Pro-Ject Pre Box S2 Digital: MQA HW decoding at reasonable cost

[exdmd]

57 minutes ago, lucretius said:

 

In the Tidal app, go to Settings -> Streaming -> Speakers (Brooklyn DAC+) and click on the gear.  Then make sure "Passthrough MQA" is unchecked.

 

Thanks. Tried that before but seems I need to empty the queue close and reopen Tidal sometimes to get new settings to take effect. I can tell you that the Brooklyn DAC+ is a great sounding piece of kit especially with MQA enabled. Just comparing the Eagles debut album (Masters) in 96 (MQA disabled) to 192 (full MQA) the HiFi version is flat and two dimensional while full MQA opens up the sound stage. Imaging is much improved with space between instruments and the sound is overall more musically involving.

[revand]

On 2017. 10. 24. at 12:48 AM, left channel said:

@MagnusH they say full hardware unfolding beyond the first "MQA Core" is more about optimization for the specific DAC in use. Yet that is also what takes it to 24/192 if available. Personally I have no idea.

Scroll down to the "Full Decoder" graph and caption here:

I made a visual explanation of this article on my blog.

From that time (published in February this Year) Universal Music Group and Sony Music joined the MQA party as content providers, and Amarra 4 Luxe is now capable of decoding MQA.

 

[left channel]

@exdmd there is a Brooklyn/Brooklyn+ discussion here: https://www.computeraudiophile.com/forums/topic/25353-mytek-new-dac-brooklyn/

And here are Tidal discussions with relevant information:

https://www.computeraudiophile.com/forums/topic/37273-tidal-and-exclusive-use-of-audio-device/

https://www.computeraudiophile.com/forums/topic/21653-official-tidal-hifi-streaming-issues-thread/

 

Those Mytek products have a software control panel that play a big part in any configuration, so you may want to focus on the Brooklyn thread rather than the Tidal threads.

This thread is about a Pro-Ject product, and I hope the above links will help you navigate away from here.

[lucretius]

3 minutes ago, left channel said:

@lucretius there is a Brooklyn/Brooklyn+ discussion here: https://www.computeraudiophile.com/forums/topic/25353-mytek-new-dac-brooklyn/

And here are Tidal discussions with relevant information:

https://www.computeraudiophile.com/forums/topic/37273-tidal-and-exclusive-use-of-audio-device/

https://www.computeraudiophile.com/forums/topic/21653-official-tidal-hifi-streaming-issues-thread/

 

Those Mytek products have a software control panel that play a big part in any configuration, so you may want to focus on the Brooklyn thread rather than the Tidal threads.

This thread is about a Pro-Ject product, and I hope the above links will help you navigate away from here.

 

Ease up! My post was a two line response to someone's tidal settings.

 

[left channel]

@lucretius sorry I meant to tag @exdmd. Fixed.

[left channel]

I tested the 2.11 beta firmware, and did not hear the popping sound. I played files and streaming services at several sample rates from 44.1 to 192 kHz in MP3, "HiFi", Hi-Res, and MQA, watched the internal clock switch back-and-forth between 44.1 and 48 kHz, and heard no problem. I did not test DSD. I also found the control panel's volume and balance sliders now work. I believe I'm the third or fourth end user to post a good report on this beta. There's been no further announcement, but I expect a final release soon.

[left channel]

On 10/3/2017 at 6:45 AM, left channel said:

*The manual advises us the wall wart is only for coax and optical connections, and may cause problems when used together with USB.

 

I now have it direct from the designer that the manual is wrong. Apparently when you plug in the wall wart the S2 auto-switches away from the USB power just fine, and it's possible to get cleaner power that improves the sound that way.

I bet the auto-switch feature was added after the manual was written. And here I was so proud I RTFM (read the fine manual) ...but at least I'm not the tech writer. Somewhere there's a tech writer saying "FML".*

 

*Fix my lighthouse

[arcman]

For those who got the beta firmware, how do you install. I never got instructions. Plus i run osx, not certain if firmware is windows only. 

[MagnusH]

As far as I know, you need Windows to install it, but once installed you can move the DAC back to the Mac. You use the control panel for the Windows drivers (browse for firmware file and press update button).

[left channel]

It would be nice to learn of a way to do the firmware update from the command line in the OSX console. I don't want to get your hopes up, but I've posted a question to the designer.

[Jazz55]

I am facing the same problem as arcman is doing when trying to connect Bluesound node 2 with Pro-Ject Pre Box S2 and play MQA. The answer I get from the suppliers of Bluesound and Pro-Ject in Sweden is that Pro-Ject can only take in MQA signal through USB and not coaxial or optical. Blusound node 2 can only send MQA signal through coaxial or optical.

[arcman]

That stinks. Ill probably put this thing for sale once my preamp returns. Click and pop city. Mqa not working with bluesound. Ill probably get another dac for hi rez and just use th bluesound for mqa. Both digital outs and analog all work at same time which is nice. Pro-ject dropped the ball on this one for non usb

[Jazz55]

I guess that Pro-Ject will get a lot negative feeedback on this matter. I think there is a lot of customers who bought Pro-Ject Pre Box S2 with the intention to play MQA with the Bluesound streamer. Maybe it has to do with the price of the Pro-Ject that it is not fully developed.

[arcman]

This is frustrating and why MQA will fail with audiophiles. 3 years in and still no NON usb, mid priced dac ( except node2). Terrible

[MagnusH]

Its a budget DAC, and it sounds awesome, so it's to be expected that is has some limitations. The pops/clicks at sample rate changes are fixed, and I have told John about the slight stutter when beginning to play an MQA, so hopefully that will be fixed as well.

 

It might even be possible to fix firmware so it can do MQA from optical.

[arcman]

Screw it. The dac should have never went out the door with pops and clicks. Plus reversed dsd channels. I get a couple of hickups..but major ones like these are unascetabe regardless of price

[Miska]

3 hours ago, Jazz55 said:

I am facing the same problem as arcman is doing when trying to connect Bluesound node 2 with Pro-Ject Pre Box S2 and play MQA. The answer I get from the suppliers of Bluesound and Pro-Ject in Sweden is that Pro-Ject can only take in MQA signal through USB and not coaxial or optical. Blusound node 2 can only send MQA signal through coaxial or optical.

 

Just forget MQA...  

 

[gahabana]

4 hours ago, arcman said:

Screw it. The dac should have never went out the door with pops and clicks. Plus reversed dsd channels. I get a couple of hickups..but major ones like these are unascetabe regardless of price

@Arcman - not sure if you had purchased the S2 DAC and are not happy OR you have not purchased and was thinking about it and now you think it's not good for you. Not gonna argue on that - it's on opinion anyhow.

WHat I can tell you now is - with 2.11 Beta Firmware, the only issue is MQA (from time to time). So as that is advertised feature I assume Pro-Ject will have to do something about it ... for all else it is as good sounding if not better and more versatile to me then 6 times more expensive Benchmark DAC. Not that Benchmark DAC2 is bad in any way - it has frigging awesome PreAmp which is of awesome quality and it just works but supports none of the things that 'audiophiles' crave for (no 352/384/704/768kHz PCM, no DSD128/256/512, no MQA) and has simmilar diigtal inputs as S2 etc... all i am saying - i wanted DAC that sounds as good but supports fast switching between different sample rates , has remote , supports highres formats and allows one to play with upsampling etc.

It does all of that extremely well.

 

If you still think its crap due to having to upgrade firmware (and for the time being problem with MQA) - then don't go for it or sell it ... but today - MQA that you can not apply volume control due (e.g. from Roon or can not apply any filters etc means that 80% of the people will anyhow not us MQA and 20% or less might use it as people did in the old days - volume is as it is on a CD, i might to pull remote every now and then if i use playlists and no room correction control etc etc) - and that is fine as well - so i guess you fall into that category - no filters, no upsampling, no replaygain volume control and all you really need is MQA playback. yes - today S2 may not be that. tomorrow it might be. what's in your opinion better alternative that does not cost 5-6 times as much ?

 

[arcman]

Can somebody send me the windows drivers for the s2. To beat it all, my box did not include a cd. I have a windows computer. Pro-ject has no driver download page. Just email me a [email protected] I can provide a dropbox folder if that helps

[gahabana]

1 hour ago, Miska said:

 

Just forget MQA...  

 

@Miska

i think you are right. With future clearly moving into leveraging processing power all around (and in the cloud) to improve experience through upsample/resample or even more so with room DSPs etc ... MQA being closed, non documented (in spite of popular belief - if that was more openly documented - it wouild be PCM bits that anyone could process) ... it will remain noncompatible with any of that. 

In my mind that is not good for consumers nor for audiophiles nor for music lovers. 

I do understand and respect that MQA wants to make money (and i am making leap of faith that all of that is really making it sound better then 24bit FLAC or 96kHz/16bit FLAC that either could be srtreamed easily) ... but they could still charge people for 'encoder' (e.g. studios and/or streaming houses) and even have 'blue MQA light' go off for registering proper MQA format - but if format was more opened - it would be more friendly to everything ... room DSP and upsampling etc etc

 

[MagnusH]

Pro-Ject really needs to be put up some support page for this DAC, maybe a forum and definitely a download page for drivers and firmware (with instructions how to upgrade firmware).

 

I like the DAC, but the support is non-existent from Pro-Ject. John Westlake (the designer of the DAC) has helped a lot, but its not really his job to support a DAC that another company sells.

[left channel]

I know of at least one other DAC in this price class that has been released with the same reversed DSD channel bug: the SMSL M8. It was fixed with a firmware update.

Pro-Ject's quality is clearly impacted by outsourcing so many pieces of the project to so many countries. As for SMSL, my experience of making things in China is that it can be...well, like herding cats. Sometimes. Just sayin'.

[left channel]

If anyone needs the CD (ISO), beta firmware, or manual PDF, just PM me. I've responded to @arcman here and on pinkfishmedia.

[GUTB]

Wait. You guys said this was a hardware MQA decoder? Then WHY does it need the USB interface for MQA? Could it be that this isn’t hardware decoding at all but software running on the USB controller?

[arcman]

Thanks for the files. I got the unit to version 2.11. Pops and clicks much better. The files do install using a windows emulator like Parelle Windows. You get a free trial for 15 days  I’ll probably purchase a license anyway. I have some photo triggers ( I’m a pro photographer) that can only update thru windows