Tuttle et al v Audiophile Music Direct

[Allan F]

19 minutes ago, PYP said:

They never asked him why a "vastly superior method" didn't become the point of their advertising, rather than showing deceptive information.   I think that is a fair question.

 

I agree; it is a fair question. The controversy was created because of MoFi's lack of transparency in switching to digital capture without informing its target audience.

[The Computer Audiophile]

1 hour ago, PYP said:

They never asked him why a "vastly superior method" didn't become the point of their advertising, rather than showing deceptive information.   I think that is a fair question.

Because his customer base would’ve rejected it without even listening. 

[The Computer Audiophile]

2 hours ago, Norton said:

Unfortunately,  on the admittedly rare occasions now when I can put up with the inconvenience to listen to my (all analogue) LPs,  it just reinforces the “myth“ of digital inferiority in about 5 seconds.

I’d say it reinforces that you like your all analog LPs better than the digital versions of those albums. 
 

A live-to-two track, all digital capture at 24/192 is stunning, and more accurate than any analog capture. Plus, to play it back natively, it doesn’t need to be printed on plastic and have a needle dragged over it. 
 

I wish more albums were made this way. It at least gives us a benchmark with which to compare what’s possible in digital with other formats. 

[Qhwoeprktiyns]

40 minutes ago, The Computer Audiophile said:

A live-to-two track, all digital capture at 24/192 is stunning, and more accurate than any analog capture.

 

Can you give some examples (preferably available on Qobuz)? 

[The Computer Audiophile]

7 minutes ago, hopkins said:

 

Can you give some examples (preferably available on Qobuz)? 

Bill Schnee, who recorded direct to disc with Doug Sax and Sheffield, created some live to two track recordings as the new version of direct to disc. Bravura Records was the label. Nothing available on streaming. 

[fas42]

6 hours ago, MarcelNL said:

doesn't it? Lacking a direct comparison does not exclude the fact that I have never heard the level of detail and 'realness' of any source surpassing what I heard there.

 

The level of detail and realness of that experience was because you were subjectively that much closer to what the capture of the musical event contained. A very high quality analogue playback doesn't suffer from the typical digital 'nasties' that plague many systems; and makes for immersive listening - the distortions of that setup were benign, and allowed for a satisfying experience. Personally, I have never heard any analogue rig do it any better than a well sorted digital replay combo; if anything, analogue reproduction has slipped in SQ more recently, not a single LP setup at the last audio show I went to was worth listening to.

 

Currently, it still takes a large amount of dedicated effort to extract peak SQ from digital - the industry is dragging its feet terribly, in not getting to grips properly with what's damaging the standard of playback; this should have been sorted at least a decade or so ago.

[Qhwoeprktiyns]

41 minutes ago, The Computer Audiophile said:

Bill Schnee, who recorded direct to disc with Doug Sax and Sheffield, created some live to two track recordings as the new version of direct to disc. Bravura Records was the label. Nothing available on streaming. 

 

All analog direct to disc sounds great as well, including on a CD release. In fact, it seems Schnee/Sax were involved in all analog direct-to-disc, and that this is an attempt on their part to "recreate" that sound quality.

 

You must be referring to this: https://www.transaudiogroup.com/press-releases/atc-and-new-sax-schnee-recording-technique/

 

It obviously includes some ADC, but minimal signal processing, which is certainly good:

 

"The recording chain includes Schnee’s custom, minimal signal path, analog mixing console with tube microphones, preamps, and summing through JCF Audio 192kHz/24-bit converters, with the mix printed to disc in a Tascam DA-RV1000 high-definition master recorder"

 

I am curious to listen to the results. 

 

Whether this is all "more accurate" than some other recording technique, I'd be curious to know how you've determined that, I'd be curious to know, also, whether Bill Schnee believes it is "more accurate" than what he used to do with direct-to-disc. Edit, the answer is here: https://tapeop.com/interviews/147/bill-schnee/: 

 

"As far as I’m concerned, early digital at 16-bit, 44.1 kHz didn’t deliver what it promised, or even close. Now, for the first time, I was hearing sound I’d only ever achieved on the direct-to-disc records" (he is referring here to his original all analog direct-to-disc, I believe).

 

Anyway, lets be careful with throwing "accuracy" around when it comes to digital - anything can be messed up. Remember this ?

 

 

[fas42]

3 hours ago, hopkins said:

 

Rest assured, Archimago can appreciate a good analog setup as well, in spite of all the objective data:

 

http://archimago.blogspot.com/2022/07/pacific-audio-fest-2022-paf-2022-day-2.html?m=1

 

"Color me impressed! This is reel-to-reel done right with very impressive sound. Smooth, highly dynamic, lush, yet detailed when the need arises."

 

😁

 

Ah ... so the man does recognise what accurate reproduction is like ...

[PYP]

On 8/30/2022 at 4:02 PM, hopkins said:

Whether this is all "more accurate" than some other recording technique, I'd be curious to know how you've determined that, I'd be curious to know, also, whether Bill Schnee believes it is "more accurate" than what he used to do with direct-to-disc. Edit, the answer is here: https://tapeop.com/interviews/147/bill-schnee/: 

 

Great interview.  Will read his autobiography next.  He was a musician and audiophile before training to be an engineer, so there are many parts of the interview that will resonate with folks on this thread.  Here is sample:

 

"I spent the first 25 years of my career trying to get rid of distortion, and the last 25 deciding which plug-in distortion to use. What Doug came up with – and we used it over and over for testing capacitors, switches, or whatever – was a jig centered around a very high-quality silver switch. On one side of this A/B switch, we have a piece of this wonderful and hard-to-use solid core wire, and on the other side is what we’re testing. What we’re trying to do is get as close as we can to the sound of nothing, which ostensibly is the side with the wire. That’s what you’re looking for. It’s pretty easy until you come to a place where is there is a change. Is it euphonic? In other words, if you can’t get it to sound like the wire, do you at least like what you’re hearing better than the wire? With super high resolution and well-trained ears, most components – even passive pieces like a switch – can change the sound ever so slightly. If you hear something changing the sound and you don’t like it as well as the wire, keep looking."

[Rt66indierock]

You guys just don’t get it lets go back to Animal house. The record labels are Delta House member Otto, the customers are Flounder and Fred.

Otter: Flounder, you can't spend your whole life worrying about your mistakes! You f**ked up... you trusted us! Hey, make the best of it! Maybe we can help.

Flounder: [crying] That's easy for you to say! What am I going to tell Fred?

Otter: I'll tell you what. We'll tell Fred you were doing a great job taking care of his car, but you parked it out back last night and this morning... it was gone. We report it as stolen to the police. D-Day takes care of the wreck. Your brother's insurance company buys him a new car.

Flounder: Will that work?

Otter: Hey, it's gotta work better than the truth.

[PYP]

6 minutes ago, Rt66indierock said:

You guys just don’t get it lets go back to Animal house. The record labels are Delta House member Otto, the customers are Flounder and Fred.

Otter: Flounder, you can't spend your whole life worrying about your mistakes! You f**ked up... you trusted us! Hey, make the best of it! Maybe we can help.

Flounder: [crying] That's easy for you to say! What am I going to tell Fred?

Otter: I'll tell you what. We'll tell Fred you were doing a great job taking care of his car, but you parked it out back last night and this morning... it was gone. We report it as stolen to the police. D-Day takes care of the wreck. Your brother's insurance company buys him a new car.

Flounder: Will that work?

Otter: Hey, it's gotta work better than the truth.

was that part of your PhD dissertation on the cognitive skills of college age males?

 

I know the The Big Lebowski has spawned many a dissertation...    Since we are off thread...

[The Computer Audiophile]

Perhaps describing any vinyl process as one-step, isn't the best marketing anymore. 

 

 

 

[Rt66indierock]

50 minutes ago, The Computer Audiophile said:

Perhaps describing any vinyl process as one-step, isn't the best marketing anymore. 

 

 

 

 

Probably true but the vinyl market last year was a billion dollars. Mobile Fidelities share was nine million dollars. The questions are how much revenue can someone a lot older than me produce in one year and how many all-analog records can be made annually with currently operational equipment?

 

[Rt66indierock]

A response to the complaint is due December 9th.

[Rt66indierock]

The due date fora response to the complaint is now due December 23rd. Civil litigation in America can be a long process.

[botrytis]

On 9/26/2022 at 2:48 PM, Rt66indierock said:

 

Probably true but the vinyl market last year was a billion dollars. Mobile Fidelities share was nine million dollars. The questions are how much revenue can someone a lot older than me produce in one year and how many all-analog records can be made annually with currently operational equipment?

 

 

Not only that, but the condition of many of the master tapes, out there, is not that good. That was one reason Sony came up with DSD. They thought it would be a good archival format.

[sphinxsix]

24 minutes ago, botrytis said:

Not only that, but the condition of many of the master tapes, out there, is not that good. That was one reason Sony came up with DSD. They thought it would be a good archival format.

Fools had no idea that better than lossless MQA would be coming..

[botrytis]

Just now, sphinxsix said:

Fools had no idea that better than lossless MQA would be coming..

 

And that is where dcs comes in. They, said, that they helped Sony with DSD ADC's and DAC's.

 

 

[Jud]

1 hour ago, botrytis said:

 

Not only that, but the condition of many of the master tapes, out there, is not that good. That was one reason Sony came up with DSD. They thought it would be a good archival format.

 

The biggest reason they came up with DSD was because it allowed for less expensive ADC. Thoughts of using it as an archival format were I think probably secondary if they were part of the initial evaluation at all.

[botrytis]

Another fact is, this was something with granted a patent, like mqa. It makes one think....

[Jud]

10 minutes ago, botrytis said:

Another fact is, this was something with granted a patent, like mqa. It makes one think....

 

Though we should be careful to distinguish that it was SACD, not the DSD format itself, that was patented.

[botrytis]

28 minutes ago, Jud said:

 

Though we should be careful to distinguish that it was SACD, not the DSD format itself, that was patented.

 

I agree

[Rt66indierock]

The response to the Complaint is now !-23-23.

[Rt66indierock]

Tuttle et al is in the beginning process of settlement. Full refunds + shipping or a 5% refund of the purchase price or a coupon for 10% of the purchase price are the basic terms.

[The Computer Audiophile]

3 minutes ago, Rt66indierock said:

Tuttle et al is in the beginning process of settlement. Full refunds + shipping or a 5% refund of the purchase price or a coupon for 10% of the purchase price are the basic terms.

Would love to see the final stats on this one. 

 

How many take the full refund w/return.

How many take teh 5% refund

How many take the 10% coupon

 

How much the returned copies are then sold for. 

 

My guess is the dog caught the car, for the most part. Now what. Many have the best sounding albums in their collections and they'll want to return those? Makes little sense.