win32pro Posted April 13, 2017 Share Posted April 13, 2017 55 minutes ago, pl_svn said: can't you instead, on first install, do the online check and tie the license to some machine's ID (serial # or any other available)? as others have already said... sure: most are using a shared computer which connects to the internet regularly but... what about those who use a dedicated machine not connected to anything else than *local* network? (... if connected at all to anything apart a USB HD and a DAC!) My problems with the new scheme are as follows: 1. This essentially treats me as if I haven't paid for all versions I've used (and I have). 2. Assumes I will always have an internet connection (and the check may happen right at the beginning of the summer vacation, thus denying me the ability to listen to my music for the entirety of the vacation). 3. Dictates me what I should and should not have in terms of network connectivity. I do have a dedicated computer that does nothing else but plays the music. I love the sound, I truly do. But this is the kind of thing which may push me to look elsewhere. People who buy this kind of software are those who actually care. This is a very niche market, where people are ready and willing to pay the money for quality and convenience. I'm on the verge of abandoning the Audirvana altogether at this point. It is not what I want to do, but this kind of restriction is something I'm unwilling to live with. Sonic77 1 Link to comment
miguelito Posted April 13, 2017 Share Posted April 13, 2017 12 minutes ago, win32pro said: People who buy this kind of software are those who actually care. This is a very niche market, where people are ready and willing to pay the money for quality and convenience. I'm on the verge of abandoning the Audirvana altogether at this point. It is not what I want to do, but this kind of restriction is something I'm unwilling to live with. +1 NUC10i7 + Roon ROCK > dCS Rossini APEX DAC + dCS Rossini Master Clock SME 20/3 + SME V + Dynavector XV-1s or ANUK IO Gold > vdH The Grail or Kondo KSL-SFz + ANK L3 Phono Audio Note Kondo Ongaku > Avantgarde Duo Mezzo Signal cables: Kondo Silver, Crystal Cable phono Power cables: Kondo, Shunyata, van den Hul system pics Link to comment
Popular Post Jud Posted April 13, 2017 Popular Post Share Posted April 13, 2017 For those of you who mind an application or OS checking with a server: - Do you use any computer for anything other than listening to music? - What OS and (main) apps do you use? I am pretty sure you will find that a great many of your OSs and apps are doing this. Krutsch, Giacomino and iEdwin 3 One never knows, do one? - Fats Waller The fairest thing we can experience is the mysterious. It is the fundamental emotion which stands at the cradle of true art and true science. - Einstein Computer, Audirvana -> optical Ethernet to Fitlet3 -> Fibbr Alpha Optical USB -> iFi NEO iDSD DAC -> Apollon Audio 1ET400A Mini (Purifi based) -> Vandersteen 3A Signature. Link to comment
watercourse Posted April 13, 2017 Share Posted April 13, 2017 12 minutes ago, Jud said: For those of you who mind an application or OS checking with a server: - Do you use any computer for anything other than listening to music? - What OS and (main) apps do you use? I am pretty sure you will find that a great many of your OSs and apps are doing this. On my dual boot Mini, the SD card is only for music... I'm actually keeping it on a closed local network, using wifi only for A+ remote. The SSD boot side can be considered the multipurpose side, but the entire machine is getting long in the tooth and better as a dedicated music maker. I'd rather not have the reminders even from Apple that I need to update my OS when I want to stay on Yosemite. Late 2012 Mac Mini > Audirvana+3 > iFi Zen Stream > Heimdall 2 USB > iFi iDSD Micro BL > Pass Labs INT-30A > DeVore The Nines! + REL Strata III Well-Tempered Amadeus Benz ACE SL > Pass Labs XOno "Water is the most critical resource issue of our lifetime and our children's lifetime. The health of our waters is the principal measure of how we live on the land." - Luna Leopold Link to comment
Jud Posted April 13, 2017 Share Posted April 13, 2017 30 minutes ago, watercourse said: On my dual boot Mini, the SD card is only for music... I'm actually keeping it on a closed local network, using wifi only for A+ remote. The SSD boot side can be considered the multipurpose side, but the entire machine is getting long in the tooth and better as a dedicated music maker. I'd rather not have the reminders even from Apple that I need to update my OS when I want to stay on Yosemite. I have one of those (long in the tooth Apple computers) myself. It's on El Cap (too old to work with Sierra), and I connect it for a few purposes I can think of offhand, other than A+ licensing/updates - (1) OS and app updates, especially security-related; (2) uploading backups of new music to cloud storage (Amazon Cloud Drive: easy, inexpensive, and even if my house burned down - perish the thought - my ripped and downloaded music would all be safe); and (3) occasional browsing and email. One never knows, do one? - Fats Waller The fairest thing we can experience is the mysterious. It is the fundamental emotion which stands at the cradle of true art and true science. - Einstein Computer, Audirvana -> optical Ethernet to Fitlet3 -> Fibbr Alpha Optical USB -> iFi NEO iDSD DAC -> Apollon Audio 1ET400A Mini (Purifi based) -> Vandersteen 3A Signature. Link to comment
Innocent Bystander Posted April 13, 2017 Share Posted April 13, 2017 1 hour ago, Jud said: For those of you who mind an application or OS checking with a server: - Do you use any computer for anything other than listening to music? - What OS and (main) apps do you use? I am pretty sure you will find that a great many of your OSs and apps are doing this. I use a Mac Mini normally dedicated to playing music from my home store - it sits there just like any other part of my hifi system - that minimises any possible interference with sound quality. The only exceptions when I am not playing music, occasionally for music making/recording, and very occasionally for video playing, and for audio diagnostics with REW. Most of the time it is not connected to the internet. If I download music, that is to another computer then transferred to the MM. Occasionally having to 'check in', say monthly, doesn't worry me, but as I mentioned in my first post on this aspect, what is a concern is what happens to my hifi system when Damien one day decides he's had enough of this lark, or our whinging, or something worse - I expect it to sit there, stable, working indefinitely. Mac Mini - late 2012: core i5/2.5GHz/16GB/2x1TB SSDs/El Capitan, headless - Audirvana optimised, dedicated USB bus - USB Regen - Chord Dave DAC - tri-amped with Bryston amps - PMC/ATC speaker combo. (Detail in my profile.) Link to comment
wwaldmanfan Posted April 13, 2017 Share Posted April 13, 2017 2 minutes ago, Innocent Bystander said: Occasionally having to 'check in', say monthly, doesn't worry me, but as I mentioned in my first post on this aspect, what is a concern is what happens to my hifi system when Damien one day decides he's had enough of this lark, or our whinging, or something worse - I expect it to sit there, stable, working indefinitely. Good point. If the unwarranted backlash here becomes too obnoxious, he might well decide to walk away. After all, as we know, developing Audirvana is not his day job. Regardless, the world would not come to an end. Worst case, you could always revert back to version 2.6, which everyone was perfectly happy with way, way back in the good ol' days (a few weeks ago). Link to comment
Innocent Bystander Posted April 13, 2017 Share Posted April 13, 2017 I havent budged from 2.6 as at the moment V3 seems too buggy, going by everything on both this thread and the A+ site forum, and I have no interest whatsoever in using MPA, so until Damien has time to fix the library issues as well, adding browsing by folder/file structure I'm staying put. Though that is only until I find something better because of the library problems: sooner or later someone else will produce another renderer app achieving the same excellent sound qualit but with a good library facility that can work other ways than just having perfect metadata. Mac Mini - late 2012: core i5/2.5GHz/16GB/2x1TB SSDs/El Capitan, headless - Audirvana optimised, dedicated USB bus - USB Regen - Chord Dave DAC - tri-amped with Bryston amps - PMC/ATC speaker combo. (Detail in my profile.) Link to comment
watercourse Posted April 13, 2017 Share Posted April 13, 2017 I'm quite happy with the sound quality of V3, and have no real issues with the library. However, I'm trying to keep my computer audio setup from requiring internet connection, as I am not very interested in streaming right now, nor in MQA. My entire library is local, and I'd like to keep it that way. K.I.S.S. Daudio 1 Late 2012 Mac Mini > Audirvana+3 > iFi Zen Stream > Heimdall 2 USB > iFi iDSD Micro BL > Pass Labs INT-30A > DeVore The Nines! + REL Strata III Well-Tempered Amadeus Benz ACE SL > Pass Labs XOno "Water is the most critical resource issue of our lifetime and our children's lifetime. The health of our waters is the principal measure of how we live on the land." - Luna Leopold Link to comment
Jud Posted April 13, 2017 Share Posted April 13, 2017 37 minutes ago, Innocent Bystander said: Occasionally having to 'check in', say monthly, doesn't worry me, but as I mentioned in my first post on this aspect, what is a concern is what happens to my hifi system when Damien one day decides he's had enough of this lark, or our whinging, or something worse - I expect it to sit there, stable, working indefinitely. Yes, understandable. If Damien at some point decided to give this up (which I would be very sorry to see happen!), he would presumably not be bothered by A+ installations continuing to work after that, so perhaps he could turn off the checking then? One never knows, do one? - Fats Waller The fairest thing we can experience is the mysterious. It is the fundamental emotion which stands at the cradle of true art and true science. - Einstein Computer, Audirvana -> optical Ethernet to Fitlet3 -> Fibbr Alpha Optical USB -> iFi NEO iDSD DAC -> Apollon Audio 1ET400A Mini (Purifi based) -> Vandersteen 3A Signature. Link to comment
win32pro Posted April 13, 2017 Share Posted April 13, 2017 1 hour ago, Jud said: For those of you who mind an application or OS checking with a server: - Do you use any computer for anything other than listening to music? - What OS and (main) apps do you use? I am pretty sure you will find that a great many of your OSs and apps are doing this. Only plays the music. The OS and Audirvana Plus in there. So, no. Plus, if anything does, it gets thrown out of any of my computers. Link to comment
Jud Posted April 13, 2017 Share Posted April 13, 2017 8 minutes ago, watercourse said: I'm quite happy with the sound quality of V3, and have no real issues with the library. However, I'm trying to keep my computer audio setup from requiring internet connection, as I am not very interested in streaming right now, nor in MQA. My entire library is local, and I'd like to keep it that way. K.I.S.S. Wondering if there is a way for folks who have a setup like yours or similar (in other words, the music computer is seldom if ever connected to the internet) to present the server's query and the music computer's response through an "intermediary," like an SD card or another computer on the home network? One never knows, do one? - Fats Waller The fairest thing we can experience is the mysterious. It is the fundamental emotion which stands at the cradle of true art and true science. - Einstein Computer, Audirvana -> optical Ethernet to Fitlet3 -> Fibbr Alpha Optical USB -> iFi NEO iDSD DAC -> Apollon Audio 1ET400A Mini (Purifi based) -> Vandersteen 3A Signature. Link to comment
Jud Posted April 13, 2017 Share Posted April 13, 2017 10 minutes ago, win32pro said: Plus, if anything does, it gets thrown out of any of my computers. So you do no security updates and leave your system vulnerable? One never knows, do one? - Fats Waller The fairest thing we can experience is the mysterious. It is the fundamental emotion which stands at the cradle of true art and true science. - Einstein Computer, Audirvana -> optical Ethernet to Fitlet3 -> Fibbr Alpha Optical USB -> iFi NEO iDSD DAC -> Apollon Audio 1ET400A Mini (Purifi based) -> Vandersteen 3A Signature. Link to comment
win32pro Posted April 13, 2017 Share Posted April 13, 2017 17 minutes ago, Jud said: So you do no security updates and leave your system vulnerable? If I do security updates, I'll break direct mode. And vulnerable to what? If I don't connect a machine to the internet, the attack vector is minimal. Plus, even if I did put security updates, those come out every few months, and I can use combo updates, thus keeping my machine off the internet, if I wanted. And like I said, the Audirvana check might come smack at the beginning of my vacation, thus depriving me of my music. Who thought that was a bright idea? Daudio 1 Link to comment
watercourse Posted April 13, 2017 Share Posted April 13, 2017 13 minutes ago, Jud said: Wondering if there is a way for folks who have a setup like yours or similar (in other words, the music computer is seldom if ever connected to the internet) to present the server's query and the music computer's response through an "intermediary," like an SD card or another computer on the home network? Hi Jud, I appreciate your trying to navigate us towards workable solutions! Just to clarify, I do have my computer currently online - I would just like to take steps to make everything more secure/local. In the past, I had entertained using a microRendu, SMS-200 or the like, but with the combo of A+ V3's improved sound quality, and the UpTone LPS-1 powering the Regen, I'm not sure the possible incremental increase in SQ from an ethernet renderer is my next step, if I must maintain internet access. Instead, I would focus on improving the PSU quality in my Mini and keep it within my local network. This means the SD card is probably my go-to solution paired with UpTone's DC conversion kit, and possibly another LPS-1. Late 2012 Mac Mini > Audirvana+3 > iFi Zen Stream > Heimdall 2 USB > iFi iDSD Micro BL > Pass Labs INT-30A > DeVore The Nines! + REL Strata III Well-Tempered Amadeus Benz ACE SL > Pass Labs XOno "Water is the most critical resource issue of our lifetime and our children's lifetime. The health of our waters is the principal measure of how we live on the land." - Luna Leopold Link to comment
Jud Posted April 13, 2017 Share Posted April 13, 2017 19 minutes ago, win32pro said: If I do security updates, I'll break direct mode. And vulnerable to what? If I don't connect a machine to the internet, the attack vector is minimal. Plus, even if I did put security updates, those come out every few months, and I can use combo updates, thus keeping my machine off the internet, if I wanted. And like I said, the Audirvana check might come smack at the beginning of my vacation, thus depriving me of my music. Who thought that was a bright idea? I wasn't referring to your music computer. You said if any apps or OSs on any of your computers did the client-server contact you'd get rid of them, unless I misunderstood you. One never knows, do one? - Fats Waller The fairest thing we can experience is the mysterious. It is the fundamental emotion which stands at the cradle of true art and true science. - Einstein Computer, Audirvana -> optical Ethernet to Fitlet3 -> Fibbr Alpha Optical USB -> iFi NEO iDSD DAC -> Apollon Audio 1ET400A Mini (Purifi based) -> Vandersteen 3A Signature. Link to comment
audiocanyon Posted April 13, 2017 Share Posted April 13, 2017 6 hours ago, damien78 said: There is no impact on the user except the need to be connected to the Internet at least once every 15 days when launching Audirvana Plus. For those who fear to not have an Internet access for long period of travel, is it for more than 15 days not connected at all? Would you prefer a whole month? Audirvana Plus connects to audirvana.com for only two purposes: 1. To check the license 2. To check and download updates BTW, you connect your Mac for so many other purposes (checking email, going on the web, including here on CA, …), sending audio data to a network player, … My mac-mini is dedicated to my audio system and basically just connected to my internal network so i can use my remote. The architectural software I use to design passive solar homes performs a check once every 30 days. If it checks and I'm not on-line, it gives me a message that I need to connect to the internet within the next 30 days to continue using the software. I can usually do that pretty easily. It's a tough call, I love the SQ in V3 but I don't like the feeling of being watched (I'm one of those odd balls that doesn't use google mail or facebook). On the other hand I'm sure you have your reasons for doing the periodic license check. If you can make the results of not being connected less abrupt, I'm sure many of us would appreciate it. Jud 1 2012 Mac Mini, Mac Sierra OS, Audirvana 3.x, WireWorld Ultraviolet 7 USB Interconnect, Benchmark DAC2 L, Wireworld Equinox 7 Balanced XLR Interconnect, Belles 350A Amp, DIY Speaker Cables (18 strands of 22awg wire in circular array), DIY Carver Ribbon Speakers & Dayton Woofers Link to comment
win32pro Posted April 13, 2017 Share Posted April 13, 2017 19 minutes ago, Jud said: I wasn't referring to your music computer. You said if any apps or OSs on any of your computers did the client-server contact you'd get rid of them, unless I misunderstood you. I think it was my misunderstanding. I have a general policy of a tight control of what software goes where and why. Any piece of software that refuses to function without an internet connection gets removed. And it doesn't matter why or how often. Software updates are a manual process for me. I decide what and when gets updated or even checks for an update. On a music computer - due to the OS/Audirvana conflicts and effects on sound quality, the OS doesn't get updated often. In addition to that, I would like to be able to take my computer to my vacation, where there might not be any internet connection, and still to be able to enjoy my music throughout the entire time off. Link to comment
Jud Posted April 13, 2017 Share Posted April 13, 2017 1 hour ago, win32pro said: Any piece of software that refuses to function without an internet connection gets removed. And it doesn't matter why or how often. It's this piece I have difficulty understanding. Every OS I know of provides a server with information so the server knows what updates to suggest. (I, like you, control whether and when updates occur.) With MS and Apple at least, if you think there is no check to see if you're running a licensed version, think again. Gonzbull 1 One never knows, do one? - Fats Waller The fairest thing we can experience is the mysterious. It is the fundamental emotion which stands at the cradle of true art and true science. - Einstein Computer, Audirvana -> optical Ethernet to Fitlet3 -> Fibbr Alpha Optical USB -> iFi NEO iDSD DAC -> Apollon Audio 1ET400A Mini (Purifi based) -> Vandersteen 3A Signature. Link to comment
win32pro Posted April 13, 2017 Share Posted April 13, 2017 8 minutes ago, Jud said: It's this piece I have difficulty understanding. Every OS I know of provides a server with information so the server knows what updates to suggest. (I, like you, control whether and when updates occur.) With MS and Apple at least, if you think there is no check to see if you're running a licensed version, think again. I don't have to think again. The macOS will survive for years without an internet connection. So will Windows. They will continue to function just fine. And for the macOS - there is no check to see you are running licensed version. The hardware takes care of that. For Windows, once it is activated, you are off the hook as well. Plus, in many corporations, all such ports are simply blocked, and OS is simply unable to get patches from the OS vendor, be it Apple or Microsoft. The respective corporate IT departments push vetted updates to the machines. Putting an update yourself may cause you problems. So, no, sorry. The OS does not require a successful license check in order to continue functioning. I'm not even touching Linux here. Daudio 1 Link to comment
Popular Post jtm Posted April 13, 2017 Popular Post Share Posted April 13, 2017 Jud, I do appreciate your position as an advocate for Audirvana, however I feel you might need to consider that other people do not feel happy with software which monitors users behaviour or activities. Call me an old fart, but I do not use facebook, whats app and rubbish like that, and I listen to my music on an old 2011 MacBook Pro with Mavericks 10.9.5, within an isolated home network on fiber dedicated to music playback, with some NAS and FireWire storage attached to it. My local iPad acts as a remote and controls the player, my Hue lights, etc, and there is absolutely NO need at all why I should connect all of this to the WWW. Remember the old days: never change a running system. Why should I, there is no threat as nothing is connected to the WWW advertising machine. I bought the CDs, the downloads, the software, the hardware, and I simply do not like anyone to watch me, listen to me or give me pressure to buy and update stuff when I want to enjoy my music. And this is why possibly I will not use Audirvana anymore soon, nor any popular spyware like Siri, Alexa, Cortana ... Btw ... Vinyl is great - no updates, no DRM, no advertising ... Daudio and pl_svn 2 Link to comment
Gonzbull Posted April 13, 2017 Share Posted April 13, 2017 I guess I'm in the camp that is not too bothered by the licensing issue. My computers are always connected to the internet and I keep updated all the software I use. In this day and age it is harder to operate a computer without internet access. The majority of my use involves the internet. Even my Studio machine is connected to download client files and audio plugins and receive software/firmware updates for the gear amongst other things. I doubt the the majority of A+ users would care about this. Maybe extending the 2week period might appease some. At the end of the day it's a $100 piece of software that's doing its job brilliantly for me. I've spent way more on single plugins for the Studio. If the day comes that A+ dissapears I'll move on to the next best thing. Link to comment
jtm Posted April 13, 2017 Share Posted April 13, 2017 I am online with another Mac, another iPad, my iPhone, or other devices in our household. we keep them more or less updated, because they are meant to act as multi-functional communication devices. but we have our file-based audio system setup and optimized like in old days you would have done with your vinyl or CD based system. and it just works flawlessly and sounds great. don't be on the run all the times, slow down and listen to music. don't feed the machines and loose your lifetime for ...! Link to comment
RunHomeSlow Posted April 13, 2017 Share Posted April 13, 2017 24 minutes ago, Gonzbull said: I doubt the the majority of A+ users would care about this. Maybe extending the 2 weeks period might appease some. i agree, me too, my music machine is connected... use latest system and updates when I WANT :-) It just penalized the people who BOUGHT A+ and are running MAC as a music box and not as a computer for everyday things. They are many people on that forum that won't connect just to gain a .001 % of better quality. Maybe like me to have Direct Mode on for Sierra :-) People who pirated A+ or other softs, will continu to do it even with that policy... Pirates now always win... it is not like in USA movies :-) Cracked softwares are not like years ago with serial numbers passing from each others people or generated serial numbers, they have crack now applied to them so they continu working without internet... New photoshop is out... 2 days later it is cracked, simple as that, same with every soft that people want... Same with music... it is everywhere if you want to pirate, why you think so many people have like 5000 albums now!! SACD locked? now you have .ISO files. Same thing apply to Movies, it is everywhere... Anyway, glad that 3.0.5 is back with no bugs :-) If You Got Ears, You Gotta Listen – Captain Beefheart MacMini 2018, 4xi3 3.6GHz, SSD, 20Gb, macOS Sonoma > Audirvana Origin > Wyred DAC2 DSD Special Edition > Proceed AMP2 > Focal Cobalt 826 Signature Series > Audirvana Remote > iPhone 13 Link to comment
Veovis Posted April 13, 2017 Share Posted April 13, 2017 5 hours ago, Jud said: Yes, understandable. If Damien at some point decided to give this up (which I would be very sorry to see happen!), he would presumably not be bothered by A+ installations continuing to work after that, so perhaps he could turn off the checking then? Hard to understand why anyone apart from the developer himself so desperately is trying to defend such an intrusive anti-piracy scheme. Anyway, Your own question puts the spotlight on the problem. You don't buy the product. You pay and hope for the best after every 14 day period has passed. I'm sure the developer will get in touch with reality (in the sense of the general public's disregard for DRM) and realise his mistake eventually. Before then, no buy from me (and several others I'm sure). I for sure will advise everyone against buying because of this. As opposed from the talking people into upgrading from itunes that I've been doing up until now. Link to comment
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