Holo audio Cyan DAC+Headamp Impressions thread

[barrows]

2 hours ago, GUTB said:

I’ll note that the SRC in the Cyan DSD is very good. There isn’t a large difference between playing PCM or using HQPlayer to upsample to DSD 512.

Hmm, is it not just the AKM chip?  Most who have tried that chip for PCM-DSD have not been very impressed, perhaps you need a good class D amplifier to hear the differences more clearly .

[twluke]

17 hours ago, GUTB said:

I’ll note that the SRC in the Cyan DSD is very good. There isn’t a large difference between playing PCM or using HQPlayer to upsample to DSD 512.

 

This comment appears confusing and less elaborated for me. Because the Cyan-DSD can not play PCM directly. Also, it's my understanding that the SRC has no role in playing DSD512, if it is native.

 

Well, I'm a happy user of Cyan-DSD (and also a happy user of a DIY DAC, the same one with the barrows' beloved ES9038pro from TPA and also happened to be  a very happy user of class D  amplifiers from Hypex ), enjoying upsampled DSD512 play by HQP/Roon, intermediated by an NAA running on a debian stretch kernel with Botic driver on a BBB/Hermes/Cronus from TPA with I2S connection to the Cyan-DSD, that I believe would be perfect for maximized use of this excellent DAC.

 

The botic-BBB system on linux above can also run an MPD which can play both PCM and DSD. The instruction from Holo Audio for Cyan suggests the DSD version can convert PCM to DSD by the SRC, up to DSD256 with OS mode, but I've never achieved such an upsampling upto DSD256; always limited to DSD64, which is very bad in SQ. This is the case even with NOS mode, though the issue may be only specific to me.

 

Though I rarely use such a PCM to DSD conversion, I'll be happy if you kindly explain how you could find such a difference between PCM and DSD512 under the SRC control.

 

Regards,

 

 

[Emcee]

On 2/23/2018 at 5:20 PM, lentille said:

Co-ax versus USB versus I2s

 

For those of you also using dedicated streamers, I have done enough A to B listening  between Co-ax and USB now to feel comfortable settling on the coax input for my pcm version Cyan. I use a carbon fibre cable which overcomes some of the potential issues with coax.

 

I have another DAC/ headamp/pre-amp which does true direct DSD and my DSD library is small compared to my PCM library which is why I went with the PCM version of the Cyan. 

 

My streamer does not have I2s so others may want to order comment on how that compares to USB. 

 

Vincent 

 

Can you please specify which brand/model of carbon coax you're using? On a scale of 0-10 how satisfied are you with the PCM Cyan?

Thanks

[Bimmer100]

There is a new firmware v21.02 for the Cyan (previous v20.16 is previous firmware) on our website and recommended to update. Also after careful testing... this new firmware is best paired with our v4.11.0 Driver which is also on our website. Mind you this is for windows 7/8/10 users. 

 

Recommended Windows Asio Driver is v4.11.0 Win7/8/10 and with newest firmware v21.02 (3/31/2018)

 

Please take note: remove all/any USB decrappers and/or ISO devices of any kind. ONLY have USB cable from PC to Dac for the firmware update process. Many devices are known to cause firmware update errors.  there is a DFU program that needs all files to be dumped into the C://programfiles/holoaudio/usb audio device driver/w10_64/ 

and the last folder may vary depending on what version of windows you run. but the DFU files must be in there. open the program and choose the proper firmware bin file to begin update process. 

 

*this update is focused on improving USB module connectivity and reliability

*fixes a bug where dac loses usb connection when sharing same USB hub with other devices such as USB Hard drive.

*the firmware is designed to work with the v4.11.0 driver.

 

If you are experiencing any of the known issues with USB connectivity problems, this will fix the issue. We will be issuing a newer driver than the most current v4.35.0 at a later date. But we still recommend v4.11.0 until that time. 

 

Please let me know if anyone has any questions. Thank you to everyone who chooses KitsuneHiFi / HoloAudio  

 

 

 

 

 

[semente]

Does anyone know if the Cyan uses the same analogue line-out and PSU architecture as the Spring?

I am considering the former but I would rather get the best line-out performance because I don't listen with headphones.

[giordy60]

cyan manages the family rate of 44.1 based files and 48 khz?

in hqp it is important

 

[Miska]

3 hours ago, giordy60 said:

cyan manages the family rate of 44.1 based files and 48 khz?

in hqp it is important

 

 

Cyan only supports 44.1k-base DSD rates. Not 48k-base ones...

 

[Miska]

14 hours ago, semente said:

Does anyone know if the Cyan uses the same analogue line-out and PSU architecture as the Spring?

I am considering the former but I would rather get the best line-out performance because I don't listen with headphones.

 

I don't know about hardware differences, but based on my measurements, Spring performs somewhat better... I don't know why though.

 

[giordy60]

13 hours ago, Miska said:

 

Cyan only supports 44.1k-base DSD rates. Not 48k-base ones...

 

thanks Miska 

[lentille]

Hi guys - Cyan tweak upgrades 

 

FYI because I was moving kit around at Xmas, I made the Cyan my rig for my regular late night listening and moved my other rig elsewhere. "Elsewhere" created issues due to its very  large surfqce top area ( a large L shaped thinning tabletop) which really affected performance. So I decided to invest in some good isolation footers and whilst at it fuse upgrades - and hey if I was doing this for rig 1, might as well do it for the rig 2 Cyan as well. 

 

In my rig 1 which is more expensive than the Cyan,  the Synergistic Research MIG 2.0 footers made a noticeable improvement, but the fuse change to a Synergistic Research Black had a hugely positive impact - as in a wow! step up in performance. Google the AudioBacon review to see why I chose this fuse. This other unit only seemed to have a fairly standard cheap fuse in original manufacture. 

 

For the Cyan I thought the MIG 2.0 footers made a worthwhile improvement. But the fuse upgrade did not have the impact I found in rig 1.  On pulling out the Cyan fuse it was clearly already a better fuse based on its construction although I could not identify which brand. So my Cyan is definitely keeping the MIG 2.0 Isolation footers and the new fuse as I have it - but kudos to Holo as in my experience it does not reply require a fuse upgrade.

 

Cheers Vincent 

 

ps just goes to show and I was pleased to see that I am not a slave to expectation bias 

 

 

 

[lentille]

Humming 

 

Hi guys. The one issue I have with my holo Cyan is the hum. Even with my dodgy hearing I can hear the hum an arms length away. I added a balanced power isolation device to feed it and it reduces the hum but does not eliminate it. Could other owners please let me know how much hum if any they hear? 

 

Thanks 

[Miska]

Here's one plot for DSD128, certainly nothing at least above -120 dB.

 

 

You probably have a ground current issue. That is the most usual source for hum.

 

[zorntel]

I'm wondering if any Cyan users out there have experimented with Digital interfaces like the SU-1?  I know this is a very common approach with the Spring.  I had about 30 minutes with an SU-1 yesterday in my Cyan rig and the results were inconclusive.  Sound was definitely different, but I didn't have enough time to judge whether I liked the sound better or not. I'll hopefully have a longer period to evaluate it again in another week, but I'm curious who might have done a similar experiment.  

 

My friends and I did a bunch of AB testing yesterday between the IFI micro iDSD Black Label and the Cyan (NOS) and we definitely preferred the Cyan.  All of this was done with DSD512 input and no SU-1.

 

I have the DSD version of the Cyan running in NOS and I'm upsampling to DSD512 in HQplayer.  I'm sending the data to the cyan using a custom shielded LUSH USB cable.  The USB chain also uses an ISO Regen supplied with LT3045 regulated LPS-1 power and an IFI iDefender used to inject 5V LT3045 regulated power after the ISO Regen (also from an LPS-1).

 

Robert

[lentille]

Hi I have not tried the Singer. But like you I have an iso-regen and an Lps-1. I didn't think it made a step-up in sound. 

 

In fact I am now using a specialised co-ax cable instead. (Yes not ideal for my DSD files but adequate and I have another rig for pure DSD). The co-ax quality exceeded the usb quality in my set up. 

 

BUT I am not using a pc with noisy usb output. I use  a Synology NAS feeding an Aurilac Aries Mini streamer and then the Cyan, so my inputs to the Cyan are free from usual pc generated noise.   And of course if could be the Cyan usb is well sorted so it does not benefit a lot from usb cleaning devices. But with a very good co/ax cable the sound is very good. 

 

 

[zorntel]

On 4/18/2018 at 8:04 AM, lentille said:

Hi I have not tried the Singer. But like you I have an iso-regen and an Lps-1. I didn't think it made a step-up in sound.

 

The key with the iso-regen is to feed it clean power.  Thus the LPS-1 and double LT3045s (6 V and 5V in series) and then to inject cleaned 5V power (also LT3045s) after the isoregen.  I imagine they will eventually upgrade the iso-regen with better chips, but in the meantime this is how to get the most from it.  I use a single LPS-1 for both purposes.  My USB is also coming from a startech USB 3.1 PCIe card that is also fed cleaned LPS-1/LT3045 5V power.  All of these changes make incremental differences, but the net effect is staggering.  What I've learned in the last year is that a couple of hundred dollars of power tweaks can make tens of thousands of dollars of difference in system performance.

 

Robert

 

 

[Solstice380]

@zorntel  Do you feed the LT3045s 7.5V?  7.5-6-5 or?  Thanks.  

[zorntel]

7V LPS-1 output  into a 6V LT3045 into a 5V LT3045.  I use a splitter out of the LPS-1 into two of these chains.  One goes into the isoregen while the other goes into an IFI idefender positioned after the isoregen before my modified LUSH cable.  I don't think the idefender really makes a difference, its just a way to inject power into the USB chain.

 

Robert

[Solstice380]

11 hours ago, zorntel said:

 

7V LPS-1 output  into a 6V LT3045 into a 5V LT3045

 

 

Thanks!  Did you put the reg boards in a case?  Any chance on pics from you guys? @lmitche and @Johnseye  I found a source I think you mentioned but not sure which item you are using.  

[Forehaven]

Hi Solstice.  Here's the source:  https://www.ebay.com/itm/LT3045-A-Ultralow-noise-0-8-Vrms-LDO-linear-regulator-0V-15V-1A-Fixed-out/253378132579?_trkparms=aid%3D111001%26algo%3DREC.SEED%26ao%3D1%26asc%3D51378%26meid%3D7718f1b81d91477a8ab3af5b6c6423df%26pid%3D100675%26rk%3D5%26rkt%3D15%26mehot%3Dag%26sd%3D332624714110%26itm%3D253378132579&_trksid=p2481888.c100675.m4236&_trkparms=pageci%3A14cfd6c9-4577-11e8-8946-74dbd180d5c2|parentrq%3Ae8c7eae01620a994810a2ce3fffc7fd2|iid%3A1

 

I put mine  in a case, but think I'll move them at some point to be closer to device.  Like the LT's for the USB card placed in the case.  

[Erikdayo]

Has anyone compared the Cyan PCM to the Spring level 1? I've been looking at both lately, and I'm not sure which to go with. I do like the smaller footprint of the Cyan and the lower price, but the lack of linear compensation is concerning. The DSD limitations on the Cyan PCM model don't have any impact on which I try. 

 

There aren't many impressions of the Cyan PCM version available so I assume it's hasn't been very readily available so far.

 

I am currently using a Metrum Onyx and am very happy with it. Curiosity is getting to me.

[zorntel]

On 4/21/2018 at 8:04 AM, Solstice380 said:

 

Thanks!  Did you put the reg boards in a case?  Any chance on pics from you guys? @lmitche and @Johnseye  I found a source I think you mentioned but not sure which item you are using.  

Sorry, I never replied to this.  My LT3045's are free ranging.  I use plastic risers with metal screws and plastic washers to mount them to each other to give some stability....don't really see a reason for cases.

[zorntel]

On 4/17/2018 at 3:17 PM, zorntel said:

I'm wondering if any Cyan users out there have experimented with Digital interfaces like the SU-1?  I know this is a very common approach with the Spring.  I had about 30 minutes with an SU-1 yesterday in my Cyan rig and the results were inconclusive.  Sound was definitely different, but I didn't have enough time to judge whether I liked the sound better or not. I'll hopefully have a longer period to evaluate it again in another week, but I'm curious who might have done a similar experiment.  

 

Thanks to my SU-1 friend I now have a SU-1 loaner for a week.  It has Kitsune's mods but without the power supply.  Instead I'm feeding it 5V power from a HDplex 100w LPS running through a LT3045 7V to 6V to 5V chain.

 

The sound is definitely different from that of the Cyan's USB board.  In general transients are better, but I think that comes from better high frequency response.  Specifically good old 14K tape hiss is coming through stronger.  The net effect is that the SU1 sound is a little thin but great attacks on percussive instruments.

 

Tim is sending his fully modified SU-1 (with his power supply) this way so we will be able to do a head to head comparison between the two approaches to power.  We will also do this with a Holo Spring as well.

 

Robert

[WenYee]

[WenYee]

[M_audio]

@WenYee what is your impression of Singxer-Cyan combination and are you using I2S?