HQPlayer's Network Audio Adapter

[paulpaul]

I have a Win10 NAA running on i3-6100t. It is a low power CPU.

[ted_b]

Miska, could you advise me which of the 2 processors would be the best choice for Windows-based NAA: Intel Core i3-5010U / Intel Core i5-5250U ?

See also Intel Core i3-5010U vs i5-5250U

 

I'm not Miska (Jussi) but my Windows NAA is a low power Atom processor (aka Caps Carbon) with a JCAT USB card and battery-powered SSD. Its fantastic. The goal of the NAA is not big power/heavy lifting, but instead quiet minimalist design, as NAA box only runs a FIFO/buffer (networkaudiod.exe) and dac driver. I also have two other NAAs (microRendu and exaSound's Playpoint for the exaSound dacs). Both are somewhat minimalist designs.

[bibo01]

Hi Miska,

 

a friend of mine has a problem to have his NAA working properly.

He has HQP 3.13 and NAA 3.4.

Networkaudiod on mini-PC (a SBC with VIA chipset and CPU, OS Debian "stretch" 32bit) starts regularly with no eror message.

Network is working, the two systems see each other fine (I can SSH mini-PC from PC server).

DAC is obviously recognized in UAC2. If, instead of NAD, I test with Squeezelite, LMS server on PC can see it immediately and works fine...

 

On the other hand, starting NAD on mini-PC and then HQPlayer on PC Server, this one give the following message: “Failed to open audio device. Please check settings!”.

 

In Settings, if I select "NetworkAudioAdapter", I have no audio device to select.

 

What could the problem be???

[Miska]

Networkaudiod on mini-PC (a SBC with VIA chipset and CPU, OS Debian "stretch" 32bit) starts regularly with no eror message.

Network is working, the two systems see each other fine (I can SSH mini-PC from PC server).

DAC is obviously recognized in UAC2. If, instead of NAD, I test with Squeezelite, LMS server on PC can see it immediately and works fine...

 

On the other hand, starting NAD on mini-PC and then HQPlayer on PC Server, this one give the following message: “Failed to open audio device. Please check settings!”.

 

In Settings, if I select "NetworkAudioAdapter", I have no audio device to select.

 

What could the problem be???

 

It would be good to check the output trace at the NAA side, by stopping the background service and starting it manually from command line. It reports when the discovery message from HQPlayer is received and when HQPlayer contacts back. If such doesn't appear then there is likely some networking issue for one reason or the other.

[bibo01]

It would be good to check the output trace at the NAA side, by stopping the background service and starting it manually from command line. It reports when the discovery message from HQPlayer is received and when HQPlayer contacts back. If such doesn't appear then there is likely some networking issue for one reason or the other.

 

Thanks, my friend had done that already.

Anyhow, he has managed to "solve" the riddle. His Linux Debian Jessie based PC server has two networks on two NICs (eth0 & eth1). By disabling one and keeping the one connected to NAA, he was able to make HQP-NAA connection work.

However, it would be good to solve this problem. Is it possible to force HQP to interrogate both NICs (like LMS does)?

 

He was also asking, if possible, some technical details on the network communication protocol between HQP and NAA:

- how is NAD "search" on the network?

- does it directly use some broadcast?

- does it use any service like UnPnP?

- does it use TCP only or UDP too?

- who starts the connection? HQP towards NAD or (also/only) viceversa?

- what ports are used?

- etc...?

[Miska]

- how is NAD "search" on the network?

- does it directly use some broadcast?

 

Multicast, because broadcast is privileged operation and cannot be sent by normal users.

 

- does it use any service like UnPnP?

 

No, but UPnP also uses multicast as well as AirPlay, etc. So the overall concepts are not so different.

 

- does it use TCP only or UDP too?

 

Both...

 

- who starts the connection? HQP towards NAD or (also/only) viceversa?

 

HQPlayer talks to NAA.

 

- what ports are used?

 

Ports are dynamically allocated (assigned by the OS)...

[bibo01]

Multicast, because broadcast is privileged operation and cannot be sent by normal users.

 

No, but UPnP also uses multicast as well as AirPlay, etc. So the overall concepts are not so different.

 

Both...

 

HQPlayer talks to NAA.

 

Ports are dynamically allocated (assigned by the OS)...

Thanks for your reply.

 

What about my main question?

Is it possible to force HQPlayer to interrogate both NICs (like LMS does)?

Or

Will you implement this feature?

 

 

PS: a suugestion - NAD has no command line option documentation, it could have an online help or a main page.

[Miska]

Is it possible to force HQPlayer to interrogate both NICs (like LMS does)?

Or

Will you implement this feature?

 

No to both, it is up to the OS to deal with NICs and routing. Neither networkaudiod nor HQPlayer want to deal with NICs. If you want to play with multiple NICs, you need to manage the routing tables yourself...

 

NAA is supposed to be simple plug-and-play with single network interface, there is no reason to have multiple interfaces on NAA. Preferably NAA would reside inside a DAC.

 

PS: a suugestion - NAD has no command line option documentation, it could have an online help or a main page.

 

It has only two options and those only on Linux/Mac (although not really tested on Mac so likely doesn't work):

-D | --daemon daemonizes the process

-p | --pidfile enables PID file

[RRSR]

Hi, i am using NAA 3.2 for a long time without issues, now i have tried NAA 3.4 on my laptop but don't know why it doesn't work, i want to reinstall 3.2 version but i can't find where is the link to download it, the only version i found on the web was 3.4! Anyone help?

[Miska]

Hi, i am using NAA 3.2 for a long time without issues, now i have tried NAA 3.4 on my laptop but don't know why it doesn't work, i want to reinstall 3.2 version but i can't find where is the link to download it, the only version i found on the web was 3.4! Anyone help?

 

I assume you are running it on Windows? Do you have IPv6 disabled in your network settings? You can disable IPv6 in NAA 3.4 by modifying the startup batch file networkaudiod_name.bat (take the "rem" out from the beginning of the corresponding line).

[semente]

Did you start networkaudiod manually after installing?

 

R

[RRSR]

Hi Miska, i´m running NAA on Windows 7 32 bits laptop, i just changed startup batch as you said but it didn´t work, maybe this screeneshot helps you...

 

[RRSR]

I assume you are running it on Windows? Do you have IPv6 disabled in your network settings? You can disable IPv6 in NAA 3.4 by modifying the startup batch file networkaudiod_name.bat (take the "rem" out from the beginning of the corresponding line).

 

Hi Miska, i´m running NAA on Windows 7 32 bits laptop, i just changed startup batch as you said but it didn´t work, maybe this screeneshot helps you...

 

 

[Miska]

Hi Miska, i´m running NAA on Windows 7 32 bits laptop, i just changed startup batch as you said but it didn´t work, maybe this screeneshot helps you...

 

Did you also start the networkaudiod using the batch file instead of the executable directly?

[RRSR]

Did you also start the networkaudiod using the batch file instead of the executable directly?

 

Batch file open DOS screen but then closes and it doesn´t work

[RRSR]

Batch file open DOS screen but then closes and it doesn´t work

 

ok, this is very strange, i found this solution:

 

First i must open DOS mode from CMD in Windows

Then, in DOS mode, i run networkaudiod.exe manually

This Works!

But if i just go to the file location in Windows explorer and then i do double click on the file, NAA 3.4 doesn´t Works, this did not happen with 3.2 version, any ideas? how can i make it Works from Windows explorer?

[RRSR]

It Works!

finally is nonsense, only thing you must to do is to put the bath file and the .exe file in same folder , then you run the batch file and that´s all.

 

Thank you for your support Miska.

[craighartley]

I'm not Miska (Jussi) but my Windows NAA is a low power Atom processor (aka Caps Carbon) with a JCAT USB card and battery-powered SSD. Its fantastic. The goal of the NAA is not big power/heavy lifting, but instead quiet minimalist design, as NAA box only runs a FIFO/buffer (networkaudiod.exe) and dac driver. I also have two other NAAs (microRendu and exaSound's Playpoint for the exaSound dacs). Both are somewhat minimalist designs.

 

Ted, Thanks. I get the quiet minimalist point. I already have the PlayPoint for the exaSound, but was wondering about running a Windows NAA for passing on 512DSD to the T&A 8 DSD. But I want to get something as off the peg as possible and was looking at Fanless NUCs. I do worry about the USB quality though without a specialist audio card. Also, how much RAM is needed do you think?

Thanks again

Craig

[bibo01]

Miska,

 

do you know SALSA-lib?

ALSA related stuffs

https://github.com/tiwai/salsa-lib

 

SALSA-Lib - Small ALSA Library

==============================

 

GENERAL

-------

 

SALSA-Lib is a small, light-weight, hot and spicy version of the ALSA library, mainly for embedded systems with limited resources.

The library is designed to be source-level compatible with ALSA library API for limited contents. Most of function calls are inlined,

and accesses directly to the hardware via system calls. Some components like ALSA sequencer aren't supported, and most of all,

the alsa-lib plugins and configurations are completely dropped. Thus, neither dmix nor format conversion is available with SALSA-lib.

[...]

 

Could it be any use in the compilation of the various NAA images?

Can SALSA-lib have an effect on the playback?

It is used by light-weight WTF player, a derivative of Gentoo distribution.

[firedog]

Ted, Thanks. I get the quiet minimalist point. I already have the PlayPoint for the exaSound, but was wondering about running a Windows NAA for passing on 512DSD to the T&A 8 DSD. But I want to get something as off the peg as possible and was looking at Fanless NUCs. I do worry about the USB quality though without a specialist audio card. Also, how much RAM is needed do you think?

Thanks again

Craig

 

Specialist audio card: SOtM makes an external (cleanup USB connection) box that serves the same function as their internal USB cards.

 

Have you considered something like one of these as a windows NAA:

 

https://www.amazon.com/VENSMILE-Windows-Desktop-Compute-Computer/dp/B01AD8F1NE

https://www.amazon.com/Fanless-Desktop-Windows-BayTrail-Bluetooth/dp/B00SGMLN1O

https://www.amazon.com/dp/B01FS6SIUE?psc=1

https://www.amazon.com/dp/B01CJFZZ76?psc=1

 

Don't know anything about them, it's just occurred to me something like this would be good for just that purpose, as long as it had some "cleanup" between it's USB output and the USB input on the DAC.

[bibo01]

Specialist audio card: SOtM makes an external (cleanup USB connection) box that serves the same function as their internal USB cards.

 

...

Isn't SOtM external device just a hub?!

The PCI tX-USBexp is a different type of device.

[craighartley]

Specialist audio card: SOtM makes an external (cleanup USB connection) box that serves the same function as their internal USB cards.

 

Have you considered something like one of these as a windows NAA:

 

https://www.amazon.com/VENSMILE-Windows-Desktop-Compute-Computer/dp/B01AD8F1NE

https://www.amazon.com/Fanless-Desktop-Windows-BayTrail-Bluetooth/dp/B00SGMLN1O

https://www.amazon.com/dp/B01FS6SIUE?psc=1

https://www.amazon.com/dp/B01CJFZZ76?psc=1

 

Don't know anything about them, it's just occurred to me something like this would be good for just that purpose, as long as it had some "cleanup" between it's USB output and the USB input on the DAC.

 

Thanks, yes those are the kind of thing I'm now considering, although I'm in the UK so the choices available are not the same. I'm still dubious about the external USB clean-up though.

[firedog]

Isn't SOtM external device just a hub?!

The PCI tX-USBexp is a different type of device.

 

AFAIK, it is a parallel external device to the PCItx-USBexp. Performs the same function, but is designed specifically for those who can't add an internal USB card. It's called a "hub" but it's a clean USB device. Same is true for the Regen: a specially designed for audio USB hub.

 

Here, they are described as basically the same device on the same page: both called SOtM tX-USBhub, one called internal, one external:

SOtM Ultimate High Performance Audio

 

and here:

http://www.sotm-audio.com/sotmwp/english/portfolio-item/tx-usbhub/

[MHzTweaker]

I currently have a 2 channel listening system that I also use for video.

The PC is Win10 w/ Intel 6700K CPU

I store my audio and video files on a dedicated Win 2012r2 server connected via 10Gbit LC fiber

The audio video PC has a Dell RN219 10GB Ethernet card (Made by Intel)

I have an external DAC that feeds my Krell KRC-3 preamp

I have an iFi Micro USB 3.0 unit in between my PC and DAC

 

I would like to build a PC (Micro ATX) for use as a Network Audio Adapter

I would like to use the x8 PCIexpress Dell RN219 fiber Ethernet card in the NAA

I now have a dual port X520 to install in the Audio/Theater PC.

I would use the dual port X520 Ethernet card to receive data from my server and output from the 2nd fiber port to the NAA because I am out of 10GB fiber ports on my switch.

I am thinking of an ASRock Q1900M as my NAA motherboard

 

OKay... I know nothing about an NAA. I have no idea where to begin. I assume the NAA runs something open source.

I need to be able to listen to music and output from Kodi (XBMC) to the NAA.

 

Can I do this? I mainly use Foobar2000 for audio.

What does the NAA run and where do I get it?

How do I output Kodi to the NAA?

 

thanks

[ted_b]

I currently have a 2 channel listening system that I also use for video.

The PC is Win10 w/ Intel 6700K CPU

I store my audio and video files on a dedicated Win 2012r2 server connected via 10Gbit LC fiber

The audio video PC has a Dell RN219 10GB Ethernet card (Made by Intel)

I have an external DAC that feeds my Krell KRC-3 preamp

I have an iFi Micro USB 3.0 unit in between my PC and DAC

 

I would like to build a PC (Micro ATX) for use as a Network Audio Adapter

I would like to use the x8 PCIexpress Dell RN219 fiber Ethernet card in the NAA

I now have a dual port X520 to install in the Audio/Theater PC.

I would use the dual port X520 Ethernet card to receive data from my server and output from the 2nd fiber port to the NAA because I am out of 10GB fiber ports on my switch.

I am thinking of an ASRock Q1900M as my NAA motherboard

 

OKay... I know nothing about an NAA. I have no idea where to begin. I assume the NAA runs something open source.

I need to be able to listen to music and output from Kodi (XBMC) to the NAA.

 

Can I do this? I mainly use Foobar2000 for audio.

What does the NAA run and where do I get it?

How do I output Kodi to the NAA?

 

thanks

 

NAA is a back end buffer for HQPlayer, period. It is not used in any other player.