Roon Issue,?Hardware Issue? Other Issue? I'm Lost, Need Your Expertise!

[TubeLover]

I'm posting in the "general forum" because I honestly don't know where my issue resides. As noted above, it could be a  Roon software issue, a hardware issue (though I doubt that) something to do with a setting being incorrect (although that has been checked and rechecked) or something else. I Do know that there are a lot of people here in the forums that do have a great deal of knowledge associated with Roon, MicroRendu's, etc. who can hopefully help me end this frustrating situation. 

 

I recently purchased an i5 SonicTransporter to allow me to use Roon, and couldn't be happier with it. I'm hoping that someone can help me with a related problem that I am having. I have two audio systems in my house, the primary one is downstairs, in my listening room, the other is upstairs in my office. The downstairs system is using an UltraRendu, the office system is using a MicroRendu.
The upstairs Microrendu is somehow not now seen by Roon, Roon only shows my iPad pro, and only plays music via my iPad Pro. Obviously, I cannot currently use that audio system. If a setting is incorrect, I am not aware of it, but anything is possible. I have also tried rebooting the MicroRendu without any change in Roon. When this system was first tested, everything worked. 

The upstairs system is composed of a upgraded MicroRendu, a ModWright Elyse DAC, and the exceptional Mutec MC-3+USB reclocker and USB to SPDIF converter (needed for the DAC). 

 

At the suggestion of Andrew from Small Green Computer, I checked the DAC diagnostic and all appears well there. The MicroRendu sees the Mutec. I have checked and rechecked all connections. I have checked and rechecked all settings. Everything from the MicroRendu, to the configs, to the Roon settings have been restarted numerous  times. At this point in time, the Mutec unit that I am using to convert the USB signal to SPDIF (for the DAC) is not seeing any output from the MicroRendu. When I am in Roon, on my iPad Pro, in the lower right corner it shows the queue symbol, the symbol for my iPad, and the speaker on icon. If I press on the "my iPad" icon, it brings up a new window, under "Zones" that says JC's iPad, under that it shows the musical selection that is ready to play, and in the upper right corner of the box, there is a check mark.

 

I've walked through this with my friend Arnie (who has an i5SonicTransporter and uses Roon, and he has verified every setting and step I've taken and we are both at a loss as to what to do now. Especially as this exact system and setup worked, at least insofar as Roon, on my iPad seeing things correctly, when we tested it after installing the UltraRendu downstairs, and moving to using Roon with both systems. We were not able to play music though, due to a power amp failure that had taken place a few days earlier. 

 

Any help in resolving this issue would be greatly appreciated. Working these past few days in the office with no music has been frustrating. Thanks.

 

JC

 

 

 

 

[LTG2010]

There is a setting in Roon's RAATServer - Unique id. Don't know where this is located on your OS but if you could delete this file it might fix the issue.

Alternatively if you don't have a huge database restoring the unit to factory defaults and then setting up Roon again might fix the issue.

[bobfa]

 

 

IF  you turn off one of the rendu devices can you play the other one?  Reverse that and see if the other one works..  This will tell you if it is a conflict between the Rendu devices or the ST.

 

If it is the unique_ID problem there is a single file that needs to be deleted.  IF the any two Roon devices have the same ID things will break.  You need to stop roon services before you do this.  In the SonicOribiter system you may be able to use the expose database function to navigate to the folder and delete the file.  When you start up Roon Bridge again it will generate a new ID.

 

Search the forums for Unique_ID and you will find more info.

[Paul R]

Did you accidentally mark the Audio Zone in Roon as private? 

-Paul 

 

 

[crenca]

13 minutes ago, Paul R said:

Did you accidentally mark the Audio Zone in Roon as private? 

-Paul 

 

 

 

Now that I am well over the gaga stage of Roon ownership, I can say that the way it handles zones and the various effects it has (such as on DSP) is butt ugly confusing and counter intuitive.  Not sure if this is at the root of the OP's problem but he should definitely look at this.

[TubeLover]

Thanks to everyone for the suggestions so far. I will look into all of them in hope of finding the solution.

 

Paul, I am having trouble locating that Device Setup page you are showing. I've gone into "settings" in Roon (on my IPad Pro) and looked at every section without finding it. I did however come across something that might be associated with the problem. 

 

Under the "Audio" section of the Roon settings, its says JC's iPad and underneath that "Audio will play out of the default device." and below that " Apple". And then, to the right, the box under Zone Name says "JC's iPad". I'm relatively sure it should say MicroRendu? 

 

JC

[bobfa]

What audio devices are showing on your iPad?  Both of your Rendu devices should show there.  Did you set both of them up in Roon?

 

Settings -> audio and look around.  

[TubeLover]

5 minutes ago, bobfa said:

What audio devices are showing on your iPad?  Both of your Rendu devices should show there.  Did you set both of them up in Roon?

 

Settings -> audio and look around.  

Bob, thanks for the help. In Roon,settings, audio when I just checked it per your suggestion, under Networked, it only shows my home theater's Marantz preamp/processor (which has Apple connectivity) and my Apple TV box, also part of the home theater. 

 

JC

[TubeLover]

4 hours ago, bobfa said:

 

 

IF  you turn off one of the rendu devices can you play the other one?  Reverse that and see if the other one works..  This will tell you if it is a conflict between the Rendu devices or the ST.

 

 

The UltraRendu in my listening room has always worked perfectly with Roon, including as recently as Tuesday night. Unfortunately, I can't verify it again right now, as I have a couple guests staying the night, and one of them is currently asleep in the listening room. I will re-verify that all is well in that system, with the UltraRendu tomorrow.

 

JC

[Paul R]

1 hour ago, TubeLover said:

Thanks to everyone for the suggestions so far. I will look into all of them in hope of finding the solution.

 

Paul, I am having trouble locating that Device Setup page you are showing. I've gone into "settings" in Roon (on my IPad Pro) and looked at every section without finding it. I did however come across something that might be associated with the problem. 

 

Under the "Audio" section of the Roon settings, its says JC's iPad and underneath that "Audio will play out of the default device." and below that " Apple". And then, to the right, the box under Zone Name says "JC's iPad". I'm relatively sure it should say MicroRendu? 

 

JC

 

Hi JC - you should be able to get to the zone from any device. 

 

1. Make sure your MicroRendu is on and you can access it from the network. I don't know what mode you have it set to, but setting it to Roon mode seems pretty logical. In any case, it has to be on and available for Roon to see it. 

 

2. From a Roon control point - your iPad should be fine - open Settings -> Audio. Assuming you are on Roon 1.6 it will look something like this:  

 

 

The zones at the top are usually the ones connected to your local control point. In the case of your iPad, it would show "JC's iPad" - meaning you can select your iPad as a Zone and play music to it. It's easier to screen shot off a laptop, so above you see my MacBook as a Roon endpoint.

 

Under that are the zones connected to the machine running your Roon Core. I usually don't use the Core machine for playback so none of the default zones, representing audio devices attached to the Core are enabled. 

 

Under that, you will see the Networked endpoints. Your MicroRendu should show up under there. You may need to enable it. Once enabled, click on the little gears icon, and select Device Setup, and you will have the configuration screen available to you. 

 

If the uRendu does not show up, it is probably not turned on, or not configured correctly. 

 

In the case above, there are two DACs attached to the Windows 10 desktop, but since they are not turned on right now, the zones are not there. If I were to turn the DACs on, they would both just appear in that particular section. This is a nice feature for me, as I can turn off a system and not accidentally route music to it in the middle of the night when I really want to listen on headphones. Just ask my wife about that "safety" feature. 

 

Hope that helps a bit. 

 

 

 

 

[bobfa]

As I suggested a few posts back.  Turn off the endpoints and try to access them one at a time to see if you can control them independently.  If they work independently and not together then you may have a unique_id problem.

 

 

[Paul R]

I thought Duplicate GUIDs were only a problem with cloned audiolinux installs? In any case, worth a look but I would ask Jesus about it. If it us happening with one of his products, I can’t see it happening for long. 

 

If the Roon version on the SonicTransporter is not 1.6, probably woukd be worth the time to update it as well. 

 

Just my $0.02.  YMMV. 

[bobfa]

I am not sure what the problem is here.    Trying some basic debugging first.  

 

TubeLover have you gone into a web browser and looked to see if you can see all the Sonic Orbiter devices on your network.???  sonicorbiter.com

[bluesman]

16 hours ago, TubeLover said:

I have two audio systems in my house, the primary one is downstairs, in my listening room, the other is upstairs in my office. The downstairs system is using an UltraRendu, the office system is using a MicroRendu. The upstairs Microrendu is somehow not now seen by Roon, Roon only shows my iPad pro, and only plays music via my iPad Pro.

 

Hi, JC.  I'm a bit confused by your initial description of the problem (highlighted above).   A bit more detail would help. 

• Am I correct that you have your Roon core on the SonicTransporter and are using Roon Remote on your iPad Pro as a control point?
• Do you only have one control point or do you also have one or more Roon instances on another computer or mobile device on your network?
• What available devices appear in the Roon settings-audio panel and does each have a blue "enable" button or a name after it?
• What available zones does Roon show when you click the active zone icon at the bottom right of your GUI?
• Does Roon only show the iPad as an available device in the settings-audio panel, or does it show both the iPad and the UltraRendu?
• Can you truly play only through the iPad (as you state in your first post) or did you mean that you can play through both the iPad and the UltraRendu but not the MicroRendu?
• Are both DACs and the devices into which they output powered up when you check their status in Roon?

If all else fails and all of your devices are configured and working properly, you can almost certainly solve this by simply reinstalling your Roon core on the SonicTransporter and following Roon's setup instructions.

[TubeLover]

Good news. Everything is working perfectly now, although I am not entirely sure why or how. Last night, after I got home and ate dinner, I tried the primary system, which had always worked perfectly, and Roon came up the same way, with just my iPad Pro showing in the "zone area". I did something that I had done previously upstairs, without any result. I rebooted the Ultra Rendu, then rebooted Roon Ready, and then rebooted the Ipad Pro. Suddenly, another zone appears on that Roon page,  my UltraRendu. I just deactivated my Ipad Pro in the pull down window, and activated the UltraRendu showing in the other zone, and all was suddenly fine. Later, I followed the same process upstairs (something I had done several times previously without result). This time both the UltraRendu and MicroRendu both show up as available zones. I selected the MicroRendu and everything worked perfectly.

 

I'm extremely happy to have this all resolved, I just wish I could account for why it happened in the first place, and why the same steps towards a resolution did not work at some times, and did work at others? Oh well.

 

Thanks, very much, to everyone for your efforts to help. They are greatly appreciated.

 

JC

[TubeLover]

These problems seem to surface anytime something is changed in the upstairs system, and I'm really getting tired of the frustration and effort required to troubleshoot and deal with them. Perhaps going back to other hardware than a MicroRendu might be my best way forward. No disrespect to Sonore, but I have had way too may difficulties with the MicroRendu/Roon combination, but to be fair, they are probably mostly associated with Roon, insofar as network related things. 

 

My upstairs/office system was limited to a headphone amplifier while my integrated amplifier was off having a repair and update done. Now the integrated is back, and in it's previous place in the system. For no possible reason I can understand Roon (when I go to settings, audio) cannot, again, find the MicroRendu. All it shows is my iPad (and an Apple TV  and a home theater receiver under the "networked" category). My Sonic Transporter clearly shows the MicroRendu (but I have tried restarting it also. I have restarted the MicroRendu at least four times.  It is set to MPD/DLNA Renderer, I have restarted Roon Server. I have rebooted the iPad Pro at least four times. 

 

I know there is nothing wrong with the network, or equipment, since I am able to use the MicroRendu when set for Shairplay routing music from my iPad Pro to my DAC and integrated amp without issue.  

 

Any thoughts about how to attempt to solve the problem, this time around, would be greatly appreciated. The frustration at yet another issue, is enormous. And especially irritating, having just gotten back the integrated amp, and being unable to use it except for shairplay enabled music from the iPad.

 

JC

[Cebolla]

4 hours ago, TubeLover said:

For no possible reason I can understand Roon (when I go to settings, audio) cannot, again, find the MicroRendu. All it shows is my iPad (and an Apple TV  and a home theater receiver under the "networked" category). My Sonic Transporter clearly shows the MicroRendu (but I have tried restarting it also. I have restarted the MicroRendu at least four times.  It is set to MPD/DLNA Renderer, I have restarted Roon Server. I have rebooted the iPad Pro at least four times.

 

Why have you got the microRendu's output mode set to MPD/DLNA?

 

Roon does not support UPnP/DLNA renderers (Roon Labs have made a specific point for it not to). If MPD/DLNA is the microRendu's output mode you have been using all this time, it may explain your connectivity issues.

 

The Roon Server cannot directly connect to UPnP/DLNA renderers and the only way to get the Roon Server to (indirectly) use them is to use a bridging interface. The one that springs to mind (given that you are using Sonore kit) is the SonoreUPnP Bridge, which 'fools' the Roon Server into thinking that the required UPnP/DLNA renderer is a Squeezebox type device (which the Roon Server does support).

 

Last I heard, the SonoreUPnP Bridge was still in beta, so don't expect it to work reliably all of the time.

[TubeLover]

John, Thanks for being the voice of sanity once again, and saving me from any further embarassment. When I posted late last night, I had just gotten back from an all day drive to Toronto and back, fighting through construction, at many points, after unexpectedly having to travel to pick up my sister.  I was extremely tired, and only not sleeping, because I was a bit "overtired" and trying to mentally wind down from a long, tricky drive so I could fall asleep effectively. 

 

My brain was clearly not operating in normal mode, enhanced by the fact that I had not set up the MicroRendu for Roon for quite some time. When I got up, after a lengthy sleep, I realized my mistake, as you do indeed never set it up for MPD/DLNA, only for Roon Ready with the MicroRendu. My brain defaulted to appropriate setting for the hardware/software I used before getting it. 

 

Last time I will try to operate things that require me to both think, and remember at the same time while being mentally and physically exhausted.

 

All is working now, thanks again.

 

JC

[Daccord]

4 minutes ago, TubeLover said:

Last time I will try to operate things that require me to both think, and remember at the same time while being mentally and physically exhausted.

 

Other than your car? 🤕

[TubeLover]

30 minutes ago, Daccord said:

 

Other than your car? 🤕

For that very reason, I had my sister drive the last couple hours!

JC

[rn701]

Everything must be on the same ip netword/subnet. Also UDP must be enabled in all firewall/router settings.

[TubeLover]

Okay, now I am completely confused. I thought all was well, but something still isn't right.

 

After correcting things to enable Roon Ready, I listened to several hours of great music, via Roon,, with no issues, this afternoon. An hour and a half or so earlier tonight, I wanted to listen to a stream of "The Midnight Special" from WFMT in Chicago. I selected Shairport, and listened to a bit over an hour of the stream before the sound just dropped out. Now, this is something that sometimes happens with that WFMT stream sometimes, and has occurred a number of times even listening direct via my iPad. So, no worries, I set the MicroRendu back to Roon Ready, butd now I have no sound at all from the Roon playback.  

 

This time around, Roon clearly sees the MicroRendu, and when I look at the Zone, it shows right there that what I have selected is playing to the MicroRendu, but I am getting no sound. I'm just baffled now, what could have changed, and how do I fix this? I've tried rebooting Roon, and the MicroRendu numerous times, tried rebooting the iPad. It just isn't making sense. Everything appears exactly as it should, but still no sound.

 

Sorry to be a bother, but your help would again be greatly appreciated. My level of frustration is back to serious levels. And here I thought everything was fine this afternoon.

 

JC

[TubeLover]

Finally back up and operating. I wish I could tell you I knew why. The only difference to the procedure that I had been repeatedly trying:

 

1) Go into the Sonic Orbiter and verify that the network, and Sonic Orbiter sees the MicroRendu

2) Go into MicroRendu settings and select "Roon Ready" and let it complete that process

3) Reboot the MicroRendu and let it complete that process

4) Shut down the iPad, and restart it

5) open up Roon, verify that the MicroRendu is selected and ready

 

The only thing I added to the process was a suggestion (out of desperation) from a friend (who has almost the same system) to power fail the LPS1 power supply before starting the process above. Granted, he admitted that he was just shooting in the dark, but I did that first, anyway. 

 

I have absolutely no idea if, or why that would change anything, but I have sound again. Now if someone could tell my why following the process above (minus power failing the LPS1) repeatedly, last night, never allowed me to get sound out of my system, I would be all ears! This should NOT be this difficult!

 

JC