Holo audio Cyan DAC+Headamp Impressions thread

[GUTB]

It's a crime against humanity that such a good high-value DAC isn't getting more exposure here. The Cyan DSD is probably the best, most value I ever got out of a sub-$1,000 purchase yet. More detailed review to follow.

[Miska]

My Cyan DSD is on the way...

 

[lmitche]

1 hour ago, Miska said:

My Cyan DSD is on the way...

 

Oh good, I look forward to your opinion about the implementation.

[57gold]

So no room for a preamp/volume control/output attenuator on DSD version?

[giordy60]

2 hours ago, 57gold said:

So no room for a preamp/volume control/output attenuator on DSD version?

outside the cyan ..... yes  

[Miska]

Some initial listening impressions with Cyan DSD...

 

- Relaxed character, not on your face

- Very "revealing"; bad recordings will sound bad and good recordings will sound good

- Fairly low output voltage, so you need to turn up the volume (may be good, because you'll need less attenuation on following volume stage - better gain matching)

 

This is with Fostex HP-A8C as a headphone amp to Sennheiser HD-800 headphones.

 

P.S. Extra note - 48k-base DSD doesn't work! So only 44.1k-base rates!

[matthias]

56 minutes ago, Miska said:

Some initial listening impressions with Cyan DSD...

 

- Relaxed character, not on your face

- Very "revealing"; bad recordings will sound bad and good recordings will sound good

- Fairly low output voltage, so you need to turn up the volume (may be good, because you'll need less attenuation on following volume stage - better gain matching)

 

This is with Fostex HP-A8C as a headphone amp to Sennheiser HD-800 headphones.

 

P.S. Extra note - 48k-base DSD doesn't work! So only 44.1k-base rates!

 

Thanks, does it have AK4137 SRC for PCM to DSD without HQPlayer?

I expect HQPlayer is much better.

 

Matt

[Miska]

26 minutes ago, matthias said:

Thanks, does it have AK4137 SRC for PCM to DSD without HQPlayer?

 

Yes it has AKM SRC for built-in conversion (up to DSD256). But I'm running it in NOS mode with software conversion.

 

My listening impressions are from HQPlayer using "poly-sinc-short-mp-2s" as filter and "ASDM7" as modulator, to DSD512 output. I didn't try the built-in conversion.

 

[giordy60]

9 hours ago, Miska said:

 

 

P.S. Extra note - 48k-base DSD doesn't work! So only 44.1k-base rates!

It could be a driver issue? 

[Miska]

1 hour ago, giordy60 said:

It could be a driver issue? 

 

No it is not, because I'm using it on Linux. When I switch to 48k x512 rate, display shows "768K" instead of "D512" and output is silent. I'm not sure if it's a firmware feature, or if the DSD board doesn't have 24.576 MHz clock at all.

 

I think the same works on Spring DAC, but that one also certainly has the 24.576 MHz clock too (because it's anyway needed for PCM side).

[giordy60]

Tim Connor hopefully give us some more details about file management more based 44.1 and 48 khz .

[GUTB]

Can confirm 48k rates don't work.

[zorntel]

Does anyone know if the Cyan requires power through the USB cable in order to connect to the computer?

[zorntel]

On 1/21/2018 at 4:35 AM, Miska said:

 

No it is not, because I'm using it on Linux. When I switch to 48k x512 rate, display shows "768K" instead of "D512" and output is silent. I'm not sure if it's a firmware feature, or if the DSD board doesn't have 24.576 MHz clock at all.

 

I think the same works on Spring DAC, but that one also certainly has the 24.576 MHz clock too (because it's anyway needed for PCM side).

Jussi,

 

Just to confirm, do your Linux NAA builds have the necessary LINUX drivers for the Cyan?

 

Robert

[GUTB]

On 2/7/2018 at 6:10 PM, zorntel said:

Does anyone know if the Cyan requires power through the USB cable in order to connect to the computer?

 

It appears to be a normal XMOS implementation in that regard -- yes it does appear so. Evidence: unless my PPA is being powered the Cyan will just show dashes on the LCD which means its not connected.

[Miska]

2 hours ago, zorntel said:

Just to confirm, do your Linux NAA builds have the necessary LINUX drivers for the Cyan?

 

Yes, since it uses same USB ID as the Spring DAC...

[Miska]

1 hour ago, GUTB said:

It appears to be a normal XMOS implementation in that regard -- yes it does appear so. Evidence: unless my PPA is being powered the Cyan will just show dashes on the LCD which means its not connected.

 

Curiously the USB interface is not fully up through USB power because the DAC is not seen by computer unless powered up...

 

I like the way my DSC1 works with Amanero board, because regardless if the DAC is powered up or not, the USB interface is always fully up and running as long as it is connected to computer. So sequence in which things are started doesn't matter. If DAC is off, one can still play music to it, but of course it just doesn't do anything, being just null sink.

[beerandmusic]

On 1/11/2018 at 2:22 PM, Miska said:

My Cyan DSD is on the way...

 

Besides the Qutest, and NT505 this is the only other DAC that has my intrigue...sounds disappointing?

[Miska]

Today I did some measurements on the Cyan DSD. DSD256 and DSD128 seem to be the sweet spot... At both DSD64 and DSD512 the performance begins to suffer a bit compared to those "middle" rates.

 

[ted_b]

Jussi, since the Cyan does not use linear compensation for its R2R network (Spring does) do you think that this might affect your measured Cyan DSD performance (let alone sq)?  Or, as someone said to me (I think incorrectly but been wrong before ), he believes this Spring feature is irrelevant to any Holo dac DSD performance because Holo doesn't use R2R for DSD.   As I said, I pushed back, but am not tech enough to explain how R2R can do DSD without going to PCM.

 

I ask this cuz Tim is quoted here on CA as saying:

"The HoloAudio Cyan.........will have a dsd only r2r module or pcm only r2r module. One or the other. Also will include a src in case you would like to listen to dsd converted to pcm. Or with pcm module would be pcm converted to dsd. Take note whatever is on the r2r module will sound at its best. 

This Cyan will include a balanced headamp built in, along with 1/4 output. It is finished in the same look as our spring Dac yet a smaller chassis overall. Pricing will be very affordable. Unlike the spring, there will be no linear compensation tech, and costs were cut to allow r2r of your choice for one of the two... pcm or dsd exclusive r2r.  Then USB module is with xu208 xmos. "

[pkane2001]

3 hours ago, Miska said:

Today I did some measurements on the Cyan DSD. DSD256 and DSD128 seem to be the sweet spot... At both DSD64 and DSD512 the performance begins to suffer a bit compared to those "middle" rates.

 

 

Don't keep us in suspense, Jussi! Please share your measurements.

 

 

[Miska]

OK...

 

Here's THD for 1k at DSD256:

 

IMD for DSD256:

 

Jtest-24 for DSD256:

 

 

And here's THD for 1k at DSD128:

 

IMD for DSD128:

 

Jtest-24 for DSD128:

 

 

These are all with data from HQPlayer, using poly-sinc-xtr-2s filter and ASDM7 modulator.

 

I will personally stick to setting HQPlayer output to DSD256 with Cyan.

 

[pkane2001]

29 minutes ago, Miska said:

OK...

 

Here's THD for 1k at DSD256:

 

IMD for DSD256:

 

Jtest-24 for DSD256:

 

 

And here's THD for 1k at DSD128:

 

IMD for DSD128:

 

Jtest-24 for DSD128:

 

 

These are all with data from HQPlayer, using poly-sinc-xtr-2s filter and ASDM7 modulator.

 

I will personally stick to setting HQPlayer output to DSD256 with Cyan.

 

 

Looks pretty good, Jussi. Very clean overall. Can you also share the DSD512 measurements?

[Miska]

10 minutes ago, pkane2001 said:

Looks pretty good, Jussi. Very clean overall. Can you also share the DSD512 measurements?

 

I didn't make Jtest measurement for DSD512, but here's THD and IMD...

 

[pkane2001]

3 minutes ago, Miska said:

 

I didn't make Jtest measurement for DSD512, but here's THD and IMD...

 

 

Thanks again, Jussi! An obvious increase in the level of harmonic content with DSD512, but still low enough not to be a problem in real listening.