The Environmental thread + Conventional (HI-FI) wisdom is almost always invariably wrong

[Jud]

20 minutes ago, Priaptor said:

Not sure what you are referring to.  
 

I have met with more engineers than I care to name and have met with and attended more hearings than I care to have attended and there is no doubt that the problem especially in Brickell is inadequate drainage starving the Everglades and leading to other ecological disasters in S FL.  The same catastrophic reason for flooding in the Ft Lauderdale area. The combination of inappropriate drainage, with king tides during a storm with overflow into the intracoastal has required changes in building codes. 
 

The relationship between flooding in areas of Dade and Broward is literally linear to the overbuilding. You think there had never been drainage in Miami?  I think you need to study the complex ecosystem of drainage in the area. There was always drainage and the interference with it has literally wreaked havoc. 
 

Between the overbuilding, stagnation of water and sugar industry getting a by the perfect storm has occurred in SE FL. 
 

Feel free to blame it on global warming if you like. By no means am I ignoring global warming but the current ecological catastrophe of SE FL is hardly that   
 

As I said: And The Band Played On. 

 

I agree that overbuilding has had a tremendous negative impact. My reference to fair weather flooding was meant to emphasize a dimension of the problem where rainwater and drainage aren't involved.

 

South Florida is a very thin layer of dirt and fresh water overlying porous ancient mangrove swamps and coral reefs with seawater flowing through it. The mechanism of fair weather flooding is that the seawater rises and pushes the fresh water layer above ground level. As climate warms and sea level rises, this is happening more often.

[Priaptor]

Just now, Jud said:

 

I agree that overbuilding has had a tremendous negative impact. My reference to fair weather flooding was meant to emphasize a dimension of the problem where rainwater and drainage aren't involved.

 

South Florida is a very thin layer of dirt and fresh water overlying porous ancient mangrove swamps and coral reefs with seawater flowing through it. The mechanism of fair weather flooding is that the seawater rises and pushes the fresh water layer above ground level. As climate warms and sea level rises, this is happening more often.

Thanks for the clarification. Don't disagree and what you reference as you indicate will get worse as climate change gets worse and as a result of the overbuilding in this fragile ecosystem will have a much more amplified effect than to the contrary, I don't have much hope the Everglades can be saved. Kind of like the Colorado River Delta, too many inertia to care about the ecological and environmental catastrophes. We now release a little bit of water to the delta to give some "life" which winds up doing more damage. Another discussion for another time. Crazy. 

[semente]

On 10/2/2021 at 7:56 PM, Priaptor said:

inertia

 

"Inertia" is not a word I would use to characterise most governments... Let's say that they been kept busy with other affairs.

What about "corruption"?

Revealed: Pandora papers unmask owners of offshore-held UK property worth £4bn

Analysis of leak identifies 600 previously anonymous owners from world leaders to monarchs and oligarchs

 

https://www.theguardian.com/news/2021/oct/05/pandora-papers-reveal-true-owners-offshore-held-uk-property-london

[sphinxsix]

1 hour ago, semente said:

 

"Inertia" is not a word I would use to characterise most governments... Let's say that they been kept busy with other affairs.

What about "corruption"?

Revealed: Pandora papers unmask owners of offshore-held UK property worth £4bn

Analysis of leak identifies 600 previously anonymous owners from world leaders to monarchs and oligarchs

 

https://www.theguardian.com/news/2021/oct/05/pandora-papers-reveal-true-owners-offshore-held-uk-property-london

 

Read it yesterday.

In a healthy world that would instigate worldwide revolution, and it would be victorious - these are billions of people against thousands after all   

 

[Priaptor]

5 hours ago, semente said:

 

"Inertia" is not a word I would use to characterise most governments... Let's say that they been kept busy with other affairs.

What about "corruption"?

Revealed: Pandora papers unmask owners of offshore-held UK property worth £4bn

Analysis of leak identifies 600 previously anonymous owners from world leaders to monarchs and oligarchs

 

https://www.theguardian.com/news/2021/oct/05/pandora-papers-reveal-true-owners-offshore-held-uk-property-london

I think inertia describes whatever processes have been used in the past, regardless of success, failure or legality but is easier to continue than change, including OF COURSE, but not limited to, corruption. 

[sphinxsix]

Owning and using a car in Amsterdam is very problematic - parking permits are expensive and you can wait for one for months. The city is relatively small and there are 3x more bikes in it than cars.

Despite all of that I can sense the difference in the air quality when I get back to Leiden.

More and more scientists are convinced that the quality of air that we breath is a key factor as far as our health is regarded.

 

A citizens’ initiative calling for a ban on private car use in central Berlin would create the largest car-free urban area in the world.

 

Bike parkings in A'dam (a parking for 30 000 bikes is being built in Utrecht).

 

 

 

[Priaptor]

2 hours ago, sphinxsix said:

Owning and using a car in Amsterdam is very problematic - parking permits are expensive and you can wait for one for months. The city is relatively small and there are 3x more bikes in it than cars.

Despite all of that I can sense the difference in the air quality when I get back to Leiden.

More and more scientists are convinced that the quality of air that we breath is a key factor as far as our health is regarded.

 

A citizens’ initiative calling for a ban on private car use in central Berlin would create the largest car-free urban area in the world.

 

Bike parkings in A'dam (a parking for 30 000 bikes is being built in Utrecht).

 

 

 

Air Pollution Linked To Millions Of Premature Births In 2019, Study Finds (forbes.com)

 

For those interested, I link the above. Their math is "fuzzy" and don't necessarily agree with the article in total, however, the absolute results are not the take away but the obvious association between air pollution and health is the key here. 

 

Also, no better city demonstrates the causal relationship than Hanoi. Hanoi is important for a variety of reasons. One is the obvious. The other is to shove it in our faces just how duplicitous our "green" desires are. We ship our manufacturing away to the biggest polluters and make believe all is good as we strive for expensive, minor influences locally. Yes I know I am a broken record, but sometimes that is what is necessary, for everyone to get it. 

[sphinxsix]

 

@Priaptor I felt quite often like a broken record while posting here, it's good to have company.

Again apologies for not replying to a number of posts, been much shorter with free time recently.

 

[sphinxsix]

Since I haven't posted here for a long time..

 

Guardian: Trashing the planet and hiding the money isn’t a perversion of capitalism. It is capitalism!

 

 

[DuckToller]

On 9/24/2021 at 5:13 PM, DuckToller said:

contributed that 2019 , Summerbreeze ...

.. " What importance does the weather (or change of climatic conditions) have for us audiophiles, you may like to ask?  We have power conditioners, linear power supplies, solid state amplification and power hungry transducer, just because we can and we want to! ... And if there has been a wise SO, our system is accompanied by a nearly noiseless AC in our condo. Albeit, you are lucky ...

Here in France, we usually have to deal with limitations in the grid, because some of the nuclear plant's reactors have been proven less resistant against overheating as expertly expected and thus have the need to be shut down more often for grace periods during the summer. I've noticed that ain't different in Germany and Belgium. Given that obvious vulnerability in European power resources which came to light, some people wonder why the French Nuclear Power lobby had successfully dichotomized the once so promising DESERTEC project during the last decade: Solar and Wind power for the European markets originated in the Sahara?
As an Audiophile, I really appreciate the idea of regenerative clean power from sustainable energy sources, even more, if the system is able to improve energy supply to North Africa and the Sub-Saharan regions!!!

Who would imagine that shareholders, for example of Siemens, GE, Trane and Goodman, or other companies that profiteered from shareholder value proposition/generation based on cheap & limitless consummation of energy sources for cooling aids, would stand up with their accumulated wealth to take on responsibility for environmental issues evolving as a consequence of these profits?
I'd reckon, they would rather pay their advocates to prevent them of the obligation than to support victims of the existing/coming climate change.

In short, there were billions of wealth made for investors and companies with engineering, manufacturing, installing and supplying HVAC systems, not only in the USA, but the environmental costs externalities, social & opportunity costs related to their economic success are usually distributed to the public budget.
Which nowadays is forced to invest into a "big, beautiful wall" rather than support climate change prevention.

It is not only a European problem alone, that available knowledge and wisdom haven't been used sufficiently to avoid a crisis that can't be controlled by state forces or conglomerates. In an age of denial, watercraft & wind energy nowadays are often criticized by their environmental impact and the unbearable costs of the future deconstruction. This argument didn't stop past decisions to build fossil fueled or nuclear power plants and gas & oil drilling platforms.

It's 2019, the year when SHELL is using the uncertainty about Brexit to circumvent European legislation in order to back away from the formerly planned environment respecting deconstruction of its outdated oil-drilling platforms in the North Sea. Leaving an "estimated 11,000 tonnes of raw oil and toxins remaining" within the Brent oilfield between the Shetlands and Norway's west coast, as its removal would be "too costly and risky".

Elsewhere in the USA, Floridians still believe it is God's will to get plagued by hurricanes, which are growing more destructive every year.  You may wonder, if the long time denial of climate change and the discombobulating treatment of the science and scientists behind its explanation, has led people to believe, it's consequence is now an inescapable doom. And can no longer be reversed by human action and decisions or, for example, by executing the idea of re-size & de-growth .

"... any serious proposals to change our lifestyles – cutting down on driving, flying or imported avocados – are considered “beyond the pale, heretic, almost insane”. This is especially true of air conditioning, where calls to use it less are frequently treated as suggestions that people should die in heat waves, or evidence of a malicious desire to deny other people the same comforts that citizens in wealthy countries already enjoy" (The Guardian,2019)

As a counter argument often the low-efficiency use of energy for heating during the wintertime in old cities like Minneaopolis appears valid, as long as you do not put it into perspective.

Although my family uses only ventilation in-house, nonetheless, I do not condemn air conditioning, overall.
It has enormous positive effects on wellbeing and productivity in several countries, including the USA.
In my personal conviction, this much desired effect of local cooling just unfortunately (too often) delivers an irreversible effect on global heating, with exceptions granted for cooling systems run by sustainable power generation. 

Still, the penetration of AC usage in European households north of the Mediterranean Sea is at about quarter compared to data from the US, and it differs a lot between the south and the north. Especially Germany and its neighbors having been traditionally outspoken critics of personal use of air conditioning, while the northern countries have nearly no usability scenario for AC. This is the cultural background for my personal assessment.
Another point is to review the impact it has on our resources and climate change.
I fully advocate solutions that would be as close as possible to a net zero carbon footprint."

https://www.theguardian.com/environment/2021/oct/09/fossil-fuel-companies-law-firms?

Greenlighting

Fossil fuel companies paying top law firms millions to ‘dodge responsibility’

[GregWormald]

Hmmm, if the human race kills itself off, is that "evolution in action"? After all, the planet will survive.

[sphinxsix]

I really like that! I think the scale of hearing loss caused by eg some 'tuned' exhausts and of course some chopper bikers is ..underestimated 

 

Amsterdam plans to introduce noise-detecting cameras to issue fines to loud drivers

 

[sphinxsix]

Scott Pio who has worked as an organiser in former President Donald Trump’s International Rapid Response Team and is currently a Republican state legislative candidate in Virginia..

 

..suggests taking all boats out of the water to lower sea levels. ‘When you take things out of bath water, the bath water decreases, does it not?’

 

 

Simply brilliant (with an accent on 'simply')...

 

[PYP]

3 hours ago, sphinxsix said:

Scott Pio who has worked as an organiser in former President Donald Trump’s International Rapid Response Team and is currently a Republican state legislative candidate in Virginia..

 

..suggests taking all boats out of the water to lower sea levels. ‘When you take things out of bath water, the bath water decreases, does it not?’

 

I'm going to try that today with my ducks, battleships and G.I. Joe scuba guy!  Will report back.  

 

Hey, don't make fun of this guy.  He may have discovered the best way to solve the supply chain issues (no more supplies!) as well as how to significantly reduce pollution and free up lots of fuel for other uses.  ;) 

[sphinxsix]

13 minutes ago, PYP said:

Will report back.  

Please do! 

 

[PYP]

6 hours ago, sphinxsix said:

Please do! 

 

I can't give a definitive answer yet.  I was splashing so much that lots of water was lost that way.  But maybe Scott could consider taking the water out of the oceans instead and placing it on the land (basically what I did).  That should work, right?  Would fix the droughts in the west, put out forest fires, etc.  This guy is destined to be president of the U.S.  No doubt.  

[sphinxsix]

7 hours ago, PYP said:

I can't give a definitive answer yet.  I was splashing so much that lots of water was lost that way.

Please work on your technique first, report later.

 

7 hours ago, PYP said:

 But maybe Scott could consider taking the water out of the oceans instead and placing it on the land (basically what I did).  That should work, right?

That's what the Dutch do, I guess. If you dig a hole in the ground here, it quickly gets filled with water. That's how nearby lakes came into being.

 

7 hours ago, PYP said:

This guy is destined to be president of the U.S.  No doubt.  

Also hoping for some more poetry from him..

 

On 9/17/2021 at 7:34 PM, sphinxsix said:

It's not so bad, most of the ones I know is worse..

How about some environ-mental poetry.? 

 

 

"I never understood wind.

You know, I know

windmills very much.

I have studied it

better than anybody

else. It’s very expensive.

They are made in China

and Germany mostly.

—Very few made here, almost none,

but they are manufactured, tremendous

—if you are into this—

tremendous fumes. Gases are

spewing into the atmosphere. You know

we have a world

right?

So the world

is tiny

compared to the universe.

So tremendous, tremendous

amount of fumes and everything.

You talk about

the carbon footprint

— fumes are spewing into the air.

Right? Spewing.

Whether it’s in China,

Germany, it’s going into the air.

It’s our air

their air

everything — right?

A windmill will kill many bald eagles.

After a certain number

they make you turn the windmill off.

That is true.

—By the way

they make you turn it off.

And yet, if you killed one

they put you in jail.

That is OK.

You want to see a bird graveyard?

You just go.

Take a look.

A bird graveyard.

Go under a windmill someday,

you’ll see

more birds

than you’ve ever seen

in your life."

~ D. Trump

12/21/2019

 

Asheville Poetry Review

 

[PYP]

Some private equity funds are seeing green, as in money, in destroying our planet:  https://www.nytimes.com/2021/10/13/climate/private-equity-funds-oil-gas-fossil-fuels.html?campaign_id=2&emc=edit_th_20211014&instance_id=42666&nl=todaysheadlines&regi_id=137764409&segment_id=71608&user_id=e7ce617addfc9551bcae3b7539221c8d   Are these some of the same people lobbying the U.S. congress to defeat bills that will help the planet?  

 

"Private Equity Funds, Sensing Profit in Tumult, Are Propping Up Oil

 

Since 2010, the private equity industry has invested at least $1.1 trillion into the energy sector — double the combined market value of three of the world’s largest energy companies, Exxon, Chevron and Royal Dutch Shell — according to new research. The overwhelming majority of those investments was in fossil fuels, according to data from Pitchbook, a company that tracks investment, and a new analysis by the Private Equity Stakeholder Project, a nonprofit that pushes for more disclosure about private equity deals.

 

Only about 12 percent of investment in the energy sector by private equity firms went into renewable power, like solar or wind, since 2010, though those investments have grown at a faster rate, according to Pitchbook data.

Private equity investors are taking advantage of an oil industry facing heat from environmental groups, courts, and even their own shareholders to start shifting away from fossil fuels, the major force behind climate change. As a result, many oil companies have begun shedding some of their dirtiest assets, which have often ended up in the hands of private equity-backed firms."

[Priaptor]

21 hours ago, sphinxsix said:

Scott Pio who has worked as an organiser in former President Donald Trump’s International Rapid Response Team and is currently a Republican state legislative candidate in Virginia..

 

..suggests taking all boats out of the water to lower sea levels. ‘When you take things out of bath water, the bath water decreases, does it not?’

 

 

Simply brilliant (with an accent on 'simply')...

 

Well this moron was elected and still serves and he isn't even the dumbest in DC. If we are going to start quoting morons in DC the thread isn't big enough. 

 

 

[sphinxsix]

 

Cop 26 a brief guide.

 

[PYP]

Can a Carbon-Emitting Iron Ore Tycoon Save the Planet?

 

https://www.nytimes.com/2021/10/16/business/energy-environment/green-energy-fortescue-andrew-forrest.html?searchResultPosition=1

 

"The iron and steel sector emits around 7 percent of the world’s carbon dioxide (more than all of the world’s cars). And unlike coal, it can’t be phased out unless we no longer want new appliances or buildings. Wrenching transformation is really the only option if international climate goals are to be met.

 

Nearly 90 percent of the carbon released by the steel-making process comes from reducing it to “pig iron” in a blast furnace or smelter powered by fossil fuels. Fortescue’s engineers have built a miniature mill that they said could do the same thing with electrodes and a pressurized brew of metals and other materials. Sitting on a counter, it resembled a water heater crossed with an espresso machine.

 

At least one other company, Boston Metal, which counts Bill Gates as an investor, has found a way to do something similar. But Fortescue’s scientists say they’ve figured out a process that works at lower temperatures (no hotter than a cup of coffee), allowing for easy on and off cycles with intermittent, renewable energy."

[semente]

BBC podcast

 

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sounds/play/w3ct2dr5

 

Putin and the planet

The Climate Question

 

Russia is the world’s fourth-largest emitter of greenhouse gasses. Any talk of changing that needs to focus on President Vladimir Putin. Under his leadership, Russia has become a fossil fuel powerhouse. Since he took office in 2000, Russian oil production has risen by 70%. Today, the state is dependent on its revenues. Four in every ten dollars Moscow spends comes from fossil fuels. So the idea that Russia needs to shift away from fossil fuels to prevent the worst effects of climate change strikes at the very heart of Mr Putin’s power. 

But Russia is already suffering more than most from the effects of climate change. Arctic temperatures are rising faster than the global average, forests the size of countries are going up in smoke. Two thirds of the country’s permafrost - permanently frozen ground - has roads, homes, schools, oil and pipelines and even nuclear reactors are built on it. And the permafrost is starting to melt. 
Putin’s latest national security document for the first time mentions climate change as a risk. But can he do what is necessary to prevent things from getting worse?

Contributors -
Angelina Davydova - Environmental Journalist 
Chris Miller - Director of the Foreign Policy Research Institute’s Eurasia Program
Vladimir Chuprov - Director of the Energy Program, Greenpeace Russia

 

[sphinxsix]

On 10/18/2021 at 7:41 PM, semente said:

BBC podcast

 

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sounds/play/w3ct2dr5

 

Putin and the planet

The Climate Question

 

Russia is the world’s fourth-largest emitter of greenhouse gasses. Any talk of changing that needs to focus on President Vladimir Putin. Under his leadership, Russia has become a fossil fuel powerhouse. Since he took office in 2000, Russian oil production has risen by 70%. Today, the state is dependent on its revenues. Four in every ten dollars Moscow spends comes from fossil fuels. So the idea that Russia needs to shift away from fossil fuels to prevent the worst effects of climate change strikes at the very heart of Mr Putin’s power. 

But Russia is already suffering more than most from the effects of climate change. Arctic temperatures are rising faster than the global average, forests the size of countries are going up in smoke. Two thirds of the country’s permafrost - permanently frozen ground - has roads, homes, schools, oil and pipelines and even nuclear reactors are built on it. And the permafrost is starting to melt. 
Putin’s latest national security document for the first time mentions climate change as a risk. But can he do what is necessary to prevent things from getting worse?

Contributors -
Angelina Davydova - Environmental Journalist 
Chris Miller - Director of the Foreign Policy Research Institute’s Eurasia Program
Vladimir Chuprov - Director of the Energy Program, Greenpeace Russia

 

It won't work without cooperation of countries like Russia, China or Brazil.

In all these cases the will to cooperate may be questionable. 

I personally would advocate any kind of political and(!) economic pressure put on their leaders.

 

Unfortunately also in the US, the situation with the Biden's plans is uncertain despite the overwhelming support of the American people.

 

https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2021/oct/17/pete-buttigieg-biden-climate-plan-manchin

 

https://www.washingtonpost.com/business/2021/10/16/white-house-climate-manchin/

 

[PYP]

"Apple Inc. achieved carbon neutrality with its own operations and vowed to do the same with its supply chain by 2030. Amazon.com Inc. promised to be carbon neutral by 2040. Google aims to go even further. It’s committed to go free of carbon, without using offsets and relying only on clean energy purchased near its locations, 24 hours a day. That means in Chile, where solar panels power Google’s data center during the day, the company must find a solution when the sun sets. In dense Taiwan and Singapore, where its data centers run almost entirely on fossil fuels, it must find massive amounts of green alternatives very quickly."

 

A very interesting article about the various methods needed to reach these goals by these worldwide tech giants.  First the will is needed, followed by innovation (and necessary funding, of course):    https://www.bloomberg.com/news/features/2021-10-17/google-s-new-green-campus-brings-sustainability-to-silicon-valley?campaign_id=158&emc=edit_ot_20211019&instance_id=43227&nl=on-tech-with-shira-ovide&regi_id=137764409&segment_id=72058&sref=Qk91czAc&te=1&user_id=e7ce617addfc9551bcae3b7539221c8d    

[sphinxsix]

I must admit that I agree with the ones who say that the world needs not only environmental but also systemic change (I didn't always think so, except for my late teens when I felt lots of sympathy for the idea of anarchosyndicalism). 

A really good article, IMO:

 

Think big on climate: the transformation of society in months has been done before