HOLO Audio MAY DAC

[StreamFidelity]

1 hour ago, Diavolo said:

For me the point is moot, it was a hasty and costly snake-oil purchase on my part

 

I think that's a shame. Of course I can understand your frustration. As is so often the case, it depends on the overall system whether a high-quality USB card can develop its effect. The audio PC is important, the power supply is extremely important and the software must be audiophile. The room acoustics have to be right and so on. Most people hear the effect. Sometimes it just doesn't fit. I hope you continue to enjoy listening to music.

[Diavolo]

19 minutes ago, StreamFidelity said:

 

I think that's a shame. Of course I can understand your frustration. As is so often the case, it depends on the overall system whether a high-quality USB card can develop its effect. The audio PC is important, the power supply is extremely important and the software must be audiophile. The room acoustics have to be right and so on. Most people hear the effect. Sometimes it just doesn't fit. I hope you continue to enjoy listening to music.

I totally agree and that's why I have a dedicated fully acoustically treated main listening room, a custom fanless and silent running a TOTL high performance Sigao Model B Heatsink Chassis/ custom built media server made in the UK by (www.atlastsolutions.com) powered by a recently upgraded 300w LPS made by HDPLEX (the original 200w model wasn't powerful enough to run the new Intel 10th Gen 10-Core based media server after my 5 year old unit got damaged by an indirect lighting strike a few months ago along with all my networking components).  My entire lossless 4tb music library is stored on a Samsung 4TB SSD (Also use Tidal with Roon) , the os/Roon Server/Hqplayer run off a 512gb Samsung Pro 980 Nvme ssd. It's a powerful fast system capable of up to DSD1024 upsampling with Hqplayer's resource intensive settings. The server has its own independent balanced Isolation Transformer. The rest of the system is powered by a separate Equitech Son of Q balanced Isolation Transformer.  The Holo May KTE DAC runs source direct to my Pass Labs XA25 50wpc/4ohm Class A amplifier.  (I use Roon's remote volume control to attenuate Hqplayer's master volume control which allows me to eschew the use of a preamplifier which, to my ears, reduces detail and simply adds noise, unnecessary complexity, and is extraneous as I've only got the one single digital source; one USB cable direct to the Sigao Roon Server. This is so I don't suffer any lack of functionality via network limitations imposed by Roon using their client/server model.  My speakers were commissioned by me to be made by Eric Alexander at Tekton Design. I'm a very proud owner of the very first pair of Encores which are 96db sensitive into a 4 Ohm load and use a novel patented 15 tweeter MTM array that covers 300hz-20khz, along with two dedicated Audax 7" midbass drivers, and two 10" subwoofers dual rear-ported and tuned around 40hz.  They out class about any speakers I've personally owned or used to sell when I was in the high end audio business prior to the 2008 real estate debacle. Eric Alexander is a genius. I've never heard a 4 way design with the coherency and that wall of sound disappearing act of a panel speaker coupled with the dynamics and efficiency of a horn speaker without the negatives.  I spent 20 years running SET tube amplifiers, but after hearing the XA25 I sold my Allnic A6000 Quad Parallel 300bxls SET Monoblocks tube amplifiers. This is only solid-state amp I've ever heard that matches a SET tube amp in the midrange while giving up nothing in superb bass performance which you often do when using lower powered nfb SET designs.  All cabling is 10awg Analysis Plus Big Silver Oval.

 

The Holo May KTE DAC is exactly what my system needed to finish it for now. It's an incredibly resolving and yet natural and holographic presentation. I finally want for nothing.  Omg, I'm sorry for the rambling. I'm on my 3rd cup of coffee ☕. 😁  I'm a total motor mouth about this hobby. I'm very passionate about it. 🥂 Cheers and HAPPY NEW YEAR Everybody! 

 

[StreamFidelity]

An impressive system. My compliment.

 

31 minutes ago, Diavolo said:

a custom fanless and silent running a TOTL high performance Sigao Model B Heatsink Chassis/ custom built media server made in the UK by (www.atlastsolutions.com)

 

Is it this model?

 

 

Where do you connect the JCAT PCIe USB Femto Card above? Is it connected with a riser cable instead of the GPU?

[Diavolo]

40 minutes ago, StreamFidelity said:

An impressive system. My compliment.

 

 

Is it this model?

 

 

Where do you connect the JCAT PCIe USB Femto Card above? Is it connected with a riser cable instead of the GPU?

Thank you. Yes, you can do it that way or there's even a newer motherboard that supports up to two pcie x1 devices or one x4 pcie. Regardless to pair with a hdplex 300w lps you would specify the hdplex 400w DC-DC converter in lieu of the stock 200w internal smps.  I designed passively cooled products like this for (the now defunct) Niveus Media Denali, Ranier, and K2 massive fanless media servers.  

https://www.engadget.com/2008-09-04-niveus-reveals-upgraded-rainier-denali-and-pro-series-media-ser.html

 

[hols]

On 1/1/2021 at 5:20 AM, brightonjel said:

Hi everyone - wonder if you can help?  I have just received my Holo May and have got everything up and running, but with one significant omission: I can't get PCM 1.5 Mhz to work (nor can I get above DSD256, but that's not my main concern).  I can get 705.6 kHz and 768 kHz running, but no higher.  I have tried from a Sonictransporter via ethernet to a uRrendu (1.5, running 2.8 build); I have tried with a direct USB cable from the May to the Sonictransporter; I have tried with HQPlayer Desktop running on my laptop (Mac, running Big Sur) and a straight USB connection to the DAC, all to no avail.  Music plays fine at lower rates in all cases, but not at 1.4/1.5 Mhz; nothing seems to make the source connections, however configured, to run at the highest rates.  (And yes, I tested source files in differing base rates - same result).  When directly connected to my Mac Pro laptop the Audi Midi panel reports the Holo May as offering all formats at 16 and 24 bits up to and including 768 kHz, but no more.  Similarly, when attached to the Sonictransport and looking at what the uRendu says (it has a DAC diagnostic app) it, too, reports 768k as the maximum.

 

What am I doing wrong or missing?

Maybe you can try setting the HQplayer setting to 16 bit and see.

[brightonjel]

Hi Hols - thanks for that.  Yes, I had read that post in the other thread.  I think my issue right now is that the DAC itself is only report out a 705/768 capability and so whatever source I use to drive it limits output to that maximum number.  Even if I set HQP to a fixed rate of, say, 1.41 mHz, it plays at 705.

[John Hughes]

On 12/11/2020 at 5:20 PM, GoldenOne said:

I don't believe there is no. Sorry, probably could have worded that post better. 

 

What I meant is that the pll puts basically any digital source on equal footing with the may. Be it an expensive streamer or basic optical from my pc. 

 

USB sounds the same regardless of if the pll is on or not. 

 Regarding PLL and USB input. I've been corresponding with Tim @ Kitsune, and he says the PLL is engaged with the USB input, but it locks a lot faster than other inputs. 

 

Quote

" It runs in master mode on the USB port so it locks faster than the spdif inputs but it’s still working the same way. And when you disable then all inputs are disabled."

 

[John Hughes]

On 12/11/2020 at 5:20 PM, GoldenOne said:

I don't believe there is no. Sorry, probably could have worded that post better. 

 

What I meant is that the pll puts basically any digital source on equal footing with the may. Be it an expensive streamer or basic optical from my pc. 

 

USB sounds the same regardless of if the pll is on or not. 

I have been corresponding with Tim @ Kitsune, and he says that USB does use PLL:

 

Quote

" It runs in master mode on the USB port so it locks faster than the spdif inputs but it’s still working the same way. And when you disable then all inputs are disabled."

 

[Diavolo]

50 minutes ago, John Hughes said:

I have been corresponding with Tim @ Kitsune, and he says that USB does use PLL:

 

 

You are most certainly correct. 

[hols]

On 1/2/2021 at 12:09 PM, brightonjel said:

Hi Hols - thanks for that.  Yes, I had read that post in the other thread.  I think my issue right now is that the DAC itself is only report out a 705/768 capability and so whatever source I use to drive it limits output to that maximum number.  Even if I set HQP to a fixed rate of, say, 1.41 mHz, it plays at 705.

My experience is more in using Linux system and I am not sure it can work in Mac or not. In my system if one use some filters(for example poly-sinc lp) in 1x filter column sometimes one can succed in outputting PCM 1411 in Holo May. Another way is using an NAA with Jussi's OS can also succed in getting to 1411. And you will have to use the onboard USB port.

[Flextreme]

On 12/10/2020 at 5:20 PM, matthias said:

 

How is PRAT, drive and slam with the May?

Thanks

 

Matt

 

Although your question is overlooked, this was exactly my question!

 

Now I own the May KTE, and after 13 days of burn-in, I can safely say: it is incredible in PRaT department. Before I got into the serious headphone game this year, I had a complete NAIM range in my living room. Naim knows PRaT, is famous for it, let me tell you, the May KTE owns Naim in the PRaT department. 

 

I was honestly a little scared before I got the May KTE, as I returned the excellent Pegasus Musician r2r DAC, because the one  thing was missing for me was PRaT (and Bass). Especially because the May soundstage is huge, I was worried it could sound 'distant' and too polite. I was worried this is typical for r2r DACs, but luckily the May proved me wrong.

 

How does it have PRaT? First off, the dynamic contrast is incredible in the complete frequency range, bass is supremely rich but also contoured and fast with slam.  Percussion nicely jumps out the mix with perfect transients, incredible detail, but never forcing it or fatiguing. Melodies flow, PRaT is truly effortless. Fast music seem to sound faster, slow music seem even more relaxed.

 

To me, the May KTE is an work of ART, every single aspect of SQ is perfect, and most importantly it always conveys the emotion of the music. Incredible. 

 

 

 

[GoldenOne]

 

[mushi]

Hey guys, tell me honestly, can you hear the difference between on and off PLL?

USB / SPDIF / whatever?

What your golden ears say?

[John Hughes]

26 minutes ago, mushi said:

Hey guys, tell me honestly, can you hear the difference between on and off PLL?

USB / SPDIF / whatever?

What your golden ears say?

I've been listening the last few days.  I have one source that is definitely happier (functionally, not sonically) with PLL off.  Listening super critically and switching a lot between it on and off I think I hear a very small difference.  The treble is very slightly pushed forward, and the soundstage shifts just a little bit.  But it's a mosquitos fart of a difference.  It's much less of a difference than say changing the digital filter selections on other dacs. So many other factors, like the humidity in the room, power quality fluctuations etc,  make more difference. 

 

 So I am not going to worry about it and I'll keep it off for now.  

[Flextreme]

On 1/2/2021 at 5:09 AM, brightonjel said:

Hi Hols - thanks for that.  Yes, I had read that post in the other thread.  I think my issue right now is that the DAC itself is only report out a 705/768 capability and so whatever source I use to drive it limits output to that maximum number.  Even if I set HQP to a fixed rate of, say, 1.41 mHz, it plays at 705.

 

 

I have exactly the same issue: with Roon to stream to HQplayer (trail version), but also with local files. At the highest PCM rates, It plays 0.5 speed :)

 

I tried both Asio and Wasapi.

 

There are so many options when it comes to filter and output. It would be really nice to see screenshots by experienced May users of HQplayer settings, I'm sure I could learn from your experience. 

[Flextreme]

57 minutes ago, Flextreme said:

 

 

I have exactly the same issue: with Roon to stream to HQplayer (trail version), but also with local files. At the highest PCM rates, It plays 0.5 speed :)

 

I tried both Asio and Wasapi.

 

There are so many options when it comes to filter and output. It would be really nice to see screenshots by experienced May users of HQplayer settings, I'm sure I could learn from your experience. 

 

I should mention that I also tried an PCIE Asmedia USB 3.1 extension module and have a AMD x5800/x570 board.

[GoldenOne]

2 hours ago, Flextreme said:

 

I should mention that I also tried an PCIE Asmedia USB 3.1 extension module and have a AMD x5800/x570 board.

That will be why. A lot of the PCIe USB cards do not work with the higher sample rates. You have to use one of the direct USB ports.

The May additionally has two versions of its firmware, one which supports 1.5mhz but may not work with all PCIe cards (this is stock usually)
and one that maxes out at DSD512/PCM768khz but will work with all the PCIe and other USB cleanup products.

Personally i'd say that 768khz on a good USB source is much better than 1.536mhz on mobo output anyway.
 

[Holzohr]

Should work with the May, too.

[Holzohr]

4 hours ago, Flextreme said:

 

 

I have exactly the same issue: with Roon to stream to HQplayer (trail version), but also with local files. At the highest PCM rates, It plays 0.5 speed :)

 

I tried both Asio and Wasapi.

 

There are so many options when it comes to filter and output. It would be really nice to see screenshots by experienced May users of HQplayer settings, I'm sure I could learn from your experience. 

 

I have installed Roon Bridge and HQPlayer on the same Windows machine and use Sync S and LNS15 with Wasapi.

 

 

 

 

[GoldenOne]

26 minutes ago, Holzohr said:

 

I have installed Roon Bridge and HQPlayer on the same Windows machine and use Sync S and LNS15 with Wasapi.

 

 

 

 

Use ASIO not WASAPI

[Flextreme]

2 hours ago, GoldenOne said:

That will be why. A lot of the PCIe USB cards do not work with the higher sample rates. You have to use one of the direct USB ports.

The May additionally has two versions of its firmware, one which supports 1.5mhz but may not work with all PCIe cards (this is stock usually)
and one that maxes out at DSD512/PCM768khz but will work with all the PCIe and other USB cleanup products.

Personally i'd say that 768khz on a good USB source is much better than 1.536mhz on mobo output anyway.
 

 

I tried all ports, removed my jitterbug, no luck so far. Also deleted devices with Device Cleaner before trying different ports.  I'm running on v1.20 firmware, should be recent?! BTW, I also like VR, and my HP reverb G2 headset also had USB issues. Mayby it is AMD related, or mayby it is time for a clean Windows install, mine is 4 years old. Come to think of it, I can try my intel based laptop. 

 

Will focus on testing 7xx Khz rates. I have to say, that Roon's upsampling is also an option. Especially with EQ enabled I prefer it over standard signal. It is clear to me HQplayer upsampling seems to give slightly more resolution, but i need more time testing the different settings. It is a fun but also tiring process because the differences are subtle. 

 

Is there a objective way to find out (other than subjective listening) which USB port gives best results?

[barrows]

10 minutes ago, Flextreme said:

Is there a objective way to find out (other than subjective listening) which USB port gives best results?

Only with very expensive test gear.  A very high speed 'scope for eye pattern testing, and a really good spectrum analyzer for testing the noise on the power and ground lines.

[Miska]

43 minutes ago, Flextreme said:

Is there a objective way to find out (other than subjective listening) which USB port gives best results?

 

I prefer to measure DACs analog output, that is what tells the real story of what you are listening to.

 

And yeah, annoyingly there's quite a lot of variation from product to product depending on the USB interface and source implementation...

 

[GoldenOne]

8 hours ago, Flextreme said:

 

I tried all ports, removed my jitterbug, no luck so far. Also deleted devices with Device Cleaner before trying different ports.  I'm running on v1.20 firmware, should be recent?! BTW, I also like VR, and my HP reverb G2 headset also had USB issues. Mayby it is AMD related, or mayby it is time for a clean Windows install, mine is 4 years old. Come to think of it, I can try my intel based laptop. 

 

Will focus on testing 7xx Khz rates. I have to say, that Roon's upsampling is also an option. Especially with EQ enabled I prefer it over standard signal. It is clear to me HQplayer upsampling seems to give slightly more resolution, but i need more time testing the different settings. It is a fun but also tiring process because the differences are subtle. 

 

Is there a objective way to find out (other than subjective listening) which USB port gives best results?

Double check you're actually on the firmware that allows for 1.536mhz playback. There are two versions of the may firmware.

Download the attached file and run the "DFU" file (make sure you've got holo drivers installed first).
If it says you're on 3014, then that's the 768khz version. If you're on 3012 then it should play 1.536mhz fine. 
(If yours is a later number than these then you might have newer firmware so i'm not sure, let us know if that's the case though)

You can swap between these two firmware versions freely. If you are on 3014 and want to flash to 3012 then you can do so by clicking "Update" in the 3012 file

holo_gen2_3012_upgrade-20201231T222201Z-001.zip holo_gen2_3014_768k_upgrade-20201231T222148Z-001.zip

[luisma]

23 hours ago, Flextreme said:

There are so many options when it comes to filter and output. It would be really nice to see screenshots by experienced May users of HQplayer settings, I

I am not an experienced May user, The settings would generally apply to any Dac, this is a very good thread if you are interested in filters.

https://community.roonlabs.com/t/which-hqp-filter-are-you-using/6061