config file using the built in text editor (vim/vi). Not a big deal if SSH cannot be added but it would be great to leverage the additional bits.

 

Problem with ssh is that you'd need some initial way to login and default passwords are root of all evil. Console logins are safer, since they require physical access.

 

Best way to edit the config.txt is to just plug the SDcard to a normal computer and do it there.

[shadowlight]

Problem with ssh is that you'd need some initial way to login and default passwords are root of all evil. Console logins are safer, since they require physical access.

Best way to edit the config.txt is to just plug the SDcard to a normal computer and do it there.

That's what I figured. Any chance to update the kernel to add support for Allo Piano card and also support 384bit

[Miska]

That's what I figured. Any chance to update the kernel to add support for Allo Piano card and also support 384bit

 

I'll check it out for the next image update build.

 

Where is such DAC card available? I didn't find the manufacturer on quick find.

[shadowlight]

I'll check it out for the next image update build.

 

Where is such DAC card available? I didn't find the manufacturer on quick find.

Additional information on Allo PianoDac and Kali Reclocker.

 

Thread on diyaudio where cdsgames who I believe is one of the person behind the product.

 

Here is the blurp about piCorePlayer adding support some of the enhanced support for audio.

 

Thank you, for considering adding the support. I think the newer kernel has support for 384Kbit support on PCM5122 DAC chip.

[shadowlight]

@Miska,

 

Does the current RPi3 image have support for DSD 256 with Amanero provided you have the correct firmware on the card?

[Miska]

Does the current RPi3 image have support for DSD 256 with Amanero provided you have the correct firmware on the card?

 

Yes it should have support for the LE firmware variant. Next version will have support for both LE and BE firmware versions.

[a.dent]

Hi Miska,

I am running HQPlayer on a Mac mini i7 and NAA on a Linux (Snakeoil OS) based atom machine.

I just updated to the latest HQPlayer and NAA versions and can no longer see my DAC in the preferences window. I've tried a few commands in terminal after searching for similar problems via Google but still no luck.

What can I do?

Thanks.

[Miska]

I am running HQPlayer on a Mac mini i7 and NAA on a Linux (Snakeoil OS) based atom machine.

I just updated to the latest HQPlayer and NAA versions and can no longer see my DAC in the preferences window. I've tried a few commands in terminal after searching for similar problems via Google but still no luck.

 

Remember to check that macOS firewall is not blocking NAA traffic! (if it asks you when you start HQPlayer, you are already lost) At least for me, the firewall gets silently re-enabled every now and then.

 

What version of HQPlayer did you have before? There are no NAA related changes between 3.14.x and 3.15. Last time the NAA support was touched on Oct 3rd 2016. Is your NAA software module up to date, 3.4.2 being latest but anything fairly recent should work.

 

You could check what the networkaudiod outputs on your NAA system, if it hears the discovery from HQPlayer, etc.

[a.dent]

Remember to check that macOS firewall is not blocking NAA traffic! (if it asks you when you start HQPlayer, you are already lost) At least for me, the firewall gets silently re-enabled every now and then.

 

What version of HQPlayer did you have before? There are no NAA related changes between 3.14.x and 3.15. Last time the NAA support was touched on Oct 3rd 2016. Is your NAA software module up to date, 3.4.2 being latest but anything fairly recent should work.

 

You could check what the networkaudiod outputs on your NAA system, if it hears the discovery from HQPlayer, etc.

 

Firewall is definitely off.

 

I was using a really old NAA version because newer ones didn't work. I was using the previous latest HQPlayer.

 

How do I check networkaudiod outputs?

 

The developer of the Snakeoil OS Snakeoil OS - Linux For The Audiophile thought maybe as it was IPv4 there was a problem there?

 

Thanks

[a.dent]

All sorted. I know nothing about Linux so Agent Kith from Snakeoil OS guided me through the process. Snakeoil OS - Linux For The Audiophile

 

The OS was IPv4 but I changed kernels to IPv6 compatible and all is good now.

[zorntel]

Jussi,

 

I know we have discussed this in the past, but I thought I would share some recent experiences with a Roon (1.2) > HQplayer (3.15.0) > Microrendu (2.3; HQplayer 3.4.2) > IFI micro iDSD Black Label set up. As many have experienced the IFI issues a loud thump with certain versions of linux including the one used in the Sonic Orbiter and the Microrendu when using the HQplayer NAA (Jesus R assures me that it only does this with the HQplayer NAA).

 

Recently I have started upsampling to DSD512 (and I'm never going back). I get fantastic results with the ASIO driver going directly (or actually through an Adnaco fiber to usb converter) to the IFI. PCM and DSD all play great without a thump to the IFI...best sound of my life. Likewise, when I go to the microrendu to the IFI PCM upsamples fine to DSD512 without a thump, DSD direct also works fine without a thump, but when I upsample DSD64, 128 or 256 to DSD512 I get the thump. I wish the DSD512 didn't sound so good...but it does.

 

Any ideas what might be going on? I wish I could use the microrendu without fearing for my speaker's health! My daughter thought it was a gun shot going off tonight and dropped to the floor (11 year old dramatics).

 

Robert

[Jud]

Jussi,

 

I know we have discussed this in the past, but I thought I would share some recent experiences with a Roon (1.2) > HQplayer (3.15.0) > Microrendu (2.3; HQplayer 3.4.2) > IFI micro iDSD Black Label set up. As many have experienced the IFI issues a loud thump with certain versions of linux including the one used in the Sonic Orbiter and the Microrendu when using the HQplayer NAA (Jesus R assures me that it only does this with the HQplayer NAA).

 

Recently I have started upsampling to DSD512 (and I'm never going back). I get fantastic results with the ASIO driver going directly (or actually through an Adnaco fiber to usb converter) to the IFI. PCM and DSD all play great without a thump to the IFI...best sound of my life. Likewise, when I go to the microrendu to the IFI PCM upsamples fine to DSD512 without a thump, DSD direct also works fine without a thump, but when I upsample DSD64, 128 or 256 to DSD512 I get the thump. I wish the DSD512 didn't sound so good...but it does.

 

Any ideas what might be going on? I wish I could use the microrendu without fearing for my speaker's health! My daughter thought it was a gun shot going off tonight and dropped to the floor (11 year old dramatics).

 

Robert

 

Your research is much appreciated - I haven't upsampled DSD (my old computer would likely not be up to it anyway) and so have never experienced a huge "thump." I have heard much lower level "bumps," but never when first starting HQP and letting it play, only when stopping after a song and selecting another by clicking on it in the track list.

 

 

Sent from my iPhone using Computer Audiophile

[bogi]

I easily succeeded to setup HQPlayer NAA on Atom X5-Z8350 2GB / 32 GB Win10 Home mini PC, which I bought for 77 EUR: Z83II Mini PC Windows 10 64bit-90.77 Online Shopping| GearBest.com

 

Of course the first thing was to install ASIO driver for my Gustard DAC-X10. Then I could start to setup network connection between my notebook and the NAA mini PC.

 

I am using 4G USB modem on my notebook for internet connection and no home LAN over cables, so the LAN port of my notebook was unused. I could use it for direct gigabyte connection to NAA without any router. I simply connected my notebook and NAA with LAN cable, set fixed IP addresses 192.168.1.1 for my NAA computer and 192.168.1.2 for my notebook LAN interface (netmask 255.255.255.0 on both sides), that's all. Then after disabling firewall I could ping between them. I downloaded, unpacked and started the newest networkaudiod for Windows, currently networkaudiod-342.zip. The actual startup script I used to start the NAA daemon is networkaudiod_name.bat.

 

Last step was to setup HQPlayer. In Settings dialog I set NetworkAudioAdapter as my Backend. I tried also another backend choice NetworkAudioAdapter IPv6, they work both. Then in Tools | Network naming I found my NAA IP address, so it was visible. That was all to do to start playback via NAA.

 

At first I simply connected my DAC and NAA with Supra USB cable. I played some known tracks and I found the sound as quite nice. Then I started with my usual USB tweaks. Adding +5V LPS power injection to my Gustard DAC USB port helped a bit. For the subsequent exteriments, that +5V LPS was permanently conencted to my Gustard DAC USB port.

 

Then I started to experiment with ground connection. I added a short USB adapter cable to my Supra USB cable, which passes only DATA+ and DATA- lines. No ground, no VBUS +5V. This brought real improvement to the sound! I compared it few times and found that no ground in USB cable brings really audible benefit in my setup. Clearer sound of instruments, better separation of instruments, clearer background, less boomy bass.

 

My DAC requires ground between DAC and computer USB port. As my USB cable ground line was interrupted, I started to search the actual ground connection. When I pulled off the HDMI to DVI cable, connecting my NAA with LCD monitor, my DAC became no more visible to NAA computer. So my ground connection between NAA and DAC was leading this way:

[NAA] - HDMI to DVI cable - [LCD monitor] - monitor power cable - [monitor wall socket] [DAC wall socket] - DAC power cable - [DAC]

Then I tested yet one alternate route for ground. I connected my DAC and NAA with simple crocodile cable - I connected outer metal bodies of USB plugs on both sides. That was sufficient to make my DAC visible to my NAA without need to have my external monitor connected. It is interesting how much improvement brought leading of ground connection outside of USB cable. IMO it shows how much negative influence on DATA wires can have noise spreading through ground wire in USB cable.

 

I was already using this tweak with DATA only USB cable previously without NAA. The tweak works with my NAA in the same way as with my notebook.

 

As the last step I compared the sound between NAA setup and direct DAC connection to my notebook. In both cases with that DATA only USB cable tweak and separate ground lead. I clearly preferred the NAA solution. It brought me more clarity, better separation, it was overall improvement. I'm satisfied how the 77EUR investment helped. I never heard so clear sound from my headphone setup. I will use my NAA for sure. In my case less noisy NAA helped in comparison with my notebook.

 

I will reorganize things on my desk and connect my NAA to my DAC with the shortest possible only few centimeter long home made USB cable. I will lead data lines together as twisted pair without shield and I will lead thicker ground line separately to avoid interference between ground and DATA. It will be interesting to compare such home made short cable with my Supra USB cable.

 

I really like the current sound improvement. But I'm still curious how much the following things could help:

- 12V iPower instead of 12V/2A switching power supply, which was delivered with my mini PC

- iSilencer or iPurifier II, or both

Possibly I will order these iThings from hifina.cz, they provide free shipping to Slovakia and 14 day return policy.

[Miska]

I will reorganize things on my desk and connect my NAA to my DAC with the shortest possible only few centimeter long home made USB cable. I will lead data lines together as twisted pair without shield and I will lead thicker ground line separately to avoid interference between ground and DATA. It will be interesting to compare such home made short cable with my Supra USB cable.

 

One option is to do like I did with my AES cable, have it shielded, but connect the shield only at the sender end and not at both ends.

 

At least Supra analog cables are like that, but with the difference that there's a separate ground wire still going inside the shield. But the shield itself is only connected at the sender end. Hence the directional indication on the cable...

[lmitche]

+1 Naim has constructed their interconnect cables with only the source end of the shield connected for at least 35 years.