DIY DC power cables

[JohnSwenson]

41 minutes ago, JBL said:

Hi John,

 

Could there be any advantage to using multiple runs of smaller gauge and doing a double starquad geometry?  I.e. 4x24awg of the VH Audio solid core wire into starquad.  Then take 4 of those 4x24awg and put into another starquad.  Combined wire gauge remains the same vs 4x18awg so would doubling up on the starquad offer any additional benefits?

 

 

JBL

I have never tried this, but Belden iconoclast has actually done this in one of their cables. They seem to think it has advantages, but my guess is that the "quad of quads" has to be kept "just right" in order for this work. Keeping the exactly correct relationship of everything is probably very difficult. If you cannot maintain this a regular star quad is probably better.

 

John S.

[JBL]

Given how much better my system sounded with the DIY starquad DC power cords and John's earlier comments about proper vs improper shield implementation got me to wondering about my expensive custom made XLR splitters from a somewhat well known audio cable company. 

 

Long story short, I made starquad XLR splitters with the same VH Audio solid core OCC wire in 21awg.  Put them in place of the custom fancy schmancy XLR splitter I had bought.  Result-no more HF noise that had been present in my system since I put in the custom XLR splitters.  Sound got smoother, more detailed, more dynamic, blacker background, and better bass.  

 

I took apart the custom made XLR.  It was made with a twisted pair of stranded copper 22awg PE insulation with mediocre braided copper shield.  I am guessing the shield was not properly implemented and with low quality twister pair stranded wire the XLR splitter acted like an antenna, add in some skin effect from the cheap stranded wire and you get all kinds of crap added to your music.  

 

 

[kostas6a3]

Just received my new HDplex 300W power supply.

I'm thinking of building four cables for the DC used with the Gotham 11301 GAC-4/1.

http://www.gothamcable.com/en/gothamcables/starquad/11301gac41ultrapro?searchTerm=11301+GAC-4%2F1

My question is: Should I connect the shield that it has somewhere or leave it free?

[cpasmoi]

Hello

I have just redone all my DC connections for the linear power supplies by replacing the Gotham with the VH audio Starquad and what a step forward

 

https://www.vhaudio.com/v-quad.html

 

I really don't regret it at all 😀

 

cpasmoi
 

[Superdad]

4 hours ago, cpasmoi said:

Hello

I have just redone all my DC connections for the linear power supplies by replacing the Gotham with the VH audio Starquad and what a step forward

 

https://www.vhaudio.com/v-quad.html

 

That is very nice wire to be sure. Foamed Teflon is great.  But at $27 per foot--for the 4 x 21AWG copper version--plus $22 each for the Oyaide plugs, it can be a bit costly.  Makes our new SAPPHIRE DC cable (4 x 18AWG silver-plated copper, Teflon insulation, full braided shield) look like a bargain at $110 for 5-foot (1.5m)--terminated and with luxurious cotton-feel blue sheath.

But we produce it only with 5.5mm x 2.5mm Oyaide plug at power supply end (choice of 2.5mm or 2.1mm hole at device end), because it is sold primarily to our JS-2 clients.

 

[JBL]

@cpasmoiYep, the VH Audio wire is awesome stuff.

 

@kostas6a3Do a search for JSSG360.  John Swenson explains how to implement the shield correctly for starquad.  However, using just starquad on its own provides significant noise reduction.

[kostas6a3]

I need 4 cables of 1 meter in order to connect all the devices to the HDplex.

I know @Superdad the UpTone cable as well as @cpasmoi the VHaudio but their prices along with the taxes and customs charges my country has make them quite expensive at the moment.

I have the plugs, Oyaide 5.5mm x 2.5mm and 2.1m as well as the Neutrik XLR so only the cable remains. The 5 m. Gotham costs about 100 euros and with taxes etc. a maximum of 150 euros.

@JBL The JSSG360 method, if I understood correctly, is to connect the two ends of the protective shield with a separate cable externally?

 

[JBL]

@kostas6a3If you can find teflon jacketed solid core OCC wire locally I think it is a worthwhile expense.  I built a starquad DC power cord using some Canare 4S6 which is similar to the Gotham wire.  The teflon OCC wire outperformed it by a large margin.  Not even close. 

 

 

[JBL]

For anyone who has made it this far into the thread here are a few more tweaks to try with the DC starquad power cord.

 

Solid silver wires in teflon tubes.  Provided a more resolved sound with better PRAT over OCC copper.

 

Wrapping  the cord with a couple layers of heavy duty teflon tape, then wrapping silicone tape on top of it.  Enhanced microdetails, bigger, deeper soundstage and improved dynamics.  When wrapping the cable make sure to make it nice and tight.  The purpose being to maintain the geometry of the wire and also minimize any vibrations.

 

The yellow covering is the teflon tape.  The red covering is the silicone tape.

 

[lwr]

Please provide a link to where I can buy the yellow teflon and the red silicone tapes.  Thanks!

[JBL]

If you live in the US then Home Depot will have it.  Otherwise you can order from Amazon.

 

https://www.amazon.com/D-N-Industrial-Plumbers-Density-Fittings/dp/B08S5XQ9NQ/ref=sr_1_2?crid=CO2Y0DHGF6V1&keywords=ptfe%2Btape%2Bgas&qid=1658195025&sprefix=ptfe%2Btape%2Bgas%2Caps%2C145&sr=8-2&th=1

 

https://www.amazon.com/XFasten-Silicone-Fusing-1-Inch-36-Foot/dp/B01MY0DO3B/ref=sxts_rp_s_1_0?content-id=amzn1.sym.14b5a3ec-ddf3-42f1-bf1e-8515f8d25a34%3Aamzn1.sym.14b5a3ec-ddf3-42f1-bf1e-8515f8d25a34&crid=5AJJDW1LLJW1&cv_ct_cx=silicon%2Btape&keywords=silicon%2Btape&pd_rd_i=B01N7KC62D&pd_rd_r=3b40929a-5401-4e33-9462-2afd682ff015&pd_rd_w=W1fx5&pd_rd_wg=u3PJS&pf_rd_p=14b5a3ec-ddf3-42f1-bf1e-8515f8d25a34&pf_rd_r=QP0G6W9P1F9KPKG4P6ZW&qid=1658195078&sprefix=silicon%2Btape%2Caps%2C133&sr=1-1-f0029781-b79b-4b60-9cb0-eeda4dea34d6&th=1

[lwr]

Thanks for the links.  Really looking forward to hearing the benefits of your cable wrap technique in my system.

[R1200CL]

On 7/2/2022 at 5:26 AM, kostas6a3 said:

I need 4 cables of 1 meter in order to connect all the devices to the HDplex.

I know @Superdad the UpTone cable as well as @cpasmoi the VHaudio but their prices along with the taxes and customs charges my country has make them quite expensive at the moment.

I have the plugs, Oyaide 5.5mm x 2.5mm and 2.1m as well as the Neutrik XLR so only the cable remains. The 5 m. Gotham costs about 100 euros and with taxes etc. a maximum of 150 euros.

@JBL The JSSG360 method, if I understood correctly, is to connect the two ends of the protective shield with a separate cable externally?

 

 

Easiest is to purchase from Ghent

 

https://www.ghentaudio.com/part/dc-gac4.html

[bit01]

This star quad with triple shielding makes a great DC cable. You can send it to Ghent for building it in JSSG style (for a charge)  if you do not want to DIY.

 

https://www.vandenhul.com/product/the-integration-hybrid-halogen-free/

[JBL]

Went to a fellow audiophiles house and did a more extensive AB comparison of my DC starquad VH Audio 18awg OCC copper with foamed teflon against the 18awg solid silver in teflon tubes.  DC cables were used between a Farad Super3 to the modem.

 

After going back and forth about 5 times, we both agreed the solid silver with teflon tubes was the better sounding of the two.  The silver provided a much blacker background from which the music emerged.  Notes had much longer decay times.  Smoother sounding.  Better dynamics and microdetails.  A more resolved presentation of the music with better separation between instruments and vocals. 

 

Next up is to cryo treat the cables and see if that can improve the sound even more. 

 

Silver wire was sourced from an ebay seller out of Croatia. 

[FIndingit]

Un upgrade sometimes bigger than the cable itself is to replace 2.1/2.5mm dc plugs with Deans connectors. Not recommended for ER but the power supply side. 

[JBL]

Yep.  Just did that.  Solid silver tubes crimped on the wire side and slide perfect fit on GX16 side.  Not recommended unless you know how to check for polarity and make 100% sure you are correct otherwise will blow up your gear.  Try at your own risk.

 

On the plus side-much better sounding than the GX16-4 plug.  A bigger more dynamics sound and soundstage.  Improved bass output and low level detail.  Solid silver tubing FTW!

 

Silver tubing is from Rio Grande-3.56mm OD x .51mm wall 5N grade dead soft.  Also polished the silver first with Simichrome to remove any oxidation.

 

 

[Nick90]

On 7/24/2022 at 3:25 AM, JBL said:

Yep.  Just did that.  Solid silver tubes crimped on the wire side and slide perfect fit on GX16 side.  Not recommended unless you know how to check for polarity and make 100% sure you are correct otherwise will blow up your gear.  Try at your own risk.

 

On the plus side-much better sounding than the GX16-4 plug.  A bigger more dynamics sound and soundstage.  Improved bass output and low level detail.  Solid silver tubing FTW!

 

Silver tubing is from Rio Grande-3.56mm OD x .51mm wall 5N grade dead soft.  Also polished the silver first with Simichrome to remove any oxidation.

 

 

That’s a pretty neat trick there!

 

can you make a photo of the Farad 4 pin inlet and mark the + and 0 ?

 

Did you compare solid silver vs Mundorf?

[JBL]

Polarity looking at the back of  the Super3 GX16-4 plug.  Top left is positive, top right is negative, bottom left is negative and bottom right is positive.  I would highly recommend using a multimeter to verify the polarity before plugging your device in just to be 100% certain.

 

I did compare a 2 wire Mundorf silver/gold 15.5awg to a starquad pure silver 18awg.  The Mundorf sounded somewhat soft and lacked detail and dynamics compared to the pure silver starquad.  The 15.5awg was also too stiff and the teflon insulation tape too thin and fragile to do a starquad twist.   Another forum member in this thread had mentioned liking the 2 wire Mundorf better than the starquad as well so I opted to make the 2 wire version for testing and comparing.

 

The solid silver starquad with silver tubing plugs and double wrapped with teflon and silicone tape has so far been the best sounding of all the cables I have made and tried.  One of my audio friends who did the comparisons with me came to the same conclusions.  When we compared the OCC copper version to the solid silver, it was a significant difference.  A much bigger soundstage, smoother frequency response, and more detailed but without the brightness normally associated with silver. 

[Nick90]

On 8/12/2022 at 11:43 PM, JBL said:

Polarity looking at the back of  the Super3 GX16-4 plug.  Top left is positive, top right is negative, bottom left is negative and bottom right is positive.  I would highly recommend using a multimeter to verify the polarity before plugging your device in just to be 100% certain.

 

I did compare a 2 wire Mundorf silver/gold 15.5awg to a starquad pure silver 18awg.  The Mundorf sounded somewhat soft and lacked detail and dynamics compared to the pure silver starquad.  The 15.5awg was also too stiff and the teflon insulation tape too thin and fragile to do a starquad twist.   Another forum member in this thread had mentioned liking the 2 wire Mundorf better than the starquad as well so I opted to make the 2 wire version for testing and comparing.

 

The solid silver starquad with silver tubing plugs and double wrapped with teflon and silicone tape has so far been the best sounding of all the cables I have made and tried.  One of my audio friends who did the comparisons with me came to the same conclusions.  When we compared the OCC copper version to the solid silver, it was a significant difference.  A much bigger soundstage, smoother frequency response, and more detailed but without the brightness normally associated with silver. 

JBL thank you for your detailed reply and link in pm chat, I will ask the seller if he can give a quote. 

 

If I may ask you some more questions regarding the difference with the 2 wire Mundorf DC cable versus 4 wire pure silver: I use for example pure silver litz wire interlinks, but have found that you need more strands than copper to make the sound a more full-bodied. The Mundorf DC cable is chosen 1.5mm for this reason if I say so correctly.
So my question is if the 4 starquad sounds as full-bodied as the thick wire 2x 1.5mm Mundorf?

 

Can you also send me a link or the item number with the right silver tube at Rio Grande, as I am having trouble finding hollow tubing that is dead soft. They also offer sterling, argetine and other types, im not sure which is the good one. That would really help me :)

 

[JBL]

I thought the sound of the starquad as full bodied as the two wire 15.5awg Mundorf.  The combined wire gauge of the starquad is 16awg/side since you are using two 18awg wires on each side so the difference is negligibile.

 

I used the 3.56mm heavy walled soft .999 pure tubing.  I would highly recommend covering the tubes with heat shrink as I did in the pictures so that you don't accidentally cause a short. 

 

https://www.riogrande.com/product/.999-fine-silver-5.61mm-heavy-wall-tubing-soft-12-length/100832GP/?code=100832

[JBL]

@Nick90  If you are planning to crimp the silver tubing to the wire like I did, you will need some crimpers like these. 

 

https://www.amazon.com/Channellock-909-Crimping-Tool-Cutter/dp/B00004SBDI/ref=sr_1_1?crid=B0X1N25QPT69&keywords=channellock+crimper&qid=1660612889&sprefix=channel+lock+crimper%2Caps%2C142&sr=8-1

 

Also metal tube cutter and reamer to cut the tubing and remove the burr from the tube.

 

https://www.amazon.com/Libraton-Tubing-Deburring-Aluminum-Stainless/dp/B09J2JY1Q6/ref=sr_1_5?crid=15R3J2ACOKLJ&keywords=copper+cutter&qid=1660612912&sprefix=copper+cutt%2Caps%2C150&sr=8-5

 

https://www.amazon.com/AFA-Tooling-Deburring-High-Speed-Countersink/dp/B08DCMJNWY/ref=sr_1_9?keywords=deburring%2Btool&qid=1660613559&sprefix=deburring%2Caps%2C186&sr=8-9&th=1

[Nick90]

On 8/16/2022 at 3:40 AM, JBL said:

@Nick90  If you are planning to crimp the silver tubing to the wire like I did, you will need some crimpers like these. 

 

https://www.amazon.com/Channellock-909-Crimping-Tool-Cutter/dp/B00004SBDI/ref=sr_1_1?crid=B0X1N25QPT69&keywords=channellock+crimper&qid=1660612889&sprefix=channel+lock+crimper%2Caps%2C142&sr=8-1

 

Also metal tube cutter and reamer to cut the tubing and remove the burr from the tube.

 

https://www.amazon.com/Libraton-Tubing-Deburring-Aluminum-Stainless/dp/B09J2JY1Q6/ref=sr_1_5?crid=15R3J2ACOKLJ&keywords=copper+cutter&qid=1660612912&sprefix=copper+cutt%2Caps%2C150&sr=8-5

 

https://www.amazon.com/AFA-Tooling-Deburring-High-Speed-Countersink/dp/B08DCMJNWY/ref=sr_1_9?keywords=deburring%2Btool&qid=1660613559&sprefix=deburring%2Caps%2C186&sr=8-9&th=1

Many thanks for the additional information. Can’t wait to build and listen!

[JBL]

Your welcome.  Let me know if have any other questions or issues during the build. 

 

Would be great to hear how this version works out for you. 

[AudioBang]

On 6/9/2017 at 11:17 PM, JohnSwenson said:

I'm staying away from AC power cables. The shielding technique is universal, but whether it makes any difference on a AC mains cable I have no idea, I'm not going to make any guesses, and I'm probably not going to be doing any testing any time soon.

 

Now that that is out of the way, the power cord that makes the most sense to me is the VH Audio flavor 4. I don't have any, no experience, no tests, just based on my current thinking about cables this is the closest to what I would build myself.

 

John S.

Inspired having just reading this topic, I reconfigured my (12) DIY AC power cords yesterday by opening the shield grounded at the wall plug and connecting an 18AWG wire external to each end of the [now] floating shield.

The results were positive in all categories from bass weight and definition just hearing more information everywhere.

One category is how out-of-phase sound staging information is rendered with additional clarity, weight and specificity.

One recording I use is Led Zeppelin's remastered "Since I've Been Loving You" where the kick drum comes out the phantom center channel and the rest of the kit is spaced out of phase to the right from 0 to ~45 degrees. The weight of the kick drum as well as its timbre is easily more discernible.

 

My cables are Furutech 12AWG FPS3032N cable [unfortunately not-Star Quad] mated to Cardas E5 connectors with shielded shells.

 

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