HOLO Audio MAY DAC

[Flextreme]

15 hours ago, GoldenOne said:

Double check you're actually on the firmware that allows for 1.536mhz playback. There are two versions of the may firmware.

Download the attached file and run the "DFU" file (make sure you've got holo drivers installed first).
If it says you're on 3014, then that's the 768khz version. If you're on 3012 then it should play 1.536mhz fine. 
(If yours is a later number than these then you might have newer firmware so i'm not sure, let us know if that's the case though)

You can swap between these two firmware versions freely. If you are on 3014 and want to flash to 3012 then you can do so by clicking "Update" in the 3012 file

holo_gen2_3012_upgrade-20201231T222201Z-001.zip 202.67 kB · 1 download holo_gen2_3014_768k_upgrade-20201231T222148Z-001.zip 202.73 kB · 0 downloads

 

Thank you!!

 

I could not find firmware upgrades for the may anywhere, where can I find these. 

 

It says 30.14 in my Asio info tab. Are there any specific benefits to 30.14? Does not make sense that the higher version does not include the upgrade. But it does not matter if it works. :)

 

Edit: these are spring firmware? I noticed after the update, when my dac was listed as spring in Roon. Going back to 3014 did not work. Did a driver/device cleanup, also does not work. I will contact Kitsune for support, I hope they have a May firmware they can send. 

[GoldenOne]

1 hour ago, Flextreme said:

 

Thank you!!

 

I could not find firmware upgrades for the may anywhere, where can I find these. 

 

It says 30.14 in my Asio info tab. Are there any specific benefits to 30.14? Does not make sense that the higher version does not include the upgrade. But it does not matter if it works. :)

 

Edit: these are spring firmware? I noticed after the update, when my dac was listed as spring in Roon. Going back to 3014 did not work. Did a driver/device cleanup, also does not work. I will contact Kitsune for support, I hope they have a May firmware they can send. 

That's just cause roon doesn't have tagging for the may yet (though they have reached out to holo for it apparently)  https://community.roonlabs.com/t/add-identification-for-holo-may-dac/115197

So it will have removed whatever custom name you had for it previously.

afaik 3014 is just for better compatibility with PCIe USB cards. If you don't have one or don't have any issues, try flashing the 3012, should allow you to use 1.5mhz (though ofc some PCIe cards may not allow this, so try with mobo connection)

Kitsune's latest drivers are here: https://www.kitsunehifi.com/product/holo-audio-may-dac/
Click the "Downloads" section.

[Flextreme]

2 minutes ago, GoldenOne said:

That's just cause roon doesn't have tagging for the may yet (though they have reached out to holo for it apparently)  https://community.roonlabs.com/t/add-identification-for-holo-may-dac/115197

So it will have removed whatever custom name you had for it previously.

afaik 3014 is just for better compatibility with PCIe USB cards. If you don't have one or don't have any issues, try flashing the 3012, should allow you to use 1.5mhz (though ofc some PCIe cards may not allow this, so try with mobo connection)

Kitsune's latest drivers are here: https://www.kitsunehifi.com/product/holo-audio-may-dac/
Click the "Downloads" section.

 

That is where I also originally got my drivers. That page specifically stated there is no firmware upgrade for May available. 

 

The firmwares are listed as Spring onoly firmware in the readme. I knew all this, so I never tried them.

 

*  Spring2 new usb firmware 30.12

*  Spring2 new usb firmware 30.14(only support up to pcm768k and dsd512). This firmware can be worked with those ‘hifi’ PCIE usb cards.

 

I assumed you sent me specific may firmware updates, and you got them privately from Kitsune. Luckily the firmware update tool still works.

 

 

 

 

[GoldenOne]

13 minutes ago, Flextreme said:

 

That is where I also originally got my drivers. That page specifically stated there is no firmware upgrade for May available. 

 

The firmwares are listed as Spring onoly firmware in the readme. I knew all this, so I never tried them.

 

*  Spring2 new usb firmware 30.12

*  Spring2 new usb firmware 30.14(only support up to pcm768k and dsd512). This firmware can be worked with those ‘hifi’ PCIE usb cards.

 

I assumed you sent me specific may firmware updates, and you got them privately from Kitsune. Luckily the firmware update tool still works.

 

 

 

 

There isn't a firmware update, just a firmware swap. (between 3012 and 3014). 

 

These are for the may, wildism (Asia official dealer for holo) gave them to me. I have no idea if the spring 2's upgraded usb firmware is the same as the may or not. (I think spring 2's upgraded module and the may share the same firmware but could be wrong) 

 

No one has mentioned if they've received any firmware update privately from kitsune so unfortunately I don't know what they're providing.

 

I did ask kitsune a while ago just in case they happened to have newer/different drivers or firmware than wildism (the drivers wildism gave me are actually a newer version than what kitsune has on their site) , but they told me they wouldn't provide any info/assistance cause I didn't order from them.  So no idea what's up. 

 

You can freely swap between the two firmware versions though. Because you were on 3014 that is why you weren't able to use 1.536mhz. If you swap to 3012 it will work. 

[Holzohr]

My Spring 2 came with the 30.14 firmware. I downloaded the USB driver/firmware package from the Kitsune site.

[Flextreme]

2 hours ago, GoldenOne said:

There isn't a firmware update, just a firmware swap. (between 3012 and 3014). 

 

These are for the may, wildism (Asia official dealer for holo) gave them to me. I have no idea if the spring 2's upgraded usb firmware is the same as the may or not. (I think spring 2's upgraded module and the may share the same firmware but could be wrong) 

 

No one has mentioned if they've received any firmware update privately from kitsune so unfortunately I don't know what they're providing.

 

I did ask kitsune a while ago just in case they happened to have newer/different drivers or firmware than wildism (the drivers wildism gave me are actually a newer version than what kitsune has on their site) , but they told me they wouldn't provide any info/assistance cause I didn't order from them.  So no idea what's up. 

 

You can freely swap between the two firmware versions though. Because you were on 3014 that is why you weren't able to use 1.536mhz. If you swap to 3012 it will work. 

 

The .bin file you provided is identical (on a bit level) to the .bin file in the official download, where Kitsune states that this one only is intended for the Spring (both on the website and in the readme). I can only assume it was a misunderstanding by wildism.

 

Did you use these firmwares on the May?

 

I'm only disappointed in myself, because I was not careful enough. I was not sure before flashing, and I assumed these were really May firmware. The firmware version was on the May was 3014 in my asio tool before flashing, so it all looked fine and dandy.

 

I did read everything displayed by in the firmware tool, but is does not mention Spring or May.  Too bad the 3014 firmware form the downloads does not work either, luckily the May is not bricked and the firmware tool still works.

 

This could be a easy fix, at least I hope so.   

 

I have not heard from the Kitsune Support yet

 

[GoldenOne]

49 minutes ago, Flextreme said:

 

The .bin file you provided is identical (on a bit level) to the .bin file in the official download, where Kitsune states that this one only is intended for the Spring (both on the website and in the readme). I can only assume it was a misunderstanding by wildism.

 

Did you use these firmwares on the May?

 

I'm only disappointed in myself, because I was not careful enough. I was not sure before flashing, and I assumed these were really May firmware. The firmware version was on the May was 3014 in my asio tool before flashing, so it all looked fine and dandy.

 

I did read everything displayed by in the firmware tool, but is does not mention Spring or May.  Too bad the 3014 firmware form the downloads does not work either, luckily the May is not bricked and the firmware tool still works.

 

This could be a easy fix, at least I hope so.   

 

I have not heard from the Kitsune Support yet

 

I'm not sure. These are the ones provided by wildism and they worked fine on my may (which has the may-specific upgraded USB). Additionally there is no may-specific firmware in the kitsune download. As I understand it, the Spring 2 "Gen 2" USB implementation and the may or may-upgraded USB use the same firmware, whilst the spring 1 (and some early spring 2's) use a different one. Though I have to say it is frustratingly unclear.

If you do hear back from Kitsune, would love to know what they say, I imagine there will be others who might chance on this thread whilst looking for may firmware stuff and it'd be helpful for many. Plus if there is a may specific firmware i'd want to put it on mine.

Hope you can get yours sorted for 1.5mhz!

(PS: Did you try running 3012?)

 

[GoldenOne]

Also, Wildism gave me v4.82 drivers for the may.
Kitsune only has v4.67 on the site.

So I have no idea what's going on or what's what. I do wish it was a bit more clear as to what firmware is the latest and what is for what.

[Flextreme]

can you share those drivers?

 

[GoldenOne]

4 minutes ago, Flextreme said:

can you share those drivers?

 

Yep! Attached

HoloAudio_v4.82.0_2020-01-20_setup.exe

[Flextreme]

the May has sound on my intel laptop, which has the 4.67 driver!

 

That is super encouraging

 

Thanks for the download!

 

It now seems like something is wrong on my PC, but now it seems like I just have to clean up/deinstall drivers/devices. 

 

Thanks for your support, this is a rocky road, but there is also progress. 😄

 

[Flextreme]

9 hours ago, GoldenOne said:

Yep! Attached

HoloAudio_v4.82.0_2020-01-20_setup.exe 2.25 MB · 1 download

 

Thank you!

 

Ok, finally I am back up and running, the 3014 is working, 3012 no sound, no matter what I try.

 

To add to my (our) confusion during this firmware swap process, I did not notice my amps power supply cable had disconnected on its own after I swapped back to 3014 on my PC, it was loosely connected somehow. This sometimes happens because the PSU cable is extremely stiff, but it was crazy accidental in timing. Maybe I have an audiophile poltergeist here 🤣

 

So I was working 2 issues at the same time without me realizing. 

 

Too bad the 3012 does not work for me. I have a gut feeling my AMD is part of the problem.

 

I will be skipping ultra-high res upsample rates for now, the May is an glorious machine as it is. Love to extract everything out of it, but I am madly in love with its sound, and my set-up overall right now.

 

Again, thanks for your support and suggestions. You should know I have read and enjoyed your comments here and on head-fi on the May and those helped my motivation to invest in the May.

 

 

[Iceaero]

5 hours ago, Flextreme said:

I will be skipping ultra-high res upsample rates for now, the May is an glorious machine as it is. Love to extract everything out of it, but I am madly in love with its sound, and my set-up overall right now.

I’ve had mine for a few weeks now, and since I’m using AES I’m sending everything to the May via HQPlayer at 192/20 and I have no complaints—the sound is just amazing.
 

One day perhaps I’ll reposition the May to be within USB range of my PC and try out some extreme high frequency PCM or DSD upsampling, but I’d rather this heavy unit sit on my AV cabinet than across the room with the PC. Maybe I’m happy not knowing what I’m missing...

 

(I was also quite surprised at that DC power cable’s stiffness!)

[Flextreme]

8 hours ago, Flextreme said:

Too bad the 3012 does not work for me. I have a gut feeling my AMD is part of the problem.

 

Had contact with Tim, he confirms AMD USB (and asmedia in my experience) can be the bottleneck, ultra high-res mostly does work on current Intel he said. 

 

Ultra high-res also does not work on some audiophile USB cards, which is fine by me. I'm curious if a Matrix Element H USB can improve the already excellent USB input of the May. Will test soon.

 

 

[Diavolo]

27 minutes ago, Flextreme said:

'm curious if a Matrix Element H USB can improve the already excellent USB input of the May. Will test soon.

 

No luck with my JCAT FEMTO USB PCIE card. Tim told me USB pcie don't work. 

[juanitox]

53 minutes ago, Diavolo said:

No luck with my JCAT FEMTO USB PCIE card. Tim told me USB pcie don't work. 

fortunatly ,  the Holo dacs sounds very good too in real NOS mode , give a try and you could be suprise about playing the native rate 🙂

[Flextreme]

Just now, juanitox said:

fortunatly ,  the Holo dacs sounds very good too in real NOS mode , give a try and you could be suprise about playing the native rate 🙂

 

I can only agree. Without doubt, using NOS with bit-perfect music, the May sounds glorious. 

 

But I use Roon's excellent EQ to give grow some moderate but really nice musical 'balls'  on my Arya. With EQ music is not bit-perfect anymore anyhow. I did found out that when upsampling within software first (Roon), when using EQ, it consistently sounded better than sticking to 44.1. 

 

[Diavolo]

41 minutes ago, juanitox said:

fortunatly ,  the Holo dacs sounds very good too in real NOS mode , give a try and you could be suprise about playing the native rate 🙂

 

I'm using the Intel usb on my new roon server so I'm able to play 1.536mhz or DSD1024 through HQPLAYER.  I agree NOS is good too. I never noticed any benefit to the JCAT Femto USB pcie card, truth be told. 

[ted_b]

1 hour ago, Diavolo said:

 

I'm using the Intel usb on my new roon server so I'm able to play 1.536mhz or DSD1024 through HQPLAYER.  I agree NOS is good too. I never noticed any benefit to the JCAT Femto USB pcie card, truth be told. 

If you are using HQplayer then NOS is your only real option.  Let HQP do the work and leave the dac to do less lifting, if any.

[Holzohr]

3 hours ago, Flextreme said:

 

I'm curious if a Matrix Element H USB can improve the already excellent USB input of the May. Will test soon.

 

 

 

I just have sold my Element H because of the 1411.2/1536kHz thing.

[Diavolo]

6 hours ago, ted_b said:

If you are using HQplayer then NOS is your only real option.  Let HQP do the work and leave the dac to do less lifting, if any.

 

Oh, I was referring to using NOS mode by itself with lossless redbook sans HQplayer which I was agreeing with the OP that it too sounds very good.  Sorry, I wasn't really clear. 

I mostly use HQplayer in PCM 1.536MHZ.  I think I'll go back to DSD1024 for awhile to compare them some more, but it's splitting hairs. I keep thinking DSD is just a tad smoother and hair less detailed than using PCM 1.536MHZ, but there are several other filters to try.  Honestly, I'm not much for fiddling around a lot with settings because it makes me a bit too focused and less relaxed trying to enjoy music. 

[ted_b]

Ah makes sense. 
Two questions:

1) what PCM HQP filter do you use most often at 1.5mhz?

2). When you say you will try DSD1024 are you saying with PCM material?  If DSD sources do you also convert to PCM 1.5mhz or keep those in DSD?

 

I ask cuz I seldom cross convert with my Spring dac. PCM sounds best at 8fs (highest I can go right now) using ext2, and DSD at DSD256 modulated with ASDM7EC. 
thx

[Diavolo]

3 hours ago, ted_b said:

Ah makes sense. 
Two questions:

1) what PCM HQP filter do you use most often at 1.5mhz?

2). When you say you will try DSD1024 are you saying with PCM material?  If DSD sources do you also convert to PCM 1.5mhz or keep those in DSD?

 

I ask cuz I seldom cross convert with my Spring dac. PCM sounds best at 8fs (highest I can go right now) using ext2, and DSD at DSD256 modulated with ASDM7EC. 
thx

Per Jussi, 

 

For DSD512-1024 you can try setting modulator to DSD5 and filter to
poly-sinc-ext2. This would likely work, but only if the computer is fast enough.

However, for optimal performance, you could use ASDM7EC modulator and
DSD256 output rate, if your computer is fast enough for that.

May and Spring 2 should work fine at DSD rates multiple of 48k. Spring 1
didn't (like most other DACs). So you can check the "48k DSD" box.
However, I'm not sure if the ASIO driver supports those rates. Then you
can set rate limit to wanted multiple of 48k.

Problem with 96k (and other 48k-family) content is if DAC or driver
doesn't support DSD at multiples of 48k. Then if either filter doesn't
support "Any" conversion ratio (refer to the table in manual), or
"Adaptive output rate" is checked in settings, leads to conflict between
requested output rate and what is possible and thus HQPlayer refuses to
play.

For maximum performance from PCM side of Holo Audio DACs, you should set
"DAC Bits" to 20. And then for output rates equal or higher than 352.8k-1.536mhz 
use LNS15 noise-shaper (NS5 and NS9 are also options).
-----END JUSSI SUGGESTIONS -----

As for me, I don't have any SACD or Native DSD files, with a few rare exceptions.

I seem to notice more people seem to prefer upsampling PCM to DSD when using Hqplayer, but never vice-versa to my knowledge.  Since 99% of my 4tb library (also Tidal's library via Roon) is native PCM 16bit along with the fact that I tend to prefer the sound of upsampled PCM 1.536MHZ over DSD Upsampling ever so slightly in a better reproduced upper frequency detail/leading edge so I usually keep it set that way, but I'm pretty sure I'm in the minority since like I said, I read posts from plenty who love converting 16bit PCM to DSD256-DSD512 which seems to me to slightly round the leading edge ever so slightly.   Some high-end DACS actually do this internally (partially or entirely) and intentionally even if they don't necessarily advertise it, though there are models that cater to people who want this feature especially for pcm to dsd upsampling.  Again, you're really splitting hairs here, it's what ever you prefer.  

[ted_b]

A boatload of dacs are sigma-delta and might as well get upsampled DSD material.  Since you own one of the truly unique (ok, maybe there are a few now that Denafrips and others have joined in) dac architectures that have BOTH a ladder side and a one-bit side, so us Holo owners get to choose.  I can't imagine native DSD sources sounding better at PCM 1.5Mhz, but ymmv.  But yes, keep all PCM sources in PCM and enjoy the 32fs.  :)  I am gonna get a hold of Tim and see if I can get my hands on a May soon, now that I am back in the listening business.  I love the Spring but itching to hear 32fs. 👍

[Diavolo]

17 minutes ago, ted_b said:

I am gonna get a hold of Tim and see if I can get my hands on a May soon, now that I am back in the listening business.  I love the Spring but itching to hear 32fs. 👍

 

Good luck buddy.  It's definitely the very best measuring resistor dac to date, at least to my knowledge which is, if for no other reason a SOTA Engineered masterpiece, that's simply the most natural and genuine sounding dac I've heard.  You're going to fall in love with it. My buddy bought one and he's ecstatic as well. I don't envy your wait, but maybe he's not as back logged now so it won't take too long.  I was pleasantly surprised when it showed up in only 2 weeks, but some have waited 4+ weeks. Congratulations on your decision. I'm excited for you. 😊