HOLO Audio MAY DAC

[giordy60]

6 hours ago, Diavolo said:

 

.

hi Devil a question ....

which server do you use to upsampling to DSD 1024?

thanks

[GoldenOne]

3 minutes ago, giordy60 said:

.

hi Devil a question ....

which server do you use to upsampling to DSD 1024?

thanks

I think the dsd5 modulator is fairly light on the cpu so 1024 isn't awfully hard. 

 

Its the ec modulators that sound amazing but are incredibly intensive. 

Though personally I prefer asdm7ec x256 to anything I can run at x1024

[giordy60]

1 hour ago, GoldenOne said:

I think the dsd5 modulator is fairly light on the cpu so 1024 isn't awfully hard. 

 

 

 

thanks,

as soon as I can I try it 👍

 

 

 

 

[Diavolo]

2 hours ago, GoldenOne said:

I think the dsd5 modulator is fairly light on the cpu so 1024 isn't awfully hard. 

 

Its the ec modulators that sound amazing but are incredibly intensive. 

Though personally I prefer asdm7ec x256 to anything I can run at x1024

It's called a Sigao B made in UK,   https://www.atlastsolutions.com/sigao-model-b-fanless-pc-10th-gen-10-core-i9-10900t-up-to-64gb-most-powerful-fanless-pc-ever-h470i/

 

With Nvidia Quadro GPU. 

https://www.atlastsolutions.com/sigao-model-b-fanless-pc-10th-gen-10-core-i9-10900t-up-to-64gb-nvidia-quadro-p400v2-multi-display-h470i/

 

It's a custom fanless/silent running passively cooled heatsink chassis with heat pipes to passively cool the 10th Gen 10-Core i9 10900T  CPU(120wTDP), mine is fully loaded with an added 4tb ssd for music that I added.  I power it with a separate HDPLEX 300w linear power supply.

 

There's a newer version with an added Nvidia Quadro graphics card which is also passively cooled. If this Quadro is compatible with hqplayer's gpu offload feature it would be pretty sweet for extra processing. As Jussi mentions in my earlier post DSD1024 is very hard even with easy settings. I'm going to switch to his recommended DSD256 settings to try it out. Jussi said this isn't easy either. (see my previous post) 

[barrows]

i9-10900T appears to have a very low clock base frequency?  Jussi has mentioned that a high clock base frequency is desirable for oversampling to DSD and using the EC modulators, and it would appear that the "T" version  would not be the best choice for this?

[Diavolo]

3 minutes ago, barrows said:

i9-10900T appears to have a very low clock base frequency?  Jussi has mentioned that a high clock base frequency is desirable for oversampling to DSD and using the EC modulators, and it would appear that the "T" version  would not be the best choice for this?

 

Haven't noticed any issues other sometimes a longer delay, Roon is delayed some anyway even though they run on the same computer, but I don't listen to DSD1024 honestly. As previously mentioned I'm 99.99% using PCM 1.536MHZ, which is very easy of course.  If the Quadro Graphics they offer is Hqplayer compatible for gpu offloading, that would be very sweet and lesson the CPU strain. 

 

I've toyed with asking Jonathan (super nice and very knowledgeable; also the owner) if they can sell me the Quadro card, heatsink mounting hw, and heat pipes, but my interest level is rather low. 

 

I did modify the power and performance settings in bios to allow the cpu to get more power and clock higher when I got the 300w LPSU. Jonathan gave me lower powered Brick ac-DC smps while I was waiting on the hdplex which was delayed/backorder and they had a minor qc issue on the first batch so they needed me to swap the unit before I even hooked it up. 

 

I would ask Jonathan if has a higher base clock multicore processor that he could use with out overloading the chassis with too much heat, but I recall that case dissipates like 200w I think. 

[barrows]

I understand, as you are primarily concerned with OS to PCM, which is less demanding.  My needs are for OS everything to DSD 256 with the EC modulators.  I chose a i9-9900K for this, with its higher base clock rate, and because with the advent of the 10 series the prices came down on the 9900K.  I am not concerned about having a silent machine, so no need for passive cooling for me, I have a fan based cooling system on my new machine build as the server is another part of the home and I use a Sonore Signature Rendu SEoptical as NAA.

My Bricasti M3 loves DSD 256 input.

[Flextreme]

On 1/13/2021 at 9:00 AM, Diavolo said:

Per Jussi, 

 

For DSD512-1024 you can try setting modulator to DSD5 and filter to
poly-sinc-ext2. This would likely work, but only if the computer is fast enough.

However, for optimal performance, you could use ASDM7EC modulator and
DSD256 output rate, if your computer is fast enough for that.

May and Spring 2 should work fine at DSD rates multiple of 48k. Spring 1
didn't (like most other DACs). So you can check the "48k DSD" box.
However, I'm not sure if the ASIO driver supports those rates. Then you
can set rate limit to wanted multiple of 48k.

Problem with 96k (and other 48k-family) content is if DAC or driver
doesn't support DSD at multiples of 48k. Then if either filter doesn't
support "Any" conversion ratio (refer to the table in manual), or
"Adaptive output rate" is checked in settings, leads to conflict between
requested output rate and what is possible and thus HQPlayer refuses to
play.

For maximum performance from PCM side of Holo Audio DACs, you should set
"DAC Bits" to 20. And then for output rates equal or higher than 352.8k-1.536mhz 
use LNS15 noise-shaper (NS5 and NS9 are also options).
-----END JUSSI SUGGESTIONS -----

As for me, I don't have any SACD or Native DSD files, with a few rare exceptions.

I seem to notice more people seem to prefer upsampling PCM to DSD when using Hqplayer, but never vice-versa to my knowledge.  Since 99% of my 4tb library (also Tidal's library via Roon) is native PCM 16bit along with the fact that I tend to prefer the sound of upsampled PCM 1.536MHZ over DSD Upsampling ever so slightly in a better reproduced upper frequency detail/leading edge so I usually keep it set that way, but I'm pretty sure I'm in the minority since like I said, I read posts from plenty who love converting 16bit PCM to DSD256-DSD512 which seems to me to slightly round the leading edge ever so slightly.   Some high-end DACS actually do this internally (partially or entirely) and intentionally even if they don't necessarily advertise it, though there are models that cater to people who want this feature especially for pcm to dsd upsampling.  Again, you're really splitting hairs here, it's what ever you prefer.  

 

Purchased HQplayer, after I figured out I do prefer the additional resolution/sprakle you mentioned these settings will bring, I agree with your conclusion.

 

I can easily imagine many prefer DSD, but the May is so incredibly detailed without ever being harsh, it handles these PCM filter settings like a champ. I look forward experimenting with the filter settings once in a while and am curious  future versions of HQplayer bring additional improvements.   I'm hoping for a software version of Chords M scaler.

 

Thanks

[Diavolo]

8 minutes ago, Flextreme said:

 

Purchased HQplayer, after I figured out I do prefer the additional resolution/sprakle you mentioned these settings will bring, I agree with your conclusion.

 

I can easily imagine many prefer DSD, but the May is so incredibly detailed without ever being harsh, it handles these PCM filter settings like a champ. I look forward experimenting with the filter settings once in a while and am curious  future versions of HQplayer bring additional improvements.   I'm hoping for a software version of Chords M scaler.

 

Thanks

Oh, awesome! You're vere welcome. Happy listening! 😊 

[Account Closed]

On 1/13/2021 at 2:25 PM, barrows said:

I understand, as you are primarily concerned with OS to PCM, which is less demanding.  My needs are for OS everything to DSD 256 with the EC modulators.  I chose a i9-9900K for this, with its higher base clock rate, and because with the advent of the 10 series the prices came down on the 9900K.  I am not concerned about having a silent machine, so no need for passive cooling for me, I have a fan based cooling system on my new machine build as the server is another part of the home and I use a Sonore Signature Rendu SEoptical as NAA.

My Bricasti M3 loves DSD 256 input.

I guess that this means that you got your new build back from Andrew and it now works. Congrats

[ted_b]

1 hour ago, Flextreme said:

I'm hoping for a software version of Chords M scaler.

Try Sinc-M or Sinc-S.  M does 1 million taps, S does increasing number depending on sample rate.

[GoldenOne]

1 hour ago, Flextreme said:

 

Purchased HQplayer, after I figured out I do prefer the additional resolution/sprakle you mentioned these settings will bring, I agree with your conclusion.

 

I can easily imagine many prefer DSD, but the May is so incredibly detailed without ever being harsh, it handles these PCM filter settings like a champ. I look forward experimenting with the filter settings once in a while and am curious  future versions of HQplayer bring additional improvements.   I'm hoping for a software version of Chords M scaler.

 

Thanks

I'm actually getting a home-demo of the chord Mscaler in the coming weeks. (Dealer is currently shut due to lockdown so will have to wait til they open again though).

I'll be using it with the may so will post my findings and comparison to HQPlayer here once i've given it a proper run.

[Flextreme]

53 minutes ago, GoldenOne said:

I'm actually getting a home-demo of the chord Mscaler in the coming weeks. (Dealer is currently shut due to lockdown so will have to wait til they open again though).

I'll be using it with the may so will post my findings and comparison to HQPlayer here once i've given it a proper run.

 

That is super interesting, look forward to your conclusions. I'm sure I'm not the only one. :)

 

57 minutes ago, ted_b said:

Try Sinc-M or Sinc-S.  M does 1 million taps, S does increasing number depending on sample rate.

 

Thanks, obviously did not know this. That makes me curious to say the least. Is there somewhere a list of description/explanation for all these filter options for an oversampling noob like me?

[Diavolo]

1 hour ago, Flextreme said:

 

That is super interesting, look forward to your conclusions. I'm sure I'm not the only one. :)

 

 

Thanks, obviously did not know this. That makes me curious to say the least. Is there somewhere a list of description/explanation for all these filter options for an oversampling noob like me?

The manual helps some. 

HQPlayer-manual.pdf

[LowOrbit]

Download the HQPlayer trial version - the manual is included in the installation folder. There is a list covering the basic nature of each filter and modulator.

 

Pretty basic, but help to give you an idea.

 

I am using the program in pretty much this way, upsampling PCM into a Hugo TT2. I haven't tried the M-Scale yet (Covid interrupted the fun) but upsampling to 705/768k using Sinc-M or L (or Polysinc Long) bypasses the first stage WTA filter and adds markedly to the depth of the reproduction.

 

 

[Flextreme]

8 minutes ago, Diavolo said:

The manual helps some. 

HQPlayer-manual.pdf 3.08 MB · 1 download

 

Thanks. Completely overlooked that section.

 

Also did not find the manual anywhere, was looking in the interface and website. Found the PDF only recently in start menu by accident.  

[GoldenOne]

Holo v5.0 drivers are out

HoloAudio_v5.0.0_2020-12-15_setup (1).exe

[Account Closed]

On 1/19/2021 at 7:34 AM, GoldenOne said:

Holo v5.0 drivers are out

HoloAudio_v5.0.0_2020-12-15_setup (1).exe 2.27 MB · 27 downloads

Is this the ASIO driver for the server or is there also a USB driver update for the DAC in this package. Thanks 

[Diavolo]

On 10/30/2020 at 4:19 PM, mushi said:

I hear you.

But how do you explain that miniDSP and PLL works together on OS mode but on NOS mode doesn't?

And I'm not the first one, @Diavolo has the same problem with SPDIF.

 

I agree with you. I guess when the signal goes to the AKM upsampling chip, it's entirely reclocked, as a friend suggested, but maybe PLL is not actually on when OS is on?  I know it's so much easier to turn on or off OS using the remote then fussing with the PLL feature. 

[barrows]

5 minutes ago, Diavolo said:

I agree with you. I guess when the signal goes to the AKM upsampling chip, it's entirely reclocked, as a friend suggested, but maybe PLL is not actually on when OS is on?  I know it's so much easier to turn on or off OS using the remote then fussing with the PLL feature. 

For sure the AKM OS chip is an asynchronous re-clocker.  Personally I woudl never choose to use that in the May DAC.  I woudl always choose much better OS in software.  Jussi has shown measurements showing that the AKM OS chip is not very good at all.

[Extreme_Boky]

Is the MAY DAC USB card / the USB interface powered up internally, or does it requires +5V supplied by the source (by the laptop)? 

[John Hughes]

3 minutes ago, Extreme_Boky said:

Is the MAY DAC USB card / the USB interface powered up internally, or does it requires +5V supplied by the source (by the laptop)? 

The May uses its own power for the USB, but it does require the power signal to connect.

[Extreme_Boky]

That's what I thought. I hope the +5V coming from the source is used only for the hand-shake / initialisation.

 

But, how would they separate the grounds (laptop ground -  MAY DAC ground, using the isolator IC's, and still be able to power up the whole USB interface with the internal power supply. This would mix the grounds and make isolator chip redundant. 

 

It would be good to know exactly how it's done.

[GoldenOne]

1 minute ago, Extreme_Boky said:

That's what I thought. I hope the +5V coming from the source is used only for the hand-shake / initialisation.

 

But, how would they separate the grounds (laptop ground -  MAY DAC ground, using the isolator IC's, and still be able to power up the whole USB interface with the internal power supply. This would mix the grounds and make isolator chip redundant. 

 

It would be good to know exactly how it's done.

I imagine they may have done something similar to the ifi Igalvanic perhaps

[Diavolo]

I used to own the Intone or Intona (forget name) galvanic isolator and noticed no difference, but I did help an audiophile who had a loud 60hz ground loop between his computer and his dac (as odd as that is) and it 100% eliminated it entirely in lieu of lifting the ground which a cheater plug which by its very name... is cheating death 😁 (Tempting fate at the very least).  Of course this guy thinks my galvanic isolator made a profound musical improvement beyond the 60hz noise because he's more nuts than me 🤪.  I'm half as crazy. 

 

As an aside, he also decorated his speakers (including the drivers)and all his gear (inside and out) with hundreds of magic dots (I'm not kidding). I wish I saved that picture, I almost died of laughter 😁.  His setup looked like a polkadot mess.

 

There's no vaccine for confirmation bias. 😁 

 

The May KTE DAC doesn't need any help in the USB dept imho/ymmv.