Building a DIY Music Server

[Cazzesman]

@StreamFidelityI have slowly been working my way through the 146 pages.    There is a massive amount of talk about lowering the heat within the HDPlex H5 cases, with the higher powered CPU's  - TDP 105 and above.

 

I love the look of your Perspex lids.   I can't see anywhere if you have done any testing of temps from your personal Server both with the standard H5 lid on and with the 4 Hole Perspex Lid.

 

Any stats available please?

 

Regards Cazzesman

[Cazzesman]

Folks did I read somewhere in this thread that it was thought the Gen 11 Intel CPU's were not as good as Gen 10's for a Music Server.

 

Sorry if I have this wrong.

 

Regards Cazzesman

[ASRMichael]

@Nenon Any further update on Taiko case? 

[ASRMichael]

@Nenon I’m speaking for others here but we would love to hear the differences between your DIY dual CPU versus Taiko? Your the only person who can give this comparison? I recall you said previously you thought it was around 80% of the Taiko (minus TAS & USB card). Would be great to hear this, I’ve been sitting on the fence for a while with regards to moving to dual CPU design. 
 

If you got a minute that would be great. 

[Nenon]

18 hours ago, ASRMichael said:

@Nenon Any further update on Taiko case? 

I am told that the chassis is ready but there is a shortage of heatsinks. Asked for drawings or renderings to share and will do as soon as I get those. 

 

18 hours ago, ASRMichael said:

@Nenon I’m speaking for others here but we would love to hear the differences between your DIY dual CPU versus Taiko? Your the only person who can give this comparison? I recall you said previously you thought it was around 80% of the Taiko (minus TAS & USB card). Would be great to hear this, I’ve been sitting on the fence for a while with regards to moving to dual CPU design. 
 

If you got a minute that would be great. 

Well, my Extreme is still in the Netherlands, and I have not received it. This is partially because I agreed to use my Extreme for various experiments (not realizing it will take so long). I know there is a big party on the WBF Taiko thread (which I haven't had time to go through) about some software improvements Taiko has done that were quite significant. As far as I know these improvements were done on my Extreme, so I am glad I was able to help. Now if I could only hear them myself too :) 

[Exocer]

1 hour ago, Nenon said:

Well, my Extreme is still in the Netherlands, and I have not received it.

That being said, what have you been listening with these days? 😎

 

1 hour ago, Nenon said:

As far as I know these improvements were done on my Extreme, so I am glad I was able to help. Now if I could only hear them myself too :)

Very cool.

 

There have been huge strides in what can be done with a single CPU rig, with the advent of the Taiko DC-ATX adapter and unregulated LPS. Switching from an SMPS to an LPS (PH SR7T) with the HDPlex 800W Dc-ATX solution was eye opening. Replacing the HDPlex 800W with the Taiko resulted in a major unexpected improvement. Switcing to the unregulated LPS brought about another monumental improvement. There have been several reports from others who have gone from single to dual CPU builds who seem very happy. That is a question I hope to answer myself at some point.

 

One caveat.. the motherboard and CPU utilized by the SGM Extreme isn't exactly new tech and one would wonder if investing funds on older hardware makes economical sense in 22'. So i'm keeping my hopes up that there will be a refresh of sorts in the next year (or two?) while I cling to my amazing sounding single CPU build and focus my funds elsewhere in the chain...

 

Ramble over! I wonder if others share my sentiments...

 

In other news:

1. For those with the unregulated LPS, with the Toroidy Supreme V2, the Noratel does sound better but I can't confirm how much better.

2. I would like to reiterate a previous observation about the power cable feeding this LPS. I've found that the shielded power cable had a way of closing in the soundstage and in my particular setup I recommend going with an unshielded cable of good quality with the ULPS. This rule may not apply in all cases but should be explored.

 

Cheers,

-Rob

 

 

[Dev]

22 minutes ago, Exocer said:

One caveat.. the motherboard and CPU utilized by the SGM Extreme isn't exactly new tech and one would wonder if investing funds on older hardware makes economical sense in 22'.

 

I share the same thoughts but sometimes new tech doesn't translate to good sound. I read somewhere that Taiko had evaluated many many motherboards (I think they even designed one ?) at the time and choose the Asus sage. Moreover, the server grade CPU/motherboard doesn't see that often refresh as the consumer grades does and especially with EP series.

 

With the newer gen cpu/motherboard, someone needs to do the comparative study with the Sage and if you are looking for subjective comparison of sound quality, it's incredibly tedious job.  I am also looking forward towards a dual Xeon builds for a while and the only thing that prevented me is a chassis/heatsink that I hope Taiko can deliver it in the coming months, off-coarse assuming the price is on the reasonable side. But for the time being, I am content with the i9-10900k/Asus ROG combo and not venturing into upgrades.  

[Exocer]

7 minutes ago, Dev said:

I share the same thoughts but sometimes new tech doesn't translate to good sound. I read somewhere that Taiko had evaluated many many motherboards (I think they even designed one ?) at the time and choose the Asus sage. Moreover, the server grade CPU/motherboard doesn't see that often refresh as the consumer grades does and especially with EP series.

So true, and this is why i'm struggling to plop down the funds. You may have just helped lift my mental block. I've been building PCs (and servers) for too long and have never purchased such expensive, older hardware. But, for the sake of SQ it may just be a requirement.

 

That being said, there have only been bits and pieces of how to deal with process lasso, Windows LTSC licensing, etc. The chassis is another topic as well but I am confident the new HDPlex may fit the bill here, with its newer cooling compatibility with the longer Xeon CPU we want to use.

 

So yeah, not a lot out there to work with at this point. As the picture becomes clearer it may be more worthwhile to move in the direction of the proven dual CPU build..

[Dev]

3 minutes ago, Exocer said:

That being said, there have only been bits and pieces of how to deal with process lasso, Windows LTSC licensing, etc.

 

I am running Win 10 pro now. With dual Xeon it might need ltsc and process lasso depending on how to want to architect it from s/w perspective but I am sure we will figure it out when we are there. It may not be as efficient as Taiko but surely usable. I am looking for the dual Xeon as a base platform and then go from there and without having the platform ready, its very difficult to experiment.

 

 

4 minutes ago, Exocer said:

The chassis is another topic as well but I am confident the new HDPlex may fit the bill here, with its newer cooling compatibility with the longer Xeon CPU we want to use.

 

What do you mean HDplex may fit the bill ? You mean DIY the Sage inside the H5 case and plop the Taiko on the outside (as Nenon did) ?

 

 

[Exocer]

9 minutes ago, Dev said:

What do you mean HDplex may fit the bill ? You mean DIY the Sage inside the H5 case and plop the Taiko on the outside (as Nenon did) ?

Yes and this may work out well for some. For example, I do not think my iteration of V3 will fit in the new Taiko chassis. So I’d have two chassis either way.

 

" I am looking for the dual Xeon as a base platform and then go from there and without having the platform ready, its very difficult to experiment."

 

On the same page as you here.

 

 

 

 

[ASRMichael]

26 minutes ago, Dev said:

  I am also looking forward towards a dual Xeon builds for a while and the only thing that prevented me is a chassis/heatsink that I hope Taiko can deliver it in the coming months, off-coarse assuming the price is on the reasonable side. But for the time being, I am content with the i9-10900k/Asus ROG combo and not venturing into upgrades.  

I was talking to Exocer last night about same thing. Once the Taiko case comes,  this itch will need to be scratched! 

[ASRMichael]

@MarcelNL are you planning dual CPU? 

[ASRMichael]

29 minutes ago, Exocer said:

So true, and this is why i'm struggling to plop down the funds. You may have just helped lift my mental block. I've been building PCs (and servers) for too long and have never purchased such expensive, older hardware. But, for the sake of SQ it may just be a requirement.

 

That being said, there have only been bits and pieces of how to deal with process lasso, Windows LTSC licensing, etc. The chassis is another topic as well but I am confident the new HDPlex may fit the bill here, with its newer cooling compatibility with the longer Xeon CPU we want to use.

 

So yeah, not a lot out there to work with at this point. As the picture becomes clearer it may be more worthwhile to move in the direction of the proven dual CPU build..

I do hope Nenon will still post how to setup dual cpu! As promised! 😂

[ASRMichael]

3 hours ago, Nenon said:

I am told that the chassis is ready but there is a shortage of heatsinks. Asked for drawings or renderings to share and will do as soon as I get those. 

 

Well, my Extreme is still in the Netherlands, and I have not received it. This is partially because I agreed to use my Extreme for various experiments (not realizing it will take so long). I know there is a big party on the WBF Taiko thread (which I haven't had time to go through) about some software improvements Taiko has done that were quite significant. As far as I know these improvements were done on my Extreme, so I am glad I was able to help. Now if I could only hear them myself too :) 

Cheers Nenon. Your contribution to this forum has been 2nd to none. I thank you for that! 👍 I’m sure many others here will chip in with that sentiment also! 

[Dev]

10 minutes ago, Exocer said:

Yes and this may work out well for some.

 

Yeah but unfortunately it looks a bit ugly as I do not have a dedicated room.

 

1 minute ago, ASRMichael said:

Cheers Nenon. Your contribution to this forum has been 2nd to none. I thank you for that! 👍 I’m sure many others here will chip in with that sentiment also! 

 

👍👍👍

[Dev]

I do not think I have posted about this before but a while back I added couple more heatpipes to the older H5 case and it lowered the temps by 8-10deg C. My temps hoovers in the high 30degs now with the CPU un-throttled to its full potential. I used to run couple of external USB fans before but I later found that it somehow deteriorated the sound. With the addition of the heatpipes, I no longer need the fans with the added advantage of the server sounding better.

 

 

 

 

[ASRMichael]

9 minutes ago, Dev said:

I do not think I have posted about this before but a while back I added couple more heatpipes to the older H5 case and it lowered the temps by 8-10deg C. My temps hoovers in the high 30degs now with the CPU un-throttled to its full potential. I used to run couple of external USB fans before but I later found that it somehow deteriorated the sound. With the addition of the heatpipes, I no longer need the fans with the added advantage of the server sounding better.

 

 

 

 

Wow! Your pipe bending skills are a million times better than mine! 😂

[ASRMichael]

Anyone considering Taiko router when it comes out? I believe it’s being made available to all, not just Taiko owners! 

[Exocer]

30 minutes ago, Dev said:

I do not think I have posted about this before but a while back I added couple more heatpipes to the older H5 case and it lowered the temps by 8-10deg C. My temps hoovers in the high 30degs now with the CPU un-throttled to its full potential. I used to run couple of external USB fans before but I later found that it somehow deteriorated the sound. With the addition of the heatpipes, I no longer need the fans with the added advantage of the server sounding better.

 

 

 

 

First of all, awesome accomplishment. Second of all, our builds are freakishly similar. I use the same Nic, USB card and Revelation SSD AND M2. adapter. The motherboard is different though.

 

Can you link us to the pipes you ordered? Interested in emulating this.

 

Also,

Yeah having a 2nd chassis is ugly but i've gotten used to it it. I now have:

 

PH SR7T

SJ DC3

ALS-HPULN

SJ DC4

ULPS V3

Keces P3 

LPS 1.2

 

All in my rather small listening space (my living room). How I manage to pull this off is beyond me but is is far from optimal!

 

 

[ASRMichael]

8 minutes ago, Exocer said:

 

 

PH SR7T

SJ DC3

ALS-HPULN

SJ DC4

ULPS V3

Keces P3 

LPS 1.2

 

 

 

 

I’m going to call you He-Man! I have the power! 😂

[Dev]

13 minutes ago, Exocer said:

First of all, awesome accomplishment. Second of all, our builds are freakishly similar. I use the same Nic, USB card and Revelation SSD AND M2. adapter. The motherboard is different though.

 

Can you link us to the pipes you ordered? Interested in emulating this.

 

Any 6mm heatpipes will do. I bought them from aliexpress.

 

https://www.aliexpress.com/item/32836351489.html?spm=a2g0o.productlist.0.0.4bd926ae55L1Ps&algo_pvid=69f2e188-f061-4dc0-a99e-5c0dce77c7a2&algo_exp_id=69f2e188-f061-4dc0-a99e-5c0dce77c7a2-0&pdp_ext_f={"sku_id"%3A"65138184404"}&pdp_pi=-1%3B3.16%3B-1%3B-1%40salePrice%3BUSD%3Bsearch-mainSearch

[MarcelNL]

1 hour ago, ASRMichael said:

@MarcelNL are you planning dual CPU? 

Not really, I'm sortof committed to AMD as I'm using Daphile and a Pink Faun I2S out, still interested in a W LTSC experiment...

Next step will be a 16core Ryzen, once they become affordable on the used market.

When W LTSC sounds better than Daphile I may venture into dual CPU at some point.

[Nenon]

2 hours ago, ASRMichael said:

I do hope Nenon will still post how to setup dual cpu! As promised! 😂

That's the plan! As soon as I get my hands on one of those DIY chassis... 

 

37 minutes ago, MarcelNL said:

Not really, I'm sortof committed to AMD as I'm using Daphile and a Pink Faun I2S out, still interested in a W LTSC experiment...

It has been a while (more than 3 years), and I don't remember if the Pink Faun I2S worked on the Xeon / Windows, but I have a feeling it did. I might be wrong, though. There was a countless number of experiments since then. But I am 100% sure the Pink Faun I2S bridge works on some Intel CPUs. 

FWIW, I was the biggest fan of I2S and was swearing there was no better way for the computer and DAC to communicate. The Pink Faun I2S with ultraOCXO clock was my reference for quite some time. I even bought a Wireworld Platinum Starlight 7 HDMI cable (and some others) as I thought that was my endgame rig. But my prospective completely changed when I added a JLSounds USB input to my DIY DAC at the time (which is essentially a USB to I2S conversion) and tried one of the better cards like the JCAT XE / Pink Faun ultraOCXO and lately the Taiko USB. There is no way I am going back to I2S at this point. 

[MarcelNL]

The PF card does work with Intel it's just that the combo of Linux and Intel somehow does not work.

Pink Faun I2S bridge supported platforms:

Intel CPU with all Windows versions (WASAPI)

AMD CPU with all Windows versions (WASAPI)

AMD CPU with all Linux distributions (ALSA)

 

That said, I'm open to anything but am now at a stage of sound quality where I'd need a comparison of sound before spending any more $ (well actually $$$$$) 

I might just go the same route as you by buying a Taiko Extreme EVO PLUS or something as the current version at some point will be outperformed by newer insights and possibly gear. I plan on auditioning the Extreme during High End Munich (it's a GO!) to get an impression and reference point, I may be travelling to their HQ at some point for a better listen as shipping gear affects SQ in a way that never ceases to amaze me (think weeks fro stuff to settle)

 

I'm in no hurry, tinkering with the new bypass caps as it is, what I hear is a promise of 'happy days' ahead.

[Cazzesman]

I have read this thread many times to get my head around the Why’s and Wherefores of building a Media Server.

 

I have tried to create a list from most important to least important.   There are many pieces to this puzzle and from my list I will calculate where the money is initially best spent.   I hope to make the build future proof, allowing for improvements and upgrades.

 

Based on this thread, I have Ranked what appears to be the most important for improving SQ. 

1. DC ATX Power Supply feeding EPS, CPU, MB, Cards. (Taiko, SJ, HDPlex)

2. Power Supply to feed the DC ATX (Homemade Unreg LPS @35V, SJ, Keces, HDPlex etc)

3. CPU Cores (The more the merrier) Intel i7 - 11700 8 core vs i9 - 10900 10 core

4. PC Case with Passive Cooling – HDPlex H5 V3 seems the go to brand.

5. Passive CPU Cooling via quality Heatsink and ample copper piping (The more piping the better)

6. Maintaining low CPU Temps (under 50 where possible). Hence why I will look for a CPU with 65 TDP to use in the H5 Ver 3.

7. Upgraded wiring for power within the Server i.e. 24 x 24, 8 x 8, EPS, Assorted Cards. (Homemade or Ghent seems the go to brand)

8. Quality RAM- preferably ECC Capable – Apacer or Gskill (how important is ECC?)

9. Quality USB Card (I have Jcat XE)

10. Quality NVME M.2

11. In my case Motherboard and CPU with integrated Graphics Card.

12. Motherboard with CPU capable of being powered by 2 x 8 Molex pins. (is this really that important?)

Can I get some advice please as to whether I am fairly well on point with my list and the Most to Least Importance.     The big ticket items are obviously the LPS (or ULPS) and DC/ATX PS and they appear to have large influence on SQ.    Both those Items can easily be upgradable.      Remembering I am upgrading from a 2013 version of CAPS Lagoon.

 

All my storage will be on board so no need for Internet Card or Wifi card.    

 

Regards Cazzesman