Popular Post gmgraves Posted October 20, 2019 Popular Post Share Posted October 20, 2019 19 hours ago, fas42 said: Unfortunately, warming up is a bit part of achieving the SQ I chase. On switch on from cold, the quality can be pretty dreadful, to my ears, and it will requires hours of solid conditioning of everything, especially the speaker drivers, until decent performance is reached. This is a very big part of why it's so difficult to "present it on a platter" - there's an excellent chance that one, tiny little thing has not stabilised enough, or conversely, that some area of the system has degraded in that time frame, for some stupid reason, while waiting for everything else "to be right" - so, for that session, "I ain't got nothing!" ... 🙄. The real engineering challenge is to ensure that one can state quite emphatically that given a certain sequence of warming up procedures, and that within a sensible time frame - minutes, not hours, days, etc, etc - that the SQ is at an acceptable level. Anything else is an admission of failure, as far as I'm concerned - if you're trying to do commercial product. Which is why I'm still experimenting ... 😉. You know, Frank, If you actually acquired some real equipment (especially speakers) then your "SQ chasing" wouldn't seem so laughable to the rest of us. The idea of working about system SQ when your idea of speakers are a pair out of a ghetto blaster boom-box! audiobomber, STC, Ralf11 and 1 other 1 2 1 George Link to comment
fas42 Posted October 20, 2019 Share Posted October 20, 2019 You probably won't get it in a million years, George ... 😜 You see, I've heard 100's of systems with "real equipment (especially speakers)" - and they all ... sound ...like ... shit - to me. I'm too busy flinching at the awfulness with which they are reproducing recordings I'm very familiar with, to have time left over to marvel at how swish they look ... I might as well get into someone's Porsche, of which they are very proud - and be constantly reminded that the vehicle is much closer to being a worn out rust bucket ... Teresa 1 Link to comment
Popular Post kumakuma Posted October 20, 2019 Popular Post Share Posted October 20, 2019 57 minutes ago, fas42 said: You see, I've heard 100's of systems with "real equipment (especially speakers)" - and they all ... sound ...like ... shit - to me. The fact that you are the only one I have ever met who has had this experience strongly suggests that your opinions have zero relevance to anyone but yourself, and your continuing attempts to proselytize are a waste of both your own time and the time of everyone else here. Hugo9000, audiobomber, Teresa and 2 others 3 2 Sometimes it's like someone took a knife, baby Edgy and dull and cut a six inch valley Through the middle of my skull Link to comment
fas42 Posted October 20, 2019 Share Posted October 20, 2019 Obviously, George was having a bit of a go, at me ... and I was just returning, in kind, 😄. No, they're not that bad - but they always sound like a hifi system; and not the "real thing". The latter is the standard I aspire to - I once knew someone who was a camera fanatic, obsessed with the equipment; couldn't stop talking about his newest acquisition, or what he was drooling over, as "next on the block" .. what did he have to show for his 'efforts' ? ... ummm, they looked a bit like ordinary snapshots to me ... 🙂 Now, it's a great hobby to have fun with equipment - but my interest is in what the equipment can do. People who are interested in experiencing recordings as powerful, emotionally moving moments in music making and creativity might find relevance in what I talk about - if they are prepared to take it seriously ... Teresa 1 Link to comment
Popular Post kumakuma Posted October 20, 2019 Popular Post Share Posted October 20, 2019 5 minutes ago, fas42 said: People who are interested in experiencing recordings as powerful, emotionally moving moments in music making and creativity might find relevance in what I talk about - if they are prepared to take it seriously ... I'd be willing to bet that most people here are already experiencing this. I know I am. Ralf11 and Teresa 1 1 Sometimes it's like someone took a knife, baby Edgy and dull and cut a six inch valley Through the middle of my skull Link to comment
sandyk Posted October 20, 2019 Share Posted October 20, 2019 6 minutes ago, kumakuma said: I'd be willing to bet that most people here are already experiencing this. I know I am. Then your brain must be filling in a lot of the missing information, just like Frank's brain does when he is using his laptop's speakers. However, I am also aware that Frank will upgrade his system when he can afford to do this. How a Digital Audio file sounds, or a Digital Video file looks, is governed to a large extent by the Power Supply area. All that Identical Checksums gives is the possibility of REGENERATING the file to close to that of the original file. PROFILE UPDATED 13-11-2020 Link to comment
Ralf11 Posted October 21, 2019 Share Posted October 21, 2019 Can't Frank do what Teresa did? maybe he can hire her for advice, or as a secret shopper. The brain 'filling in information' is a well known phenomenon in cognitive psychology, neuro-science & etc. It will likely be common in robotics/AI too. Hence my stmt. "There is a very thin line between pattern recognition and pattern imposition." ... more of a zone of overlap I suppose; and just another reason that blind testing is needed to be a Good Subjectivist Teresa 1 Link to comment
fas42 Posted October 21, 2019 Share Posted October 21, 2019 1 hour ago, sandyk said: Then your brain must be filling in a lot of the missing information, just like Frank's brain does when he is using his laptop's speakers. However, I am also aware that Frank will upgrade his system when he can afford to do this. Yes, of course my mind is filling in when listening to the laptop's audio system - especially the "new" one, a small form Toshiba; speaker openings as big as your thumbnail, 😉. "Afford to" is not the right term - tuning back in is more the go ... these days, I lose the momentum to do things very easily, and quickly - then I have to be 'inspired again', to go the next round ... it's a major bummer, actually ...😞. It's not the 'easy' recordings that need to deliver - it's the 'messy', 'poorly recorded', "audiophile nightmare" albums that I want to make work as pleasurable listening - I have an Ike and Tina Turner CD here that will rip major chunks of skin off eardrums on normal playback, the sound is so 'sharp', 😜. Teresa 1 Link to comment
Popular Post sandyk Posted October 21, 2019 Popular Post Share Posted October 21, 2019 5 minutes ago, fas42 said: I have an Ike and Tina Turner CD here that will rip major chunks of skin off eardrums on normal playback, the sound is so 'sharp', 😜 Perhaps it uses UNDECODED DolbyA ? Teresa and wdw 1 1 How a Digital Audio file sounds, or a Digital Video file looks, is governed to a large extent by the Power Supply area. All that Identical Checksums gives is the possibility of REGENERATING the file to close to that of the original file. PROFILE UPDATED 13-11-2020 Link to comment
STC Posted October 21, 2019 Author Share Posted October 21, 2019 On 10/20/2019 at 7:32 AM, Ralf11 said: * I am thinking about 'edge detection' here I am thinking a good 30 minutes in the microwave oven. ST My Ambiophonics System with Virtual Concert Hall Ambience Link to comment
STC Posted October 21, 2019 Author Share Posted October 21, 2019 9 minutes ago, fas42 said: Afford to" is not the right term - tuning back in is more the go ... these days, I lose the momentum to do things very easily, and quickly - then I have to be 'inspired again', to go the next round ... it's a major bummer, actually ...😞 I don’t see you slowing down when it comes to posting with your mantra in this forum. Perhaps, reality is finally sinking in that you have been chasing ghost all these years? Teresa 1 ST My Ambiophonics System with Virtual Concert Hall Ambience Link to comment
STC Posted October 21, 2019 Author Share Posted October 21, 2019 2 hours ago, fas42 said: You probably won't get it in a million years, George ... 😜 You see, I've heard 100's of systems with "real equipment (especially speakers)" - and they all ... sound ...like ... shit - to me. I'm too busy flinching at the awfulness with which they are reproducing recordings I'm very familiar with, to have time left over to marvel at how swish they look ... I might as well get into someone's Porsche, of which they are very proud - and be constantly reminded that the vehicle is much closer to being a worn out rust bucket ... I can easily debunk you. I can make recording of the same track at same level at same distance. And all you have to do is guess the price and rate them. but like always, you will now come with another excuse. ST My Ambiophonics System with Virtual Concert Hall Ambience Link to comment
Popular Post kumakuma Posted October 21, 2019 Popular Post Share Posted October 21, 2019 16 minutes ago, fas42 said: "Afford to" is not the right term - tuning back in is more the go ... these days, I lose the momentum to do things very easily, and quickly - then I have to be 'inspired again', to go the next round ... it's a major bummer, actually ...😞. I find that listening to music helps. Teresa, Ralf11 and fas42 2 1 Sometimes it's like someone took a knife, baby Edgy and dull and cut a six inch valley Through the middle of my skull Link to comment
STC Posted October 21, 2019 Author Share Posted October 21, 2019 2 hours ago, fas42 said: You see, I've heard 100's of systems with "real equipment (especially speakers)" - and they all ... sound ...like ... shit - to me. Just curious how did you manage to listen to so many systems? I am in a small country and most of the audiophiles in this country are concentrated about 1 hour radius. Australia is a large country. I don’t think there can be that many audiophiles within your area. The last time, when I wanted to visit a designer in Margaret River, I couldn’t anyone. Even in this forum, I think there could be 10. And among them probably 1 or 2 would welcome me. So Frank, What’s your secret? And how you managed them? At least share the pictures. Teresa 1 ST My Ambiophonics System with Virtual Concert Hall Ambience Link to comment
fas42 Posted October 21, 2019 Share Posted October 21, 2019 20 minutes ago, sandyk said: Perhaps it uses UNDECODED DolbyA ? Ummm, a combo of Ike's mastering, and the equipment of the time, including a very dodgy tape capture of a live show or two - ABBA is sweetness and light, in comparison, 😉. Why it's worthwhile 'rescuing' such recordings is that they capture amazing energy - the drive, the pulse of the music is fabulous ... this is what makes going to the efforts so rewarding. Link to comment
Popular Post kumakuma Posted October 21, 2019 Popular Post Share Posted October 21, 2019 22 minutes ago, fas42 said: Why it's worthwhile 'rescuing' such recordings is that they capture amazing energy - the drive, the pulse of the music is fabulous ... this is what makes going to the efforts so rewarding. There are thousands of other albums with the same qualities that don't require herculean efforts to enjoy. Teresa and Ralf11 1 1 Sometimes it's like someone took a knife, baby Edgy and dull and cut a six inch valley Through the middle of my skull Link to comment
fas42 Posted October 21, 2019 Share Posted October 21, 2019 41 minutes ago, STC said: I don’t see you slowing down when it comes to posting with your mantra in this forum. Perhaps, reality is finally sinking in that you have been chasing ghost all these years? I have always been frustrated by the fact that so few people "get it" - that, combined with listening to someone's "masterpiece of a rig" and having to work out what I can say nice, if asked, 😜. Not a ghost, but a mirage - it's an illusion that requires precisely the right conditions to manifest - getting a system close to that point rewards one with plenty of very decent sound - which is good enough as a way station in the journey. 34 minutes ago, STC said: I can easily debunk you. I can make recording of the same track at same level at same distance. And all you have to do is guess the price and rate them. but like always, you will now come with another excuse. Huhh? What's the price to do with it? ... I rate playback on the basis of whether I can hear the setup misbehaving; depending upon the recording, and what I using to evaluate the capture -- the best is obviously to be there in person -- I may or may not hear some problem. 27 minutes ago, STC said: Just curious how did you manage to listen to so many systems? I am in a small country and most of the audiophiles in this country are concentrated about 1 hour radius. Australia is a large country. I don’t think there can be that many audiophiles within your area. The last time, when I wanted to visit a designer in Margaret River, I couldn’t anyone. Even in this forum, I think there could be 10. And among them probably 1 or 2 would welcome me. So Frank, What’s your secret? And how you managed them? At least share the pictures. Remember, I've been interested in this for 35 years ... went over and over again to dealers, and people demonstrating in private homes - in the Sydney, and Brisbane area, people living way out in the country; went to the main hifi club in Sydney for years, all the demos, sometimes two lots of gear, every month - and the circuit of people going to each other's homes from that club. Perhaps, take the 's' of 100's ... 😉 I've already said, I don't do pics - had a burst of hobby enthusiasm for photography when I was young; and once I lost interest, I couldn't be bothered with this sort of thing ... it was what was happening for the ears, not the eyes, that mattered. Do you mean, how did I manage to get the systems to the right level? If that's what you're asking, well, I keep repeating over and over again what I worry about, and my approach ... Link to comment
fas42 Posted October 21, 2019 Share Posted October 21, 2019 3 minutes ago, kumakuma said: There are thousands of other albums with the same qualities that don't require herculean efforts to enjoy. Of course! However, my interest is in pushing the boundaries - I enjoy the challenge of getting some rough and ready recording to come good ... because I know the better the system is in delivering that, the more I can put on absolutely any recording, no matter how old or decrepit, that I have never, ever heard before - and it will come alive, deliver listening satisfaction in spades. Link to comment
Popular Post kumakuma Posted October 21, 2019 Popular Post Share Posted October 21, 2019 5 minutes ago, fas42 said: Of course! However, my interest is in pushing the boundaries - I enjoy the challenge of getting some rough and ready recording to come good ... because I know the better the system is in delivering that, the more I can put on absolutely any recording, no matter how old or decrepit, that I have never, ever heard before - and it will come alive, deliver listening satisfaction in spades. The fact that you can't actually summon up the energy to create such a system is the universe sending you a message. Teresa and Ralf11 2 Sometimes it's like someone took a knife, baby Edgy and dull and cut a six inch valley Through the middle of my skull Link to comment
STC Posted October 21, 2019 Author Share Posted October 21, 2019 18 minutes ago, fas42 said: mirage - it's an illusion that requires precisely the right conditions to manifest - That has been established a century ago how to make the illusion work. You add nothing to it. 19 minutes ago, fas42 said: Huhh? What's the price to do with it? ... I rate playback on the basis of whether I can hear the setup misbehaving; depending upon the recording, The question was - dare you to take up the challenge. I will even do a favour considering that your laptop speakers are not working properly, I will only use one speaker. See how cleverly you avoided answering that like always. 21 minutes ago, fas42 said: I've already said, I don't do pics - had a burst of hobby enthusiasm for photography when I was young; and once I lost interest Why? You took one fine picture 35 years ago and since then soldering and desoldering the camera? Anyone in this forum visited listened to fas42 system? ST My Ambiophonics System with Virtual Concert Hall Ambience Link to comment
STC Posted October 21, 2019 Author Share Posted October 21, 2019 19 minutes ago, kumakuma said: The fact that you can't actually summon up the energy to create such a system is the universe sending you a message. because it only exists in his mind. Teresa 1 ST My Ambiophonics System with Virtual Concert Hall Ambience Link to comment
fas42 Posted October 21, 2019 Share Posted October 21, 2019 13 minutes ago, kumakuma said: The fact that you can't actually summon up the energy to create such a system is the universe sending you a message. Ummm, the universe is sending plenty of messages, in all sorts of other activities, that I've slowed down a lot - and I mean, a lot ... I used to take great joy in playing with programming code; nowadays, I burn out within half a hour if I look at this sort of stuff ... Link to comment
fas42 Posted October 21, 2019 Share Posted October 21, 2019 2 minutes ago, STC said: That has been established a century ago how to make the illusion work. You add nothing to it. The question was - dare you to take up the challenge. I will even do a favour considering that your laptop speakers are not working properly, I will only use one speaker. See how cleverly you avoided answering that like always. Why? You took one fine picture 35 years ago and since then soldering and desoldering the camera? Anyone in this forum visited listened to fas42 system? ST, too many times the same retorts from you ... No, no-one from the forum has heard one ... the giveaway was when an audiophile and his wife about 12 years ago listened to a setup in reasonable, not ideal state - he was busy making mental notes; she was bouncing around, having a great time, groovin' to the music ... she knew instantly it was 'right', and wasn't worried about anything else ... Or, a classics fan - she was scared it was too loud, for the "big ending" she knew was coming ... the sound just rolled over us, just like it does in real life, without "any damage being done". Link to comment
STC Posted October 21, 2019 Author Share Posted October 21, 2019 1 minute ago, fas42 said: No, no-one from the forum has heard one ... the giveaway was when an audiophile and his wife about 12 years ago listened to a setup in reasonable, not ideal state - he was busy making mental notes; she was bouncing around, having a great time, groovin' to the music ... she knew instantly it was 'right', and wasn't worried about anything else ... Or, a classics fan - she was scared it was too loud, for the "big ending" she knew was coming ... the sound just rolled over us, just like it does in real life, without "any damage being done" Hearsay. Usually, the root for so many problems. Same like saying someone told you something and therefore the rest must follow what you are saying because the someone is far superior than you. Sounds familiar? Teresa 1 ST My Ambiophonics System with Virtual Concert Hall Ambience Link to comment
fas42 Posted October 21, 2019 Share Posted October 21, 2019 ST, if you want to worry about, say, technical solutions to acoustics, etc, that's fine by me ... what I'm after is the magic of immersive sound in the room, which never has to make excuses. Ever. To me, this is 'superior' as an experience ... and I'll leave it as that ... Link to comment
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