Warming up for best performance.

[STC]

7 minutes ago, fas42 said:

ST, if you want to worry about, say, technical solutions to acoustics, etc, that's fine by me ... what I'm after is the magic of immersive sound in the room, which never has to make excuses. Ever.

 

To me, this is 'superior' as an experience ... and I'll leave it as that ...

You do not know the meaning of “immersive”. It got nothing to do with soldering or the direct sound. 

[fas42]

"Immersive" is what the playing of live, acoustic instruments in close proximity delivers - and achieving that from audio replay has everything to do with the overall integrity of the setup.

[sandyk]

 

What has any of this have to do with the actual subject of the thread ?

[STC]

2 minutes ago, sandyk said:

 

What has any of this have to do with the actual subject of the thread ?

Fas42, is an expert in slipping in his mantra in almost any thread that I start no matter how irrelevant it is to the subject matter. 

[STC]

8 minutes ago, fas42 said:

"Immersive" is what the playing of live, acoustic instruments in close proximity delivers - and achieving that from audio replay has everything to do with the overall integrity of the setup.

That is BS. Try playing in an anechoic room and your definition of immersive becomes meaningless. 

[sandyk]

2 minutes ago, STC said:

Fas42, is an expert in slipping in his mantra in almost any thread that I start no matter how irrelevant it is to the subject matter. 

   If you were the resident Scientist from an entirely different discipline, you would long ago used your powers as the OP of the thread.

 Perhaps you all just like ganging up on  Frank ?

[Ralf11]

Perhaps Frank is a bot?

[STC]

12 minutes ago, sandyk said:

   If you were the resident Scientist from an entirely different discipline, you would long ago used your powers as the OP of the thread.

 Perhaps you all just like ganging up on  Frank ?

No one is ganging up against anyone. In fact, I am probably in more list of “ ignore” than Frank. When I was wrong the whole gang whom I call the eminent of 14 ganged up against me. The point is whether they were correct or not. The point is whether I was correct or not. And listened and contribute and if you are wrong admit it. Or if you are looking at the question from another angle try your best to put across your idea.  But don’t keep posting the same thing over and over again to make a point when it couldn’t  be demonstrated or backup. 
 

I asked whether he is will to take the test of recording from various speakers. Total silence. 
 

He claimed he could recognize a real piano and I gave a sample. Nothing there too. 
 

I asked each steps he has done in his NAD. Nothing useful there. 
 

And now he is coming with immersive which got thing to do with the sound from the source. I guess now you will be ganging up on me. Oh yes, there were four of you in support of him. Go ahead Alex. 

[Ralf11]

four?

 

four australians?

 

 

[STC]

7 minutes ago, Ralf11 said:

Perhaps Frank is a bot?

I am actually looking through all the photos of the Melbourne and Sydney Audio clubs to see a regular face to see how he managed 100s of visits over 35 years. 

[STC]

12 minutes ago, Ralf11 said:

four?

 

four australians?

 

 

No. And Alex is exempted because he at least put something on the table to prove his point. 

[sandyk]

5 minutes ago, STC said:

I guess now you will be ganging up on me. Oh yes, there were four of you in support of him. Go ahead Alex. 

Why on earth would I do that ? I enjoy seeing threads from you like this one started out, as well as your interesting repair jobs and the photos.

 If you look carefully, you will see that I frequently poke fun at Frank just like with the earlier dig about DolbyA , but I try not to be too pointed about it. 

 The less that you guys take pot shots at Frank, the less he will feel the need to reply with the same stock type answers.

 Surely most of us, excluding perhaps Tom and Ralf11 ,   have enough will power not to bother  to keep replying with the same answers to the same kind of statements by Frank ?

[STC]

4 minutes ago, sandyk said:

The less that you guys take pot shots at Frank, the less he will feel the need to reply with the same stock type answers.

People got short short memory. They do not remember their audiophile journey. I believe we hear differently and I value everyone’s opinions. Few years ago, Franks posted a YouTube and claimed that was the perfect audio playback. I took it seriously and listened to them for a day or two. 
 

I always believe that we are programmed to hear what we wanted to hear unless guided by a reference. Recently, while evaluating John Dyson samples I knew something was wrong And I pointed out. When I did not get the confirmation from him I thought I could be wrong and asked my family members to listen to them to give the their feedback. None of the noticed what I heard. I then muted one channel and pointed out what to listen. Now everyone heard them. Because of many incidences like this, I respect everyone opinions. 
 

but in Frank’s case, he is not here to see from other people perspective nor offered anything that you cannot find from reading the reviews. He is here to assert there is a magic which can be achieved once in a while and you are supposed to discover by yourself. And all I am asking WTF it is and show me what exactly to do because I got all the time and tools to do it. 
 

Speaking of immersive, I know what I am talking because I can repeat everything what Blauert and Toole is saying. You can only quote them but I can demo them. 

[Ralf11]

The less that you guys take pot shots at Frank, the more he will post

[sandyk]

1 minute ago, Ralf11 said:

The less that you guys take pot shots at Frank, the more he will post

 

 

Just like you do ?

[fas42]

2 hours ago, sandyk said:

 

What has any of this have to do with the actual subject of the thread ?

 

Warming up, conditioning is an important part of have the system working to an adequate level - my original Perreaux power amp had no trouble doing this, the monster laminated transformer got almost hand burning hot, and on those heat wave days I was checking things fairly often, to make sure all was still OK ...

 

2 hours ago, STC said:

That is BS. Try playing in an anechoic room and your definition of immersive becomes meaningless. 

 

Well, duhh ... I reckon I've come across this situation at least, ummm ...

 

1 hour ago, STC said:

 

I asked whether he is will to take the test of recording from various speakers. Total silence. 
 

He claimed he could recognize a real piano and I gave a sample. Nothing there too. 
 

I asked each steps he has done in his NAD. Nothing useful there. 
 

And now he is coming with immersive which got thing to do with the sound from the source. I guess now you will be ganging up on me. Oh yes, there were four of you in support of him. Go ahead Alex. 

 

We're talking about how to improve a system setup to the point that its delivers the type of convincing sound I talk of. Warming up is part of the 'strategy' - nothing miraculous there ...

 

Whether I can identify something is irrelevant - what counts is getting the SQ which makes the listening special.

 

ST, you want to learn to paint by using one of those Paint by Numbers kits - most creative people realise that slavish colouring in is not going to produce a masterpiece, 😉.

 

1 hour ago, STC said:

People got short short memory. They do not remember their audiophile journey. I believe we hear differently and I value everyone’s opinions. Few years ago, Franks posted a YouTube and claimed that was the perfect audio playback. I took it seriously and listened to them for a day or two. 
 

 

No, that was not "perfect playback" - you always overreach, ST, which means we have these silly interludes. The recordings were snapshots of the rig at that time, when it was working decently - but still hadn't hit the quality I'm after ... and I stated such clearly, in the posts, etc.

 

Quote

 

but in Frank’s case, he is not here to see from other people perspective nor offered anything that you cannot find from reading the reviews. He is here to assert there is a magic which can be achieved once in a while and you are supposed to discover by yourself. And all I am asking WTF it is and show me what exactly to do because I got all the time and tools to do it. 

 

 

Correct. In the first instance. But you don't have to "discover it by yourself". My approach is to have a back and forward session - and surmise from that what might be worth looking at - this is exactly how I work with the local audio friend ... he presents the latest iteration of the state of the system; I, or he, notice some anomaly; he reacts by altering, trying things; and we steadily progress the setup to a better standard.

 

A number of times I've tried to prod other people to be forthcoming about "what's not quite right" - but they rapidly clam up ... end of conversation.

 

 

[fas42]

Just to embed in this thread an account of what happens, by another 'experimenter' - this is a quote from another forum, https://www.diyaudio.com/forums/multi-way/177403-linkwitz-orions-beaten-behringer-153.html

 

Quote

I could walk up to and around the whole speaker without the sound coming from the speaker at all. It was uncanny. Not 360 deg, but a fair amount. First time I heard it was a wooden Iwata horn on an Onken bass bin (don't remember the tweeter). It's one of those strange events you don't forget. The sound just didn't stick to the speaker at all. It always sounded like it was somewhere else. Have heard it since, but it's rare.

 

As Pano says, it's rare - but so distinct that you never mistake what's going on.

[sandyk]

1 hour ago, fas42 said:

Warming up, conditioning is an important part of have the system working to an adequate level - my original Perreaux power amp had no trouble doing this, the monster laminated transformer got almost hand burning hot, and on those heat wave days I was checking things fairly often, to make sure all was still OK …

 

 I wasn't referring to this. I was referring to the to and fro off topic stuff.

[STC]

1 hour ago, fas42 said:

Well, duhh ... I reckon I've come across this situation at least, ummm ..

 

So too about 1% of the Americans. Not sure of the percentage over there. 

 

1 hour ago, fas42 said:

 

Whether I can identify something is irrelevant - what counts is getting the SQ which makes the listening special.

Nope, you mentioned 100s of rigs. Be consistent. 

 

1 hour ago, fas42 said:

The recordings were snapshots of the rig at that time, when it was working decently -

Look again at the post. 

 

1 hour ago, fas42 said:

My approach is to have a back and forward session - and surmise from that what might be worth looking at

to that you must have some for of records. Like the measurements or actual audio recordings. None of which you have reproduced except for plucking in excerpts from here and there and modify them. Btw, which one is you in the Sydney Audio Club?  Do you know the link?  

[STC]

2 hours ago, fas42 said:

Just to embed in this thread an account of what happens, by another 'experimenter' - this is a quote from another forum, https://www.diyaudio.com/forums/multi-way/177403-linkwitz-orions-beaten-behringer-153.html

 

 

As Pano says, it's rare - but so distinct that you never mistake what's going on.

 

I remember engaging with Pano in the past and I think I know what you guys are referring to. The idea is correct but your understanding and description wasn’t clear.
 

I thought about the piano sound that you described in 

and now it makes perfect sense what you are after. Let me see if I can make a sample of what you are trying to describe. 
 

and you are right, the more you treat the room, you are not going to get the magic. It is not so complicated after all. 

 

 

[Michaelb4]

Sorry for my less than prompt response. Posts here overwhelm me a little. 

 

I really like the Benchmark Amp. It plays softly well and is pleasant to hear. I hide the amp in a cabinet so ability to turn it off when not in use is helpful. 

[fas42]

 

14 hours ago, STC said:

Nope, you mentioned 100s of rigs. Be consistent. 

 

 

Your comment here doesn't make sense, to me.

 

14 hours ago, STC said:

Look again at the post. 

 

Which post?

 

14 hours ago, STC said:

to that you must have some for of records. Like the measurements or actual audio recordings. None of which you have reproduced except for plucking in excerpts from here and there and modify them. Btw, which one is you in the Sydney Audio Club?  Do you know the link?  

 

I don't take measurements. It wouldn't tell me a damn thing, and the type of measuring which would be useful is still to be determined ...

 

I don't do recordings ... the ones I've put up are it, because I didn't have gear that was any good at recording before that; and I'm more concerned with getting the playback setup to a state that satisfies me - even the operation of the recording gear can disturb the SQ - it's all electronics, existing in the same room.

 

Pretty sure there are zero photos of me from the club - you mean, you want to see my ugly mug ??! 😝

[STC]

10 minutes ago, fas42 said:

Your comment here doesn't make sense, to me.

 

The feeling is mutual. 

 

11 minutes ago, fas42 said:

Pretty sure there are zero photos of me from the club - you mean, you want to see my ugly mug ??! 😝

10 minutes ago, fas42 said:

Which post?

1) I want to see you listening to 100s of rigs. 

 

2) that’s the problem of posting in every thread. You simply can’t keep track. 
 

[Racerxnet]

Warm up the Pre-amp. Nope, don't have one

Warm up the Amp. Nope, don't have one.

Warm up the DAC. Nope don't have one.

Warm up the Speakers. Why bother

Low end response to 16hz. Nope can't do it

 

Sounds like Frank's system amounts to nothing.

Frank, change the "F"to a P and we have Prank! 

 

Seriously Frank, your laptop cannot compete in any sense of the term "system". It could not fill a ample sized room with any amount of decent sound that would be inspiring. As well, most very high end systems that are very true to the source sound very good with very good recordings, or crap with crap recordings. They cannot and will not make a silk purse from a sows arse. Their purpose is to be faithful to the recording. The laptop is a POS, and always will be for playback. You talk A LOT, about nothing, for the purpose of hearing yourself talk.

 

A system is :

The room

Treatments

Very good speakers

Room correction

Well engineered components that mate well and match the application. 

Properly constructed interconnects and cables. No need for snake oil garbage.

Bit perfect output on a dedicated PC.

 

 

MAK

[fas42]

1 hour ago, STC said:

 

 

1) I want to see you listening to 100s of rigs. 

 

 

In this day and age, that a photo means anything, anymore ... 🙂 the point is, that I was searching to see if anyone else was on the same wavelength as myself - just a couple; a HP setup copy using vinyl, another using a very well designed, long time extinct amplifier ...