Audirvana Plus 3 (official thread)

[Indydan]

34 minutes ago, audiocanyon said:

 

If you replaced the Sierra IOAudioFamily.kext file with the El Capitan  IOAudioFamily.kext file, I'm not sure why your integer mode choices disappear.  The Mode 1 and Mode 2 choices are still available to me on Sierra after doing the file replacement.  I prefer Mode 1 on my system.

I did not change the kext file. I was hoping to not have to do that.

[RunHomeSlow]

9 hours ago, Indydan said:

 

I just updated my main iMac to Sierra (not the Mac I use for music) and I have been trying Audirvana on it. When I disable direct mode, the option of Mode 1 and Mode 2 for integer mode disappears. The integer mode box is still checked, but the option for mode 1 or mode 2 is gone. 

 

I am not sure what this means... 

 

On my Mac mini for music, running Yosemite, I have direct mode enabled as well as integer mode. I listened to both mode 1 and mode 2 in integer mode. I prefer mode 2. 

 

Have you plugged the DAC into that MAC ?

[Indydan]

19 minutes ago, RunHomeSlow said:

 

Have you plugged the DAC into that MAC ?

No, I was justing testing it functionnaly, not for sound.  But, when I leave direct mode on, integer mode still offers modes 1 and 2 (but Audirvana won't play with direct mode on). If I uncheck the direct mode box, the choice of modes 1 and 2 for integer mode disappears.

 

With direct mode off, Integer mode seems to still be available, but locked into default mode (mode 1?).

[RunHomeSlow]

1 minute ago, Indydan said:

No, I was justing testing it functionnaly, not for sound.  But, when I leave direct mode on, integer mode still offers modes 1 and 2 (but Audirvana won't play with direct mode on). If I uncheck the direct mode box, the choice of modes 1 and 2 for integer mode disappears.

 

With direct mode off, Integer mode seems to still be available, but locked into default mode (mode 1?).

 

 that is why i wrote that before... maybe integer options need the DAC plugged in to show the choices?? just a thought

[Daudio]

10 hours ago, Indydan said:

... When I disable direct mode, the option of Mode 1 and Mode 2 for integer mode disappears. The integer mode box is still checked, but the option for mode 1 or mode 2 is gone. 

 

I am not sure what this means...

I get the same results as you, running A+ 2.5.4, on OS X Mavericks, with DAC connected. Figured I'd turn off Direct Mode, since it seemed unnecessary, but the changes in the A+ Preference panel were disconcerting ! This doesn't make any sense to me given the background of the two modes.

 

I hope Damian will chime in and explain what this means. That is, if he isn't hiding in a cave after the onslaught of negative comments on the license 'phone home' behavior (I'm not a fan either) 

[Jud]

14 hours ago, Jud said:

The story on direct mode as far as I understand:

 

- Direct mode was developed when Apple broke integer mode back in (IIRC) the Lion days.  It is no longer necessary for integer mode.

 

- It is essentially a driver, one that is even more stripped-down than Apple's own, which some people think contributes to better sound.

 

- Drivers interface with the kernel.  As of El Capitan and forward, Apple's System Integrity Protection (SIP) won't allow installation of such drivers without specific Apple permission, which Apple has not granted.  Damien has requested here several times for people to ask Apple (respectfully) to give permission for the Direct Mode driver in Audirvana Plus to be installed on MacOS, and he has also asked himself as a developer, but so far permission has not been forthcoming.

 

- There is a workaround to allow the installation, which is to patch the kernel, but people should not do this unless they understand the steps very precisely, have a printed copy of the instructions to hand, and have an up-to-date backup ready to install if something goes wrong.  This is not meant to scare people but to try to ensure against complaints of "I did just about what I thought you said and now my computer doesn't work!" from people who don't take these simple precautions.

 

12 hours ago, Indydan said:

Thanks for the information. I'll most likely update to Sierra (from Yosemite) since I know I won't be losing sound quality because of no direct mode. 

 

 

 

I am among the "some people" who think Direct Mode contributes to better sound.

[Jud]

10 minutes ago, Daudio said:

I get the same results as you, running A+ 2.5.4, on OS X Mavericks, with DAC connected. Figured I'd turn off Direct Mode, since it seemed unnecessary, but the changes in the A+ Preference panel were disconcerting ! This doesn't make any sense to me given the background of the two modes.

 

I hope Damian will chime in and explain what this means. That is, if he isn't hiding in a cave after the onslaught of negative comments on the license 'phone home' behavior (I'm not a fan either) 

 

I haven't run Audirvana with Direct Mode disabled, because I've listened both ways and preferred use of Direct Mode.  But it seems reasonably evident to me that only one of the Integer Modes will work without the Direct Mode driver, so no reason to provide a (non-)choice.

[Jud]

1 hour ago, Indydan said:

I did not change the kext file. I was hoping to not have to do that.

 

That (patching the kernel by changing the kext file), as I explained above, is the only way to have Direct Mode in El Capitan and succeeding MacOSes, unless and until Apple permits use of Direct Mode.  Once again I reiterate Damien's request that those who like Direct Mode respectfully ask Apple to allow this.

[pl_svn]

2 minutes ago, Jud said:

But it seems reasonably evident to me that only one of the Integer Modes will work without the Direct Mode driver, so no reason to provide a (non-)choice.

 

... which raises the question... mode 1 or 2? 

[Jud]

Just now, pl_svn said:

 

... which raises the question... mode 1 or 2? 

 

Not sure myself.  I've always run with Direct Mode and Integer Mode 1, though others have different preferences.

[pl_svn]

same here: my Mac mini is still on 10.11.6 and staying there (at least so I have choices  )

[Daudio]

4 minutes ago, Jud said:

 

... it seems reasonably evident to me that only one of the Integer Modes will work without the Direct Mode driver...

 

We are all happy that it is so reasonably evident to you, but I still do not have a clue as to why you believe that, or why it actually is.

[wwaldmanfan]

13 minutes ago, Daudio said:

I get the same results as you, running A+ 2.5.4, on OS X Mavericks, with DAC connected. Figured I'd turn off Direct Mode, since it seemed unnecessary, but the changes in the A+ Preference panel were disconcerting ! This doesn't make any sense to me given the background of the two modes.

 

Disconcerting or not, this is the way it has always worked. What matters to me is how the software sounds, not what it says in the preferences. After critical listening, on my main system I prefer Mavericks with v2.6.8, direct mode + integer mode 1.

V.3.0.5 sounds too harsh through my B&W's. Turning off integer mode mellows it a little, but v2.6.8 still sounds more natural. However, on my desktop/headphone rig v.3.0.5 sounds wonderful.

[Daudio]

25 minutes ago, wwaldmanfan said:

Disconcerting or not, this is the way it has always worked.

 

I generally try to avoid posting on CA, other then in my Blog (suspended till fixed), and when I break that 'rule', as I did a few minutes back to try and understand some odd s/w behavior, I almost invariably regret it. As I do now, for your thoughtless reply.

[Jud]

36 minutes ago, Daudio said:

 

We are all happy that it is so reasonably evident to you, but I still do not have a clue as to why you believe that, or why it actually is.

 

Why I would believe that is because when the preferences gray out choices that were available in response to something you do, I tend to think that's because what you did means only one of the former alternatives is available, thus no choice.

 

I don't know whether that's how it actually is or not, but that's what I would take from it.

[wwaldmanfan]

14 minutes ago, Daudio said:

 

I generally try to avoid posting on CA, other then in my Blog (suspended till fixed), and when I break that 'rule', as I did a few minutes back to try and understand some odd s/w behavior, I almost invariably regret it. As I do now, for your thoughtless reply.

 

I know you don't like me, but my post was not meant as a personal affront to you. I apologize if I insulted you.

My view is that this is the way the software was written, and I don't agonize about why it was written that way, only the result. Others here like to fret about minutiae, I just try to enjoy music.

[Daudio]

1 minute ago, Jud said:

 

Why I would believe that is because...

 

I don't know whether that's how it actually is or not, but that's what I would take from it.

 

Ah, I see. But I view it a little differently. As a programmer in a previous life, I know how interface elements are bullt and linked to other parts of the program, and I 'm not anywhere near as sanguine that what shows to the user has any clear relationship to the core algorithms at the base of A+ (among others). Coding is complex, not always well understood, labeled, or 'edited'. It can be messy (witness JRiver, poster boy for bad code), and unclear, and not necessarily a good guide to the inards of the 'black box'.

Plus, this behavior seems to break the modality of the two seperate features...

 

The question remains open. 

 

(Damain ? come back, we forgive you !)

[Daudio]

23 minutes ago, wwaldmanfan said:

 

I know you don't like me...

 

... Others here like to fret about minutiae, I just try to enjoy music.

 

No, I don't dislike you, through i may have objected to some of your postings, as here. I judge behavior, not the man.

 

It's fine that you focus on the sound, I do too in turn, but in this case I had another, objective, equally valid, as you can see in my reply to Jud.

 

 

FYI - Creative people loath being told "That's Just The Way It Is" 

[audiocanyon]

3 hours ago, Jud said:

 

Not sure myself.  I've always run with Direct Mode and Integer Mode 1, though others have different preferences.

 

I've tried both and prefer integer mode 1.  Integer mode sounded cleaner but a little naked on my system.

[audiocanyon]

19 hours ago, audiocanyon said:

 

I've tried both and prefer integer mode 1.  Integer mode sounded cleaner but a little naked on my system.

 

That is integer mode 2 sounded cleaner but a little naked...

[Jud]

5 minutes ago, audiocanyon said:

 

That is integer mode 2 sounded cleaner but a little naked...

 

You're sure it wasn't naked but a little cleaner?

[Rezseeker]

My streamer's a mac mini whose OS I haven't upgraded from El Capitan because, like Jud, I hear a positive influence from Direct Mode on my SQ.

I just launched an old version of Audirvana 2.5.2  on my iMac running Sierra - Direct Mode, along with both Integer Modes are available. I hadn't noticed before because I don't normally use this iMac for quality playback and it's not attached to a DAC.

Anybody have an idea why Direct/Integer modes are available? I have never replaced the kext files with those from an older OS.

 

[RunHomeSlow]

12 minutes ago, Rezseeker said:

My streamer's a mac mini whose OS I haven't upgraded from El Capitan because, like Jud, I hear a positive influence from Direct Mode on my SQ.

I just launched an old version of Audirvana 2.5.2  on my iMac running Sierra - Direct Mode, along with both Integer Modes are available. I hadn't noticed before because I don't normally use this iMac for quality playback and it's not attached to a DAC.

Anybody have an idea why Direct/Integer modes are available? I have never replaced the kext files with those from an older OS.

 

 

Try to play a song...

[skatbelt]

On 4/18/2017 at 8:05 PM, audiocanyon said:

 

I've tried both and prefer integer mode 1.  Integer mode sounded cleaner but a little naked on my system.

 

I prefer mode 2. Mode 1 is a little too hot in my system, especially the higher frequencies. Attractive at first but a bit fatiguing (and actually less life-like) after a longer contemplation. This is consistent in all versions of A+ in let's say the last two years or so.

[Rezseeker]

6 hours ago, RunHomeSlow said:

 

Try to play a song...

Ah! Thanks! Your 5 simple words led me to the failure everyone's talked about.