Allan F Posted August 30, 2022 Share Posted August 30, 2022 19 minutes ago, PYP said: They never asked him why a "vastly superior method" didn't become the point of their advertising, rather than showing deceptive information. I think that is a fair question. I agree; it is a fair question. The controversy was created because of MoFi's lack of transparency in switching to digital capture without informing its target audience. "Relax, it's only hi-fi. There's never been a hi-fi emergency." - Roy Hall "Not everything that can be counted counts, and not everything that counts can be counted." - William Bruce Cameron Link to comment
Popular Post The Computer Audiophile Posted August 30, 2022 Popular Post Share Posted August 30, 2022 1 hour ago, PYP said: They never asked him why a "vastly superior method" didn't become the point of their advertising, rather than showing deceptive information. I think that is a fair question. Because his customer base would’ve rejected it without even listening. botrytis, Confused, fas42 and 1 other 3 1 Founder of Audiophile Style | My Audio Systems Link to comment
Popular Post The Computer Audiophile Posted August 30, 2022 Popular Post Share Posted August 30, 2022 2 hours ago, Norton said: Unfortunately, on the admittedly rare occasions now when I can put up with the inconvenience to listen to my (all analogue) LPs, it just reinforces the “myth“ of digital inferiority in about 5 seconds. I’d say it reinforces that you like your all analog LPs better than the digital versions of those albums. A live-to-two track, all digital capture at 24/192 is stunning, and more accurate than any analog capture. Plus, to play it back natively, it doesn’t need to be printed on plastic and have a needle dragged over it. I wish more albums were made this way. It at least gives us a benchmark with which to compare what’s possible in digital with other formats. Confused and botrytis 1 1 Founder of Audiophile Style | My Audio Systems Link to comment
Qhwoeprktiyns Posted August 30, 2022 Share Posted August 30, 2022 40 minutes ago, The Computer Audiophile said: A live-to-two track, all digital capture at 24/192 is stunning, and more accurate than any analog capture. Can you give some examples (preferably available on Qobuz)? Link to comment
The Computer Audiophile Posted August 30, 2022 Share Posted August 30, 2022 7 minutes ago, hopkins said: Can you give some examples (preferably available on Qobuz)? Bill Schnee, who recorded direct to disc with Doug Sax and Sheffield, created some live to two track recordings as the new version of direct to disc. Bravura Records was the label. Nothing available on streaming. Founder of Audiophile Style | My Audio Systems Link to comment
fas42 Posted August 30, 2022 Share Posted August 30, 2022 6 hours ago, MarcelNL said: doesn't it? Lacking a direct comparison does not exclude the fact that I have never heard the level of detail and 'realness' of any source surpassing what I heard there. The level of detail and realness of that experience was because you were subjectively that much closer to what the capture of the musical event contained. A very high quality analogue playback doesn't suffer from the typical digital 'nasties' that plague many systems; and makes for immersive listening - the distortions of that setup were benign, and allowed for a satisfying experience. Personally, I have never heard any analogue rig do it any better than a well sorted digital replay combo; if anything, analogue reproduction has slipped in SQ more recently, not a single LP setup at the last audio show I went to was worth listening to. Currently, it still takes a large amount of dedicated effort to extract peak SQ from digital - the industry is dragging its feet terribly, in not getting to grips properly with what's damaging the standard of playback; this should have been sorted at least a decade or so ago. Link to comment
Qhwoeprktiyns Posted August 30, 2022 Share Posted August 30, 2022 41 minutes ago, The Computer Audiophile said: Bill Schnee, who recorded direct to disc with Doug Sax and Sheffield, created some live to two track recordings as the new version of direct to disc. Bravura Records was the label. Nothing available on streaming. All analog direct to disc sounds great as well, including on a CD release. In fact, it seems Schnee/Sax were involved in all analog direct-to-disc, and that this is an attempt on their part to "recreate" that sound quality. You must be referring to this: https://www.transaudiogroup.com/press-releases/atc-and-new-sax-schnee-recording-technique/ It obviously includes some ADC, but minimal signal processing, which is certainly good: "The recording chain includes Schnee’s custom, minimal signal path, analog mixing console with tube microphones, preamps, and summing through JCF Audio 192kHz/24-bit converters, with the mix printed to disc in a Tascam DA-RV1000 high-definition master recorder" I am curious to listen to the results. Whether this is all "more accurate" than some other recording technique, I'd be curious to know how you've determined that, I'd be curious to know, also, whether Bill Schnee believes it is "more accurate" than what he used to do with direct-to-disc. Edit, the answer is here: https://tapeop.com/interviews/147/bill-schnee/: "As far as I’m concerned, early digital at 16-bit, 44.1 kHz didn’t deliver what it promised, or even close. Now, for the first time, I was hearing sound I’d only ever achieved on the direct-to-disc records" (he is referring here to his original all analog direct-to-disc, I believe). Anyway, lets be careful with throwing "accuracy" around when it comes to digital - anything can be messed up. Remember this ? PYP 1 Link to comment
fas42 Posted August 30, 2022 Share Posted August 30, 2022 3 hours ago, hopkins said: Rest assured, Archimago can appreciate a good analog setup as well, in spite of all the objective data: http://archimago.blogspot.com/2022/07/pacific-audio-fest-2022-paf-2022-day-2.html?m=1 "Color me impressed! This is reel-to-reel done right with very impressive sound. Smooth, highly dynamic, lush, yet detailed when the need arises." 😁 Ah ... so the man does recognise what accurate reproduction is like ... Link to comment
PYP Posted September 1, 2022 Share Posted September 1, 2022 On 8/30/2022 at 4:02 PM, hopkins said: Whether this is all "more accurate" than some other recording technique, I'd be curious to know how you've determined that, I'd be curious to know, also, whether Bill Schnee believes it is "more accurate" than what he used to do with direct-to-disc. Edit, the answer is here: https://tapeop.com/interviews/147/bill-schnee/: Great interview. Will read his autobiography next. He was a musician and audiophile before training to be an engineer, so there are many parts of the interview that will resonate with folks on this thread. Here is sample: "I spent the first 25 years of my career trying to get rid of distortion, and the last 25 deciding which plug-in distortion to use. What Doug came up with – and we used it over and over for testing capacitors, switches, or whatever – was a jig centered around a very high-quality silver switch. On one side of this A/B switch, we have a piece of this wonderful and hard-to-use solid core wire, and on the other side is what we’re testing. What we’re trying to do is get as close as we can to the sound of nothing, which ostensibly is the side with the wire. That’s what you’re looking for. It’s pretty easy until you come to a place where is there is a change. Is it euphonic? In other words, if you can’t get it to sound like the wire, do you at least like what you’re hearing better than the wire? With super high resolution and well-trained ears, most components – even passive pieces like a switch – can change the sound ever so slightly. If you hear something changing the sound and you don’t like it as well as the wire, keep looking." Jud 1 Grimm Audio MU2 > Mola Mola Kaluga > B&W 803 D3 Cables: Kubala-Sosna Power management: Shunyata Room: Vicoustics Ethernet: Network Acoustics Muon Pro “Nature is pleased with simplicity.” Isaac Newton "As neither the enjoyment nor the capacity of producing musical notes are faculties of the least use to man...they must be ranked among the most mysterious with which he is endowed." Charles Darwin - The Descent of Man Link to comment
Rt66indierock Posted September 4, 2022 Author Share Posted September 4, 2022 You guys just don’t get it lets go back to Animal house. The record labels are Delta House member Otto, the customers are Flounder and Fred. Otter: Flounder, you can't spend your whole life worrying about your mistakes! You f**ked up... you trusted us! Hey, make the best of it! Maybe we can help. Flounder: [crying] That's easy for you to say! What am I going to tell Fred? Otter: I'll tell you what. We'll tell Fred you were doing a great job taking care of his car, but you parked it out back last night and this morning... it was gone. We report it as stolen to the police. D-Day takes care of the wreck. Your brother's insurance company buys him a new car. Flounder: Will that work? Otter: Hey, it's gotta work better than the truth. botrytis 1 Link to comment
PYP Posted September 4, 2022 Share Posted September 4, 2022 6 minutes ago, Rt66indierock said: You guys just don’t get it lets go back to Animal house. The record labels are Delta House member Otto, the customers are Flounder and Fred. Otter: Flounder, you can't spend your whole life worrying about your mistakes! You f**ked up... you trusted us! Hey, make the best of it! Maybe we can help. Flounder: [crying] That's easy for you to say! What am I going to tell Fred? Otter: I'll tell you what. We'll tell Fred you were doing a great job taking care of his car, but you parked it out back last night and this morning... it was gone. We report it as stolen to the police. D-Day takes care of the wreck. Your brother's insurance company buys him a new car. Flounder: Will that work? Otter: Hey, it's gotta work better than the truth. was that part of your PhD dissertation on the cognitive skills of college age males? I know the The Big Lebowski has spawned many a dissertation... Since we are off thread... Grimm Audio MU2 > Mola Mola Kaluga > B&W 803 D3 Cables: Kubala-Sosna Power management: Shunyata Room: Vicoustics Ethernet: Network Acoustics Muon Pro “Nature is pleased with simplicity.” Isaac Newton "As neither the enjoyment nor the capacity of producing musical notes are faculties of the least use to man...they must be ranked among the most mysterious with which he is endowed." Charles Darwin - The Descent of Man Link to comment
The Computer Audiophile Posted September 26, 2022 Share Posted September 26, 2022 Perhaps describing any vinyl process as one-step, isn't the best marketing anymore. Founder of Audiophile Style | My Audio Systems Link to comment
Rt66indierock Posted September 26, 2022 Author Share Posted September 26, 2022 50 minutes ago, The Computer Audiophile said: Perhaps describing any vinyl process as one-step, isn't the best marketing anymore. Probably true but the vinyl market last year was a billion dollars. Mobile Fidelities share was nine million dollars. The questions are how much revenue can someone a lot older than me produce in one year and how many all-analog records can be made annually with currently operational equipment? botrytis 1 Link to comment
Rt66indierock Posted November 17, 2022 Author Share Posted November 17, 2022 A response to the complaint is due December 9th. MarcelNL 1 Link to comment
Rt66indierock Posted December 8, 2022 Author Share Posted December 8, 2022 The due date fora response to the complaint is now due December 23rd. Civil litigation in America can be a long process. Link to comment
botrytis Posted December 8, 2022 Share Posted December 8, 2022 On 9/26/2022 at 2:48 PM, Rt66indierock said: Probably true but the vinyl market last year was a billion dollars. Mobile Fidelities share was nine million dollars. The questions are how much revenue can someone a lot older than me produce in one year and how many all-analog records can be made annually with currently operational equipment? Not only that, but the condition of many of the master tapes, out there, is not that good. That was one reason Sony came up with DSD. They thought it would be a good archival format. Current: Daphile on an AMD A10-9500 with 16 GB RAM DAC - TEAC UD-501 DAC Pre-amp - Rotel RC-1590 Amplification - Benchmark AHB2 amplifier Speakers - Revel M126Be with 2 REL 7/ti subwoofers Cables - Tara Labs RSC Reference and Blue Jean Cable Balanced Interconnects Link to comment
sphinxsix Posted December 8, 2022 Share Posted December 8, 2022 24 minutes ago, botrytis said: Not only that, but the condition of many of the master tapes, out there, is not that good. That was one reason Sony came up with DSD. They thought it would be a good archival format. Fools had no idea that better than lossless MQA would be coming.. Jud 1 Link to comment
botrytis Posted December 8, 2022 Share Posted December 8, 2022 Just now, sphinxsix said: Fools had no idea that better than lossless MQA would be coming.. And that is where dcs comes in. They, said, that they helped Sony with DSD ADC's and DAC's. Current: Daphile on an AMD A10-9500 with 16 GB RAM DAC - TEAC UD-501 DAC Pre-amp - Rotel RC-1590 Amplification - Benchmark AHB2 amplifier Speakers - Revel M126Be with 2 REL 7/ti subwoofers Cables - Tara Labs RSC Reference and Blue Jean Cable Balanced Interconnects Link to comment
Jud Posted December 8, 2022 Share Posted December 8, 2022 1 hour ago, botrytis said: Not only that, but the condition of many of the master tapes, out there, is not that good. That was one reason Sony came up with DSD. They thought it would be a good archival format. The biggest reason they came up with DSD was because it allowed for less expensive ADC. Thoughts of using it as an archival format were I think probably secondary if they were part of the initial evaluation at all. One never knows, do one? - Fats Waller The fairest thing we can experience is the mysterious. It is the fundamental emotion which stands at the cradle of true art and true science. - Einstein Computer, Audirvana -> optical Ethernet to Fitlet3 -> Fibbr Alpha Optical USB -> iFi NEO iDSD DAC -> Apollon Audio 1ET400A Mini (Purifi based) -> Vandersteen 3A Signature. Link to comment
botrytis Posted December 8, 2022 Share Posted December 8, 2022 Another fact is, this was something with granted a patent, like mqa. It makes one think.... Jud 1 Current: Daphile on an AMD A10-9500 with 16 GB RAM DAC - TEAC UD-501 DAC Pre-amp - Rotel RC-1590 Amplification - Benchmark AHB2 amplifier Speakers - Revel M126Be with 2 REL 7/ti subwoofers Cables - Tara Labs RSC Reference and Blue Jean Cable Balanced Interconnects Link to comment
Jud Posted December 8, 2022 Share Posted December 8, 2022 10 minutes ago, botrytis said: Another fact is, this was something with granted a patent, like mqa. It makes one think.... Though we should be careful to distinguish that it was SACD, not the DSD format itself, that was patented. The Computer Audiophile 1 One never knows, do one? - Fats Waller The fairest thing we can experience is the mysterious. It is the fundamental emotion which stands at the cradle of true art and true science. - Einstein Computer, Audirvana -> optical Ethernet to Fitlet3 -> Fibbr Alpha Optical USB -> iFi NEO iDSD DAC -> Apollon Audio 1ET400A Mini (Purifi based) -> Vandersteen 3A Signature. Link to comment
botrytis Posted December 8, 2022 Share Posted December 8, 2022 28 minutes ago, Jud said: Though we should be careful to distinguish that it was SACD, not the DSD format itself, that was patented. I agree Current: Daphile on an AMD A10-9500 with 16 GB RAM DAC - TEAC UD-501 DAC Pre-amp - Rotel RC-1590 Amplification - Benchmark AHB2 amplifier Speakers - Revel M126Be with 2 REL 7/ti subwoofers Cables - Tara Labs RSC Reference and Blue Jean Cable Balanced Interconnects Link to comment
Rt66indierock Posted December 28, 2022 Author Share Posted December 28, 2022 The response to the Complaint is now !-23-23. Link to comment
Rt66indierock Posted January 16, 2023 Author Share Posted January 16, 2023 Tuttle et al is in the beginning process of settlement. Full refunds + shipping or a 5% refund of the purchase price or a coupon for 10% of the purchase price are the basic terms. The Computer Audiophile 1 Link to comment
The Computer Audiophile Posted January 16, 2023 Share Posted January 16, 2023 3 minutes ago, Rt66indierock said: Tuttle et al is in the beginning process of settlement. Full refunds + shipping or a 5% refund of the purchase price or a coupon for 10% of the purchase price are the basic terms. Would love to see the final stats on this one. How many take the full refund w/return. How many take teh 5% refund How many take the 10% coupon How much the returned copies are then sold for. My guess is the dog caught the car, for the most part. Now what. Many have the best sounding albums in their collections and they'll want to return those? Makes little sense. Founder of Audiophile Style | My Audio Systems Link to comment
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