Dac Comparison

[ALLDIGITAL]

Happy Holidays AS Members! I am interested in two DAC's that I may decide to purchase. The DAC's under consideration are the MHDT Orchid and the Lampizator Amber 3. I am seeking feedback from users that have experience with either or both DAC's. My current system consists of an Innuos music server/streamer with a Hegel integrated amp/dac. Looking to capture a bit more analog sound or warmth to my digital frontend. Thanks in advance for your feedback.  

[Ralf11]

you'd need to do a listening test with both side by side, or at minimum, a listening comparison

 

anecdotal opinion is that the Lampizator is "analog" sounding, FWIW (not much)

 

or...

 

a nice tube pre-amp might make you happy if you run the DAC into it - I use an ARC LS25 Mk II partly as a euphonicizer...

[fas42]

Heard a Lampizator a couple of times, at audio shows. In the room where the setup was best sorted it demonstrated an ability to deliver the sound of the recording, without extra digital "nastiness", or dullness - thumbs up! Possible downside is that it may, like so much digital hardware, be susceptible to interference which significantly degrades what many people call, "analogue qualities" - I say this because when the Lampizator was fed, for a track or two only, from an Oppo used as the transport, there was far too much 'digititis' in the SQ.

[One and a half]

Perhaps a better solution is to analyse the setup between the source files and the (present and future) DAC and reduce the crud in the signal. The new DAC can then be bought on its merits, rather than try to cope with crud which will have a different signature with even the *same* DAC at the dealer and at home.

[ALLDIGITAL]

Thanks to everyone that posted a reply. Your comments are well taken. I would also like to hear from anyone who has used these DAC's in their system. I realize that opinions are subjective, but many of you are quite experienced at discerning the nuances between various components. I know you are out there. Cheers

[TubeLover]

On 12/28/2019 at 1:49 PM, ALLDIGITAL said:

Happy Holidays AS Members! I am interested in two DAC's that I may decide to purchase. The DAC's under consideration are the MHDT Orchid and the Lampizator Amber 3. I am seeking feedback from users that have experience with either or both DAC's. My current system consists of an Innuos music server/streamer with a Hegel integrated amp/dac. Looking to capture a bit more analog sound or warmth to my digital frontend. Thanks in advance for your feedback.  

Just wondering what you ended up purchasing and if you're happy. I am torn between the same exact DAC's for my office/den system. What got me considering the Orchid, in addition to the Lampizator, was this rave review by the noted Terry London at 6Moons. I also called him and we talked for a while, and he couldnt say enough about the orchid. And it even beat out a couple $10k DAC's he compared it with. :

 

https://6moons.com/audioreview_articles/mhdtlab/

 

If you did happen to end up with the Orchid, here is a link to a very interesting discussion about choosing between the Orchid and the  Amber 3. It also discusses some upgrades that can be done, fairly inexpensively, to take the Orchid to even greater levels!

 

JC

 

https://forum.audiogon.com/discussions/mhdt-orchid-or-lampizator-amber-3

 

 

[ALLDIGITAL]

Hi TubeLover. I have not purchased any Dac at this time. I am staying put for the time being for a many reasons. Still sorting out what direction I want to go in regarding a number of possible upgrades to DAC, amplification etc. You sparked my interest in the Orchid once again and I may try and test one in the future. Good luck. Alldigital

[tedwoods]

I haven't heard the Orchid but owned the Havana and the Stockholm2 and I now own an Amber 3.

The Amber 3 is not directly comparable with either of these DACs, I'm afraid.

mhdt DACs are cool, but they do have a "sound"...

A good balanced one, with tame highs, which lets you get away with lesser front ends for sure, but a "sound" nevertheless.

Lampizator is not like that...

It's a true high end DAC, a bittersweet pill by all accounts, but if you have a decent front end (Innuos, SOtM, etc) you are rewarded with a lifelike and dynamic presentation which lets you dig deep inside the recording.

The level of detail the Amber 3 provides is also remarkable: native resolution sounds like it's upsampled to DSD 512!

Furthermore, the Lampi is an all tube DAC from input to output, to rectifier, while mhdt are hybrid DACs with the I/V stage being transistor based and only having the tube act as an output buffer.

The 5670 tube mhdt uses is an ECC88 derivative with smaller plates and smaller overall size.

It was designed for low level signals and to be placed inside tube microphones and it's a great tube for that purpose.

The Lampi uses the ECC99 as input (a "super tube", as it's often called) and a 12AU7/ECC82 as output buffer plus a 6X5 rectifier (which is often used to provide power to output tubes, e.g. ECL82's), so quite different topology.

There are also grave differences in the digital section, where instead of the more "romantic" chip of the mhdt, the Lampi has a modern cutting edge delta-sigma chip and a firmware updated Amanero USB board with its own 5V supply, which means you can run an unpowered USB cable with substantial sound dividends.

Also, with the mhdt you get your money's worth, with the Lampi you get a sound that's worth much more than what you've paid...

Finally, a picture's worth a thousand words:

 

[ALLDIGITAL]

Ted, thanks so much for providing your detailed insights. I hope to have an opportunity in the future to do A/B testing in my system. 

[VoicesInMyHead]

I can only agree with everything @tedwoods writes above, I find the Amber III to be amazing value for the money. I've had a few other LampizatOr models before and I think the continued development and trickled down technology from the higher models has really made this "entry level" model something special. The vivid and lifelike presentation just adds layer on layer and it's just incredible fun and engaging listening to music. I tried to live without a Lampi for 1.5 year, big mistake, now I'm back again feeling happier than ever...  

[ALLDIGITAL]

rIkard, thanks for the sharing your experience. Best

[TubeLover]

On 3/21/2020 at 4:55 PM, rikard said:

I can only agree with everything @tedwoods writes above, I find the Amber III to be amazing value for the money. I've had a few other LampizatOr models before and I think the continued development and trickled down technology from the higher models has really made this "entry level" model something special. The vivid and lifelike presentation just adds layer on layer and it's just incredible fun and engaging listening to music. I tried to live without a Lampi for 1.5 year, big mistake, now I'm back again feeling happier than ever...  

Rikard, what DAC or DACs did you use in the 1.5 years you went without Lampizator. It would be interesting to know, for the sake of comparison. Thanks.

 

JC

[VoicesInMyHead]

17 hours ago, TubeLover said:

Rikard, what DAC or DACs did you use in the 1.5 years you went without Lampizator. It would be interesting to know, for the sake of comparison. Thanks.

 

I used a Lumin D2 and then a Lumin T2, which are not bad any of them, not at all, but it's something completely different. The separate Lumin U1 Mini and Amber with additional cables, isolation feets etc makes it quite a bit more expensive and I did enjoy the simple one box solution.

[TubeLover]

There are discussions going on in other audio discussion forums, by owners of both,  that suggest the "Grannyring mod" upgraded Orchid equals or possibly outperforms the Amber 3. And at half the price, all in. I've not heard either, so I can't comment personally, but just wanted to add some additional information for those considering both options.

 

The noted audio critic, Terry London, who now writes for 6 Moons, published a rave review of the Orchid a while ago, as a great DAC for the money. He recently commented that the upgraded Orchid and Amber 3 are both outclassed by yet another relatively affordable dac, the Audio Mirror Tubadour III SE (about $500.00 less than an Amber 3). Years back, I had a earlier version of the Tubadour, and it was a great little DAC for the $1000.0 price range, but Vlad, of Audio Mirror seems to have gone way upscale, using Dueland caps, Vishay resistors, Furutech ac parts, etc. 

 

Beyond those comments, I have no dog in this fight. my main system is digitally based around a Lampizator Golden Gate Series 1, that I may have until I die! 

 

JC

[tedwoods]

I was going though some old pics and I found one of my first "computer audiophile"system, which included the Havana DAC.

Thought I should post  it for some colour...

[TubeLover]

I just made the decision to go with purchasing the MHDT Orchid for my office system after an equipment failure over the past weekend left me with no existing viable DAC solution, and no way to listen to music. I use that system while working and researching nearly 40 hours a week, on average, so its extremely important.

 

While debating options, I re-read the comments associated with a guy named Bill (aka grannyring in a number of online audio forums). He is an ace audio tech, and thought so much of the stock Orchid, that he spent a great deal of time developing a major upgrade for it that takes it to a whole new level. This upgrade is very reasonable, and works wonders, based on comments from everyone who owns one, or has heard it. I posted a link to the one of the online forum discussions about this earlier in this discussion. In addition, besides the rave review by Terry London of 6Moons, and my discussions with him about the Orchid,I also had the opportunity this week to exchange e-mails, and/or speak with a few other respected audiophiles who owned, or demoed both the upgraded Orchid and the Amber 3,  in their home systems. 

 

In addition, people have been experimenting with a wide variety of tubes for the Orchid, and one of them hit on an apparently magical upgrade by using a high quality tube adaptor, and then selecting an apparentlybrilliant, though not often implemented, Mullard NOS tube from the 50's that used the same level of power as the tube in the Orchid. When we communicated, he stated that he was absolutely amazed at the quality of the sound he was now hearing from the Orchid that Bill had modded for him, with the new tube. Per my discussion , it simply makes the Orchid even, another notch higher.. 

 

In further discussions with someone who owns  one of Bills modded Orchid DAC's, as well as the Lampizator Amber 3, he told me the sound quality was clearly in favor of the upgraded Orchid (and he doesn't even have the new tube setup yet). At just a bit over half of the Amber 3's price, I think I made the right choice, despite being a big fan of all of Lukasz's work, and Lampizator, in general. I do, after all, own the Golden Gate. 

 

JC 

[ALLDIGITAL]

JC, thanks for sharing your experience and discussions with other users that have relevant experience with this DAC. I am now more motivated to audition the Orchid. Best regards. ALLDIGITAL stay safe!

 

[OldBigEars]

How would these DAC's (Orchid and Lampi Amber) compare with RME and Matrix DAC's?  You know....the ultimate DAC's according to ASR and other objectivists.