Rpi Volumio alternatives for large libraries

[Mike Rubin]

Hello. My name is Mike and I am a music hoarder.  

 

I have approximately 7tb of music, much of which I never will hear before I leave this mortal coil.

 

As a a backup to my main system, I have a Raspberry Pi4 with 4gb RAM with Volumio free version installed as a streamer inside my Okto Stereo 8 DAC's case.  My NAS Is mounted to it.  It's a nice Plan B for when the rest of my system isn't cooperative and I don't feel like troubleshooting ten devices in the wired signal path.  Unfortunately, however, my collection has overwhelmed Volumio and brought it to its knees.  It no longer can even display my library items.

 

To see if a fresh start would make a difference, I did a factory reset of my Volumio installation.  It has not helped and it's introduced other issues, such as a sudden inability to use plugins.

 

I would like to try another Pi music player if there is one that can manage my collection.  If there isn't one, I am prepared to use Ropieee and let the Pi be an endpoint for HQPlayer and JRiver Media Center.  That's not preferable, though, because the value of this Plan B to me is that I usually can use it easily even when my usual server-endpoint chain is acting up.  Putting it into the same chain isn't quite as appealing.

 

The only other Pi player that I know is Moode, but I gather that it has the same base code as Volumio, so may have the same large library limitations. It also seems to require configuration using SSH in addition to the GUI.  I know no linux, so prefer not to have to mess around in the terminal.  

 

Are there other Pi player products that I should audition for this setup?  DSD playback capability is essential.

 

Thanks for any help you can offer.

[Mike Rubin]

Forgot to add that I am open to LMS as an alternative to a UPnP/DLNA player.  Have any of you used PiCorePlayer?  Doesn't look too crazy daunting....

[stefano_mbp]

1 minute ago, Mike Rubin said:

Have any of you used PiCorePlayer

Hi Mike, PiCorePlayer is a good alternative and “quite” easy to setup, you need anyway to “fight” with a steep learning curve

But reading about your setup it seems that your nas and the Okto must be working anyway, they are the center of your system, therefore I suggest to go with RoPieee with a UPNP setup.

This is the easiest setup to manage and maintain, you just need to have Minimserver running on your nas, configure RoPieee as a UPNP renderer and use a upnp control app on your smartphone/tablet like JPlay for iOS (are you still using it?), MConnect Player or Bubbleupnp (Android only)

Hope this can help

[Mike Rubin]

24 minutes ago, stefano_mbp said:

Hi Mike, PiCorePlayer is a good alternative and “quite” easy to setup, you need anyway to “fight” with a steep learning curve

But reading about your setup it seems that your nas and the Okto must be working anyway, they are the center of your system, therefore I suggest to go with RoPieee with a UPNP setup.

This is the easiest setup to manage and maintain, you just need to have Minimserver running on your nas, configure RoPieee as a UPNP renderer and use a upnp control app on your smartphone/tablet like JPlay for iOS (are you still using it?), MConnect Player or Bubbleupnp (Android only)

Hope this can help

Thank you, Stefano.  

 

Ropieee is my fallback position.  As I explained, however, I want to have available a simplified signal path for when my UPnP/DLNA/HQP/Roon/LMS options aren't working due to some glitch in my NUC, desktop computer, NAS, router, switch, FMC's, or rendu that's going to take me 15 minutes of troubleshooting with reboots and disconnecting from power.  By using a server/controller connected directly to the DAC, I can avoid issues and get right back to playing music so long as the problem isn't with the router, NAS, or switch.

 

I didn't renew my JPlay for iOS subscription. I never could get the JRiver album art display anomalies worked out.

[The Computer Audiophile]

Hi Mike, have you determined the issue is with Volumio rather than the Pi? Perhaps a Pi5 with 8GB of RAM would help. 

[stefano_mbp]

1 hour ago, The Computer Audiophile said:

Perhaps a Pi5 with 8GB of RAM

… it’s inside the Okto …

[The Computer Audiophile]

54 minutes ago, stefano_mbp said:

… it’s inside the Okto …

Ah yes. Thanks for the reminder. 
 

I wonder if Rpi5 would work though. Okto has instructions for adding a Pi in the manual and perhaps they aren’t upgraded to mention the 5. 
 

 

[stefano_mbp]

6 minutes ago, The Computer Audiophile said:

Ah yes. Thanks for the reminder. 
 

I wonder if Rpi5 would work though. Okto has instructions for adding a Pi in the manual and perhaps they aren’t upgraded to mention the 5. 
 

 

It would be interesting to know how much ram has the Okto rpi4, if just 1GB or 2GB that could be the bottleneck and maybe the pi4 8GB version could solve the issue

[DuckToller]

Hi Mike,

I feel for you!
I may assume there are a couple of music lovers in the networked music domain that share your pain.

Imho, looking to cover your library completely with one single solution may prove costly and time consuming. Therefore I won't suggest any software or hardware to fiy your problem:
- I would start in a pareto style (20/80) of way to minimize the library, after having already deducted the biggest files (do only top 5 %) for manual selection.
- If you are anyway upsampling with HQP, you may need to decide if you need to have music in the most space demanding formats?
- With 1.5-2 TB you may be even completely busy with listening for your foreseeable future.
- There might come some interest in feeding a bit more at times, when you could use a portable source for USB input at the integrated RPI. just copy your desired files there ... in case you remember them ;-)

This may demand some time and effort, but it helps as well to keep unwanted garbage away from your music system.
To be fair, if you can't think about and search for it, you may not really need it somewhere near your DAC,  so to speak :-)
Good luck, Tom

[botrytis]

Well, Volumio does not like large libraries either. I have a 5.6 TB library and Volumio only recognized 3 TB of the whole library. Working with people on their official forums, after 1.5 years, proved no one had ideas to why to didn't recognize the whole library.

 

I understand the OP's frustration.

[Mike Rubin]

2 hours ago, stefano_mbp said:

It would be interesting to know how much ram has the Okto rpi4, if just 1GB or 2GB that could be the bottleneck and maybe the pi4 8GB version could solve the issue

Stefano, it's a 4 gb Pi 4.  Absolutely could be the bottleneck.  I can look into increasing the RAM.

[Mike Rubin]

4 hours ago, The Computer Audiophile said:

Hi Mike, have you determined the issue is with Volumio rather than the Pi? Perhaps a Pi5 with 8GB of RAM would help. 

Chris, the issue definitely could be with the Pi 4.  It's not exactly the Maserati of media devices.  
 

I can ask Okto if the Pi 5 is swappable for the 4.

[The Computer Audiophile]

3 minutes ago, Mike Rubin said:

I can ask Okto if the Pi 5 is swappable for the 4.

That would be good to know. If it's capable of working with the 5, it's a cheap upgrade. 

[stefano_mbp]

8 minutes ago, Mike Rubin said:

I can ask Okto if the Pi 5 is swappable for the 4.

Check that Volumio is available on rpi5 too

[Mike Rubin]

15 minutes ago, stefano_mbp said:

Check that Volumio is available on rpi5 too

Good point. The Volumio website is very vague about this.

[botrytis]

2 hours ago, stefano_mbp said:

Check that Volumio is available on rpi5 too

 

Heck, Volumio wouldn't work on my Ryzen 9 4900H. It is how Volumio is coded, not the processor. That was on a 16 GB memory mini-PC.

[stefano_mbp]

2 minutes ago, botrytis said:

 

Heck, Volumio wouldn't work on my Ryzen 9 4900H. It is how Volumio is coded, not the processor. That was on a 16 GB memory mini-PC.

It’s quite different , as of now there aren’t rpi4 apps (like RoPieee, HQPlayer …) that can run on rpi5 because, as I could understand, the boot loader is different … therefore we’ll have to wait that the specific rpi5 is out

[DuckToller]

I just noticed the recent version of MoOde by Tim Curtis this evening
https://github.com/moode-player/moode/releases

Looked up posts about library capacity. Here's a quote:
"

BigScaryTiger Wrote: Well my moOde library has 110,786 files in in apparently.  99.98% of those will be lossless and quite a number of those are now 24bit.  
I don't have any unreasonable issue with responsiveness.  #justsaying

This is good info,  what is your hardware?

Raspberry Pi 3 Model B+  that connects to a Buffalo LS220D0602-EU 6TB LinkStation 220D 2 Bay Desktop NAS "

Worth a shot ?

[botrytis]

3 minutes ago, stefano_mbp said:

It’s quite different , as of now there aren’t rpi4 apps (like RoPieee, HQPlayer …) that can run on rpi5 because, as I could understand, the boot loader is different … therefore we’ll have to wait that the specific rpi5 is out

 

It is built-in coding, nothing more. If I can't see a 5.6 TB library on my Ryzen, the little rpi5 will have issues. As I said, 1.5 yrs and still not fixed, it is on the official Volumio forum.

[Mike Rubin]

14 minutes ago, DuckToller said:

I just noticed the recent version of MoOde by Tim Curtis this evening
https://github.com/moode-player/moode/releases

Looked up posts about library capacity. Here's a quote:
"

BigScaryTiger Wrote: Well my moOde library has 110,786 files in in apparently.  99.98% of those will be lossless and quite a number of those are now 24bit.  
I don't have any unreasonable issue with responsiveness.  #justsaying

This is good info,  what is your hardware?

Raspberry Pi 3 Model B+  that connects to a Buffalo LS220D0602-EU 6TB LinkStation 220D 2 Bay Desktop NAS "

Worth a shot ?

Thanks for this info. 

 

I have avoided trying Moode because there are some setup details that looked more complicated than I prefer because they are done in terminal. Might be worth experimenting and seeing what I can get working. 

 

My understanding has been that Moode and Volumio are branches of the same basic code, so I assumed there wouldn't be major differences between their library management capacity.  I guess I should try it before assuming anything. 

[DuckToller]

4 minutes ago, Mike Rubin said:

Thanks for this info. 

 

I have avoided trying Moode because there are some setup details that looked more complicated than I prefer because they are done in terminal. Might be worth experimenting and seeing what I can get working. 

 

My understanding has been that Moode and Volumio are branches of the same basic code, so I assumed there wouldn't be major differences between their library management capacity.  I guess I should try it before assuming anything. 

I think Tim Curtis has established his own moode forum to support any questions ....

[Mike Rubin]

43 minutes ago, DuckToller said:

I think Tim Curtis has established his own moode forum to support any questions ....

He has. When I looked there, I found a lot of Linux code to be inserted into terminal sessions.  I can follow directions and my entire signal chain is Linux-based, so it isnt a deal killer. I just appreciate that applications like Volumio and HQPlayer make the guts pretty accessible by folding them into the GUI with pick lists and dialogues. 

[Mike Rubin]

Another angle is that there is a Squeezelite player plug in for Volumio.  It seems to work and it offloads the library management to LMS.  I probably can live with that as my backup,although I remain curious about applications, like Volumio, that allow me to manage playback closer to the DAC. 

[Mike Rubin]

On 2/15/2024 at 2:49 PM, Mike Rubin said:

Another angle is that there is a Squeezelite player plug in for Volumio.  It seems to work and it offloads the library management to LMS.  I probably can live with that as my backup,although I remain curious about applications, like Volumio, that allow me to manage playback closer to the DAC. 

Using Squeezelite with Volumio also proved problematic with a library this large.   For whatever reason, Volumio stopped making itself available to LMS despite my uninstalling and reinstalling the plug-in a couple of times.

 

I have concluded that the Pi 4 just doesn’t have enough horsepower to serve a library as large as mine.  I installed Ropieee in lieu of Volumio.  The Pi now is just an end point and I need to use the NUC or my Dell as the server, but, thus far, the various controller apps have worked like a charm.  
 

This change of function for the Pi defeats my original reason for having it, i.e., eliminating the need to spend time troubleshooting ten devices and cables in the signal chain when my Rendu won’t play back and I just want to listen to some music, but the Pi simply isn’t up to the server obligation in this application.

 

On 2/15/2024 at 8:15 AM, The Computer Audiophile said:

That would be good to know. If it's capable of working with the 5, it's a cheap upgrade. 

Okto has confirmed that the 5 is of a different physical size and has a different port configuration, so it isn’t substitutable in the DAC. Pavel also said that he knows of no current server application that can be installed on a 5.  So, that’s not my escape hatch.

[bobfa]

On 2/15/2024 at 2:37 AM, Mike Rubin said:

Hello. My name is Mike and I am a music hoarder.  

 

I have approximately 7tb of music, much of which I never will hear before I leave this mortal coil.

 

As a a backup to my main system, I have a Raspberry Pi4 with 4gb RAM with Volumio free version installed as a streamer inside my Okto Stereo 8 DAC's case.  My NAS Is mounted to it.  It's a nice Plan B for when the rest of my system isn't cooperative and I don't feel like troubleshooting ten devices in the wired signal path.  Unfortunately, however, my collection has overwhelmed Volumio and brought it to its knees.  It no longer can even display my library items.

 

To see if a fresh start would make a difference, I did a factory reset of my Volumio installation.  It has not helped and it's introduced other issues, such as a sudden inability to use plugins.

 

I would like to try another Pi music player if there is one that can manage my collection.  If there isn't one, I am prepared to use Ropieee and let the Pi be an endpoint for HQPlayer and JRiver Media Center.  That's not preferable, though, because the value of this Plan B to me is that I usually can use it easily even when my usual server-endpoint chain is acting up.  Putting it into the same chain isn't quite as appealing.

 

The only other Pi player that I know is Moode, but I gather that it has the same base code as Volumio, so may have the same large library limitations. It also seems to require configuration using SSH in addition to the GUI.  I know no linux, so prefer not to have to mess around in the terminal.  

 

Are there other Pi player products that I should audition for this setup?  DSD playback capability is essential.

 

Thanks for any help you can offer.

Have you tried running MinimServer on your NAS and used UPnP endpoint ?