AURALiC G2 series digital components (ARIES G2, VEGA G2 and etc) information

[The Computer Audiophile]

Photo from Axpona today. 

[The Computer Audiophile]

26 minutes ago, allhifi said:

In either case, a major faux pas that will hinder sales (and respect) significantly.

 

Why would he lose respect for this design decision? I don't see how you can tie respecting a person or company into a design decision like this. Nobody is forcing you to purchase the product. You don't like it, you don't buy it. It's that easy. 

 

I believe you may be a little melodramatic with this one :~)

[The Computer Audiophile]

1 hour ago, allhifi said:

 

By far, the best digital connection (bar none) is either of the ones referenced. Does that give him some credibility that either is not employed? A $4K Streamer without the finest connection ? Why not ? 

 

And thanks for telling me I "may "bypass" (not purchase) the product. Without your suggestion, I don't know what I'd do !

 

pj   

 

Wow. 

[The Computer Audiophile]

Just now, allhifi said:

That's what i thought when I read your reply  -WOW.

 

Some guy looks at a $4K Streamer without the lowest jitter interface extant and says " why is that concerning ?"  Wow, for sure.

 

pj

 

You seem very angry. This is audio. Nobody is saving babies or killing puppies.

 

Perhaps a quote from Bertrand Russell can encapsulate my thoughts better than I:

 

“The whole problem with the world is that fools and fanatics are always so certain of themselves, and wise people so full of doubts.”

[The Computer Audiophile]

28 minutes ago, allhifi said:

 

CA: Not angry at all. However, it truly troubles me that consumers expectations are so low for expensive equipment ! These guys (designers) should be accountable. And if not, it's prudent for a passionate person to inform potential consumers of these blunders.

 

I'm not sure if you are unable to fabricate your own thoughts (accurately & succinctly) or whether you simply used this authors line/quote to deflect what otherwise may be seen as a bit of your own harshness ?

 

pj   

(I, on the other write endlessly, and shall share one with you (a poem or quote) tomorrow. I need some sleep. lol) 

 

Peter - Please show me data with respect to consumer expectations being low for expensive equipment. 

 

You are acting like the product police. If you disagree with a design, someone must be held accountable. Very strange to me. 

 

You have 100% confidence in your opinions. Can you share what information you  used to reach your conclusions?

 

Based my research, I'm fairly certain your conclusions are incorrect. I've been talking to DAC designers about interfaces for 10 years. Each designer has a little different take on the choices, but absolutely none of the top designers I most respect would agree with you. What is said online in marketing materials and what is said behind closed doors are two different things. 

 

There is no perfect interface. There is no best interface. If we look at interfaces in a vacuum and don't consider any other components or what's going on to get data to the interface and what happens after the interface, we will reach different conclusions than looking at real world situations. Specifications, application notes, and theoretical potential are far different from an implemented product. 

 

If there were one or two best interfaces, all high performance products would offer them. 

[The Computer Audiophile]

4 hours ago, Emerald Core said:

I just hope their G2 stack gets reviewed before December. 

Why? I'll be getting it, not sure about timeline though. 

[The Computer Audiophile]

1 hour ago, Mike Pinkerton said:

I still don't get why there is no standalone DAC in the G2 lineup. Everything, even the Vega, has built-in streaming. Am I missing something? 

 

Hi Mike - What do you consider to be a stand alone DAC? Something without an Ethernet input? Just curious. 

[The Computer Audiophile]

First a little internet etiquette, ALL CAPS means yelling. I'll assume you understand what an exclamation point means. Please keep this in mind when accusing me of being angry, while at the same time looking at your own statements.

 

 

 

On 7/5/2017 at 9:53 AM, allhifi said:

 

The decision  to offer models with no front panel operational controls is  incomprehensible.

Have "they" not learned a damn thing --or even experimented with/without these basic controls ?

 

I consider "incomprehensible" to be something on the order of using chemical weapons on one's own people (think Syria and Iraq). I consider the lack of front panel controls a design decision that some may not agree with. Fortunately there are countless other product from which to chose. 

 

Suggesting AURALiC hasn't learned "a damn thing" or that the haven't experimented with something is quite presumptuous. Unless you work there, you have absolutely no idea. 

 

 

 

 

 

On 7/12/2017 at 3:00 PM, allhifi said:

Yeh I know he wishes to sell his (non MQA) DAC along with Streamer, but fails to recognize that there are innumerous existing DAC's with these highly respected interfaces. And that not everyone will desire his new DAC --or wishes to invest in both at once.

 

Fails to recognize? Do you have a mole inside the company that's feeding you this information? 

 

I consider something to be "innumerous" is it is either 1. very numerous, or 2. incapable of being counted; countless. I'm willing to bet you could count the number of DACs with such interfaces in less than 10 minutes of Google work.

 

 

 

17 hours ago, allhifi said:

Next, you misread my statement, which read: " ...consumers expectations are so low for expensive equipment" .

 

And NOT, as you somehow read: 

... " Please show me data with respect to consumer expectations being low for expensive equipment." 

 

I asked for data to backup your opinion that consumer expectations are low for expensive equipment. Still waiting for this. All my experience suggests otherwise.

 

 

 

 

 

Quote

Moving on, you state:

" You are acting like the product police. If you disagree with a design, someone must be held accountable. Very strange to me"

 

What do you think sites such as yours are providing --a policing forum, plain and simple. And, a great thing at that I must add. As do, sharp-eyed/mind readers, and of course, we hope, the traditional audio rags.

 

Absolutely not. I have no interest in being the world's HiFi police and a place for people who disagree with a subjective design decision to come and espouse opinions as if they are facts.

 

CA is all about education. Educating people about technologies and products empowers them to increase their enjoyment of this wonderful hobby.

 

 

 

 

Quote

 

It strikes me how bent-out-of-shape (and angry) your reply, when all the G2 series had to do was OFFER these additional digital connections (IF FOR NO OTHER REASON THAN TO ENSURE GREATEST CONNECTION FLEXIBILITY) for greatest compatibility.

 

Many manufacturers believe offering the greatest connection flexibility decreases performance. I don't speak for AURALiC, just offering information to educate you, based on what I've been told by top designers. Standard HDMI (non i2s) is much more ubiquitous and would offer the greatest number of consumers the greatest number of options. You should really be arguing for standard HDMI if you are interested in "ENSUR[ING] GREATEST CONNECTION FLEXIBILITY."

 

 

 

 

Quote

Precisely why ALL (premium digital HiFi) should be offer consumers spending serious money all available connection options so at the very least, the purchaser himself can decide on which works best for him, and his particular product compliment.

 

Again, why stop at i2s? Why not add standard HDMI if you are truly interested in "all available connection options." I could list more connection options.

 

 

 

 

 

15 hours ago, allhifi said:

name one that states that either i2S or Word Clock (Wrd. Clk.) is, was and will continue to be the INFERIOR digital interface ?

 

I can't name designers in public. I suggest you ask some of them. They'll give you plenty of reasons. 

 

 

 

8 hours ago, allhifi said:

CA: A casual (i2S) perusing revealed the following (do take note):

 

X- " .. I2S skips the S/PDIF transmitter and S/PDIF receiver. I2S is actually a format to use internally within digital audioequipment. When equipment is interconnected via I2S, usually line buffers and receivers are specified so that it can drive the cable capacitance and reject noise. However, the drivers and receivers are not perfect, so there is still a small amount of interface jitter, but it's much less than with typical S/PDIF."

 

X- " ...I use I2S gear in both my main system (transport & DAC) and headphone rig (jitter reduction unit to DAC). The lower jitter of the I2S connection as compared to both AES/EBU and 75 ohm BNC connected S/PDIF has a smoother, glare free sound; I much prefer my gear hooked up with I2S. Kal Rubinson wrote an article years ago in the Audio Amateur on how to add an I2S bus to a CD player. I hope to someday convert a few of my other components. Fortunately, my transport in my big rig was already designed around the I2S connection."

Q) Could you explain a bit why it can bring jitter lower.

 

A) "It isn't so much that "it can bring lower jitter" as it avoids higher jitter.

When the clock is embedded in the digital audio signal, the likelihood of jitter increases. This can be avoided when the clock signal is carried separately from the audio, as it is with I2S or in some pro gear with separate word clock connections, 

 

For a decent explanation, see:"
http://www.anthemav.com/OldSitev1/pdf/i2Srev1.pdf

 

 

Tell me again CA, about the superiority of SPDIF ?

Or, rather why i2S or Word Clock should not be used (in a four-thousand dollar Streamer or DAC) ?

Much appreciated.

 peter jasz 

 

 

That information does nothing for me.

 

In addition, please tell me where I said S/PDIF was superior. I went into detail about how a single interface in a real product isn't superior. 

 

 

 

 

 

 

6 hours ago, allhifi said:

 

Hi uncola: Good points. If i2S (over HDMi) is not satisfactory, then certainly the Word clock signal (over BNC) should do the trick !

 

What interface are you suggesting be used in combination with the word clock, because audio is't sent over this interface?

 

 

 

[The Computer Audiophile]

 

On 7/12/2017 at 10:31 PM, allhifi said:

 

By far, the best digital connection (bar none) is either of the ones referenced.

 

Exhibit A: 

I believe you referenced i2s (HDMI or RJ45). Let's keep your above statement in the back of our minds for this discussion.

 

 

 

 

 

On 7/12/2017 at 11:46 PM, allhifi said:

... the lowest jitter interface extant ...

 

Exhibit B: 

I believe you referenced i2s (HDMI or RJ45). Let's keep your above statement in the back of our minds for this discussion.

 

 

 

 

 

Quote

... the superior (according to the designer's and listeners themselves!) i2S or Wrd. Clk. connections.

 

Exhibit C: 

Let's keep your above statement in the back of our minds for this discussion.

 

 

 

 

 

 

Quote

long-standing superiority of these connections (that Esoteric, Rockna, PS Audio, even the bargain basement priced Gustard X-20PRO and many others have offered EXPECTANT audiophile consumers for decades !).

 

Exhibit D: 

Let's keep your above statement in the back of our minds for this discussion.

 

 

 

 

 

 

10 hours ago, allhifi said:

...These are esssential for the best clock/Jitter performance...

 

 

Exhibit E: 

Let's keep your above statement in the back of our minds for this discussion.

 

 

 

 

 

10 hours ago, allhifi said:

...the standard shit-ball SPDIF...

 

 

Exhibit F: 

Let's keep your above statement in the back of our minds for this discussion.

 

 

 

 

Quote

 

Continuing, you ask " You have 100% confidence in your opinions. Can you share what information you  used to reach your conclusions?"

What confidence am I espousing CA?

 

Please see exhibits A through F above. This is the crux of my argument. Your 100% confidence in your opinion that certain interfaces are the best, despite information I provided and information you could glean from additional research.

 

 

 

 

[The Computer Audiophile]

Psychological projection is a theory in psychology in which humans defend themselves against their own unconscious impulses or qualities (both positive and negative) by denying their existence in themselves while attributing them to others. For example, a person who is habitually rude may constantly accuse other people of being rude. It incorporates blame shifting.

 

According to some research, the projection of one's unconscious qualities onto others is a common process in everyday life.

 

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Psychological_projection

[The Computer Audiophile]

12 minutes ago, allhifi said:

 

Right. As I suspected, a social sciences degree, or is this just a hobby of yours ?

 

Geesh, being psyhco-analyzed on CA. Go figure ! lol

 

pj

(P.S. Let's "focus" on Hi-Fi)

 

Actually yes, undergrad in social sciences (Summa Cum Laude).

[The Computer Audiophile]

2 minutes ago, allhifi said:

 

BTW, a simple question: If you had to choose, would you consider SPDIF, or something else (for the best possible performance)?

 

pj

 

Which photograph would you purchase?

 

Photograph by:

 

1. Average Joe photographer with a 100 megapixel medium format camera. 

 

Or

 

2. Ansel Adams with a Polaroid. 

 

 

Now switch this to DACs and interfaces. I'll go with S/PDIF from the best designers over i2s from a lesser designer any day. 

 

Talking about technologies in a vacuum doesn't advance the conversation and can really misinform people. 

[The Computer Audiophile]

4 minutes ago, jtwrace said:

Art is purely subjective.  Audio isn't.  People make it so but there is a direct correlation to measurements but most want to overlook that for many reasons.  

 

Perhaps my example wasn't clear. It has nothing to do with objective or subjective aspects. It was more to say that, in the hands of a talented designer, an spdif-based dac can out perform an i2s dac. Thus, the question about which interface someone would select, can't be answered in a vacuum. 

[The Computer Audiophile]

A bit to harsh and personal @tallica1. I had to remove your post. 

[The Computer Audiophile]

Talking about a brand is very different from talking about a person. We allow one but try to curtail the other. 

 

Thanks for your respect and understanding. 

[The Computer Audiophile]

32 minutes ago, allhifi said:

although I don't know the photographer mentioned

 

That says it all :~)

 

Now back to the topic at hand. 

 

 

[The Computer Audiophile]

No. You don't seem to get anything I say and your responses don't make sense to me. 

 

Not being personal or attacking you, just stating how I see this situation. I'll bow out of this discussion now. 

[The Computer Audiophile]

32 minutes ago, mjb said:

4 1/2 pages of crap. I hate it when threads do this.

 

Dare i say you just contributed to the crap :~)

[The Computer Audiophile]

I agree :~)

[The Computer Audiophile]

I have the Vega G2 and Aries G2 and will publish a review in about one week. 

[The Computer Audiophile]

17 minutes ago, Milt99 said:

Winter Solstice today.

Any hopes for a review publish on the 22nd?

Happy Holidays to CA!

I wish, but I ran into a rare glitch that should be fixed soon. 

 

Happy holidays to you!

[The Computer Audiophile]

46 minutes ago, Nuz1 said:

Anxious to read your review.  Has the issue been fixed so we can expect your review soon?

Not fixed yet. Supposed to be a firmware update soon that will take care of it.

[The Computer Audiophile]

On 6/19/2018 at 1:07 PM, the_bat said:

 

This was more than ten weeks ago.

 

Did I miss it?

 

4 minutes ago, Bones13 said:

I seem to be missing a lot of promised reviews also. The Auralic support site is a bit scary to read, although I assume it is only people with problems that are there. The Lumin equivalent, the U1, is nearly twice the price, but does have a separate linear PSU. As Aurender is not supporting Roon, I am not considering their units.

 

 

Hi Guys - I had some extremely early versions of the ARIES G2 and VEGA G2 and ran into some issues that weren't representative of the product. For example, I had to send the VEGA G2 back because it wouldn't power up. Turns out the fuse inside broke. It wasn't blown, just broke. So strange. Never seen that before. I look forward to getting the G2 stuff back soon.