Pro-Ject Pre Box S2 Digital: MQA HW decoding at reasonable cost

[MagnusH]

I wish it was both PCM and DSD, easy to solve then (just swap output RCA), I guess I could up-sample everything to DSD and swap RCA to get all music working correctly.

[Samuel T Cogley]

Thank you @left channel for the Pink Fish Media link.  It's always been a pet peeve of mine that most, but not all audio manufacturers use the "viewed from the front" convention for the placement of the left and right channel connectors on the back of a unit.  I suspect the designer of the printed circuit board (Pro-Ject apparently outsources this?) thought they were being diligent when flipping the connectors because from their POV, the "back is the front".

 

This coupled with the sample rate change clicking and possibly inconsistent channel flipping between PCM and DSD gives me pause to purchase this unit until all of this is sorted.

 

I'll keep watching to see what happens.

[GUTB]

There’s literally no chance this tiny 5v box seriously competes with a real DAC.

[asdf1000]

15 minutes ago, GUTB said:

There’s literally no chance this tiny 5v box seriously competes with a real DAC.

 

I have a DirectStream and Hugo2 (real DACs?) and I purchased a tiny 5V iFi iDAC2 for my old man (my dad). The iFi sounds shockingly good, especially when fed with quality power and a quality USB signal (ultraRendu + Uptone LPS-1) and fed with up-sampled DSD256 via Roon.

 

I can't wait to try this little Pro-Ject unit. I may upgrade the old fella's iFi with this.

 

 

[left channel]

10 hours ago, GUTB said:

There’s literally no chance this tiny 5v box seriously competes with a real DAC.

 

That depends on what you mean by "a real DAC". At its price point it punches above its weight class, but it is certainly not a high-end product.

[TesarPa]

Well, I just returned the item to Kolumbus24.com, where they have it in stock. I tested it during two weeks at my mid-range setup (about 5-6 thousand USD value) and found the sound too digital and not enjoyable. Compared to Audio-GD DAC 19, it's truly like night and day. But you know, YMMV.

[MagnusH]

Some people prefer the more analog and less analytical sound of R2R dacs, but its also a Chinese dac costing over 50% more than the Pro-Ject dac, so if it works good I would expect it to sound better.

 

I up-sample everything to DSD,  which makes the Pro-Ject dac a little smoother, and together with my rather non-aggressive Dynaudio speakers it gives a very good sound.

[MagnusH]

Btw, if you like R2R dacs, try the Bimbo (Schiit Bitfrost Multibit). I would have bought that one if it had either a volume or supported USB volume. It also comes with the new Gen 5 USB board, which is supposed to be very good.

[TesarPa]

AFAIK, my Audio-GD DAC 19 is not R2R. Nevertheless, it sounds fantastic. I'm glad others are happy with S2. 

[MagnusH]

Might be different versions, but from what I can read its a R2R, for example: http://www.qobuz.com/gb-en/info/hi-res-guide/audio-gd-dac-19-three-qobuzisms177649

[TesarPa]

Manufacturer's own web doesn't list this item as R2R, see http://www.audio-gd.com/Products-EN.htm. On product page http://www.audio-gd.com/Pro/dac/DAC1911/DAC19EN.htm is not a word on R2R. But who know. Nevermind.

[left channel]

@TesarPa I believe the PCM1704UK chip is R2R.

As for the S2, I agree this little Box is probably not be the best match for a system worth thousands of dollars.

[MagnusH]

Its also quite practical, with a nice informative display, volume control, remote (I will update to the aluminium one) headphone output in front, etc. And with the up-coming USB volume it will be even more practical.

 

At the end, it was mostly this that made me buy it over the Schiit Bitfrost Multibit, which might sound better but need separate headphone amp, no display, no USB volume, no remote.

[left channel]

Yes even though I keep trying to put it in its place, I'm having a lot of fun with it!

[MagnusH]

Btw, do you also notice a step up in SQ when up sampling to DSD? If I up-sample to say 384 khz PCM I don't notice much, but going to DSD64 gives increased smoothness and clarity. I can't say I notice much from DSD64 to DSD256 though, except in the %CPU in the task manager :-)

[left channel]

I'm mostly using the S2 as an MQA toy in a very simple desktop system, and haven't done much with DSD but appreciate your reports on that and am looking forward to more.

[Samuel T Cogley]

57 minutes ago, left channel said:

I'm mostly using the S2 as an MQA toy...

 

That's why I want one.  The Meridian Explorer 2 I have strikes me as a middling DAC (it's quite small).  I want to hear more decoded MQA, but I'm not so interested in it that I'm willing to pony up for a Mytek.

 

Maybe I'll wait for the iFI iDSD Nano BL.

[firedog]

13 minutes ago, Samuel T Cogley said:

 

That's why I want one.  The Meridian Explorer 2 I have strikes me as a middling DAC (it's quite small).  I want to hear more decoded MQA, but I'm not so interested in it that I'm willing to pony up for a Mytek.

 

Maybe I'll wait for the iFI iDSD Nano BL.

I think the Explorer2 sounds quite good. Obviously the S2 has a lot more features, and I might have bought it if it was on the market when I bought the Meridian. But I'm quite skeptical that you are going to get some noticeable uptick in SQ from it. 

[Samuel T Cogley]

Just now, firedog said:

I think the Explorer2 sounds quite good. Obviously the S2 has a lot more features, and I might have bought it if it was on the market when I bought the Meridian. But I'm quite skeptical that you are going to get some noticeable uptick in SQ from it. 

 

Thanks for this.  The ME2 gives me listening fatigue after around 30 minutes.  And there is apparently a bug that doesn't turn off the MQA filter when switching from MQA back to conventional PCM (the MQA Technical Analysis thread has details).  I work around this by unplugging/plugging the DAC from the USB cable.

 

I've only ever used the line out of the ME2 driving various headphone amps (Schiit Lyr 2, Lake People G109-A, Violectric HPA V281), and the results are the same for me.  I'm hoping they get the issues sorted with the S2 soon.  I really don't need yet another piece of iFi gear.  I have 4 of their DACs already.

[MagnusH]

The Pro-Ject DAC also does full MQA decoding in hardware, I think the Me2 only does the second unfold, so you need software to do the first unfold for you (I might be wrong though).

 

Btw, I replaced my DragonFly Red with the Pro-Ject DAC, and the difference between them is quite big. I just switched to the DragonFly Red and the sound is flat and boring in comparison (very easily noticed). And from what I read, the DragonFly Red sounds better than the ME2, so you can expect a real SQ upgrade.

[Samuel T Cogley]

4 minutes ago, MagnusH said:

The Pro-Ject DAC also does full MQA decoding in hardware, I think the Me2 only does the second unfold, so you need software to do the first unfold for you (I might be wrong though).

 

Pretty sure the ME2 does complete MQA decoding.

[firedog]

14 minutes ago, MagnusH said:

The Pro-Ject DAC also does full MQA decoding in hardware, I think the Me2 only does the second unfold, so you need software to do the first unfold for you (I might be wrong though).

 

Btw, I replaced my DragonFly Red with the Pro-Ject DAC, and the difference between them is quite big. I just switched to the DragonFly Red and the sound is flat and boring in comparison (very easily noticed). And from what I read, the DragonFly Red sounds better than the ME2, so you can expect a real SQ upgrade.

ME2 supposedly does full MQA.

[MagnusH]

Okidoki, full MQA it is :-)

 

[MagnusH]

On 2017-10-13 at 5:25 PM, Samuel T Cogley said:

The ME2 gives me listening fatigue after around 30 minutes. 

While I am confident the Pro-Ject DAC will be a big SQ upgrade from ME2, listening fatigue is usually caused by to much reflections or standing waves in your room. So don't assume a new/better DAC will solve that problem.

 

Acoustic treatment and/or digital room correction might solve your problems though. Or lowering the volume, or stop listening to hip-hop :-)

[Samuel T Cogley]

On 10/14/2017 at 12:33 PM, MagnusH said:

While I am confident the Pro-Ject DAC will be a big SQ upgrade from ME2, listening fatigue is usually caused by to much reflections or standing waves in your room. So don't assume a new/better DAC will solve that problem.

 

Acoustic treatment and/or digital room correction might solve your problems though. Or lowering the volume, or stop listening to hip-hop :-)

 

100% of my listening to the ME2 is through headphones.  Other DACs (Yggdrasil, Gungnir, iDAC2. iDSD Micro) don't give me listening fatigue through headphones.  I'm not trying to slag the ME2.  It's performance is consummate with its size. YMMV of course.