Any experiences with RME ADI-2 Pro DAC?

[matthias]

Hi,

 

the new RME ADI-2 Pro ADC/DAC seems to get some good ratings on professional forums.

Do any members of CA have experiences with this DAC?

 

Thanks

 

Matt

[saintkrusher]

Looks great. I will have for few days on tests.

[Gonzbull]

Very keen to find out more too. It's definitely on my list for my next DAC.

[Samuel T Cogley]

I've been looking around for where to purchase one of these in the U.S. I haven't found anywhere to buy one yet. It looks like a real game changer.

[Miska]

Yes, I have it and I'm very happy with it. Here's a post I wrote about it in another thread:

http://www.computeraudiophile.com/f6-dac-digital-analog-conversion/recommend-analogue-digital-converter-live-recordings-or-digitizing-sound-stored-analogue-media-such-records-or-tape-31143/#post620596

[yamamoto2002]

I've using it for 3 weeks

 

Very clean and transparent sound, the same level or maybe better than Lynx Hilo.

 

User experience is very different from RME Fireface series, this device is much simpler, there is no microphone preamp, no TotalMix mixer, it has practically one line level stereo input and one stereo output and it works just ADC + DAC.

 

Some sort of IIR short delay sharp roll off antialiasing LPF is the factory default settings of DAC and if you like more conventional linear phase sharp roll off FIR filter you can change from the menu.

 

Interestingly, there is Preamp mode for audiophiles. On this mode, the device works without PC and it works as preamplifier that has one analog line level input, one analog line level output, bass and treble adjustment, loudness control, graphic equalizer and gain control. (not tested yet)

 

In Windows platform, 705.6kHz and 768kHz is available only via ASIO because according to the manual, WASAPI of current version Windows supports up to 384kHz. When device sample rate set to 705.6kHz or 768kHz, WASAPI endpoint device of ADI-2 Pro disappears from the audio rendering/capturing device list

 

It seems this device supports DoP DSD recording using WASAPI. I think this is very rare feature. Not testing it yet

[Cormorant]

I notice that this RME ADI-2 Pro uses TI Op-Amps in the output stage:

 

"Selected SoundPlus operational amplifiers maintain highest SNR, lowest THD and high slew rate under all conditions."

 

I don't know what model number of Op-Amp is used, but here is one possibility:

 

http://www.ti.com/lit/ds/symlink/opa1602.pdf

 

That device lists a slew rate of 20 V/uS. Which sucks.

 

Lynn Olson on slew rate here:

 

dsd

[Miska]

That device lists a slew rate of 20 V/uS. Which sucks.

 

Lynn Olson on slew rate here:

 

dsd

 

It is not that simple, because the D/A converter chip has internal analog filter for the output cutting at either 50 or 150 kHz...

 

20 V/µs is enough to slew the amp 3V at 150 kHz...

 

There's huge number of audio devices on the market that use NE5532 op-amps that have 9V/µs slew rate.

 

For analog filter applications what matters is the GBW (gain-bandwidth product).

[Miska]

User experience is very different from RME Fireface series, this device is much simpler, there is no microphone preamp, no TotalMix mixer, it has practically one line level stereo input and one stereo output and it works just ADC + DAC.

 

But it has features like dual-DAC chip balanced headphone amp mode. Headphone crossfeed, configurable Eq/notch filters and such.

 

Some sort of IIR short delay sharp roll off antialiasing LPF is the factory default settings of DAC and if you like more conventional linear phase sharp roll off FIR filter you can change from the menu.

 

I'm using mine configured to Direct DSD mode with 150 kHz analog filter (disables primary headphone output and volume control is disabled), sending DSD256 there. I didn't even try any PCM yet and I don't even care that much....

 

In Windows platform, 705.6kHz and 768kHz is available only via ASIO because according to the manual, WASAPI of current version Windows supports up to 384kHz. When device sample rate set to 705.6kHz or 768kHz, WASAPI endpoint device of ADI-2 Pro disappears from the audio rendering/capturing device list

 

It seems this device supports DoP DSD recording using WASAPI. I think this is very rare feature. Not testing it yet

 

Nice thing is that it works DSD256 with DoP, in and out on Linux, Mac and Windows without hassle...

 

It being a nice DAC was kind of positive surprise. I anyway purchased it for recording purposes!

[Cormorant]

There's huge number of audio devices on the market that use NE5532 op-amps that have 9V/µs slew rate.

 

That is unfortunate for audiophiles that have these low slew rate devices in their system. But it is particularly sad for me because they are in recording studios all across the world.

 

Personally, after some exposure, I wouldn't touch one of these low slew rate class AB op-amp based devices with a 10 foot pole. Well, ok, as a speaker measurement system they are fine. I also agree as recording devices they can be good.

[Miska]

That is unfortunate for audiophiles that have these low slew rate devices in their system. But it is particularly sad for me because they are in recording studios all across the world.

 

Personally, after some exposure, I wouldn't touch one of these low slew rate class AB op-amp based devices with a 10 foot pole. Well, ok, as a speaker measurement system they are fine. I also agree as recording devices they can be good.

 

Well, first of all you don't seem to know what is inside, you just made a guess. Can you somehow objectively demonstrate that there is a performance problem?

 

If my measurements and my ears both say that a device works well, then it is a good device to me, regardless what particular device is inside. Slew rate is just one of the many parameters and what parameters to look at always depends on the particular application.

 

But each to their own.

[bogi]

I looked at specs of this device carefully 2 months ago when one my friend asked me for opinion. My friend is big fan of high end headphones, but he also listens on professional active monitors.

 

This device is IMO very interesting, but I found some things which are not quite optimal. The headphone output and DSP (like crossfeed) is disabled in the direct DSD mode (DoP). I was very curious when I read that in the manual, considering that this device otherwise provides strong support for listening on headphones. Sadly only for PCM source signal. The second drawback is only DoP support (the so called native DSD mode is not supported). That's no real issue on DSD256 bitrate, but still one could await more. We know about possible troubles which can happen with DoP (transitions between tracks, PCM <-> DSD switching), native DSD is better solution.

 

On the other side, the A/D part of this device seems to be very interesting. It can be very suitable not only for recording, but also for doing measurements.

 

So ... for me this device seems to be very interesting and I trust all who write how good it sounds, but ... it looks like a little bit unfinished in the DSD part. It seems the designers are not big DSD fans, they did less than it could be done with the hardware.

[Miska]

This device is IMO very interesting, but I found some things which are not quite optimal. The headphone output and DSP (like crossfeed) is disabled in the direct DSD mode (DoP). I was very curious when I read that in the manual, considering that this device otherwise provides strong support for listening on headphones. Sadly only for PCM source signal.

 

Reason the primary headphone output is disabled when Direct DSD mode is enabled is that the volume control is the digital volume control on the AKM chip. The second headphone output is always active because it doesn't ever go into Direct DSD mode - it has it's own separate DAC chip.

 

Rest of the DSP (cross-feed, eq) is done on the FPGA and capabilities depend on the input sampling rate, there are some limitations for the 16x rates.

 

For me, this is not a problem, I can do necessary DSP on HQPlayer and I use external headphone amplifier. If one uses the DAC just for PCM inputs of normal downloads/streaming, then there are no limitations.

 

The second drawback is only DoP support (the so called native DSD mode is not supported). That's no real issue on DSD256 bitrate, but still one could await more. We know about possible troubles which can happen with DoP (transitions between tracks, PCM <-> DSD switching), native DSD is better solution.

 

They emphasize that they currently don't support native DSD on ASIO or on the device. So it may come with driver/firmware update. I already updated the firmware once...

 

On the other side, the A/D part of this device seems to be very interesting. It can be very suitable not only for recording, but also for doing measurements.

 

Yes, that's the main reason I got it. But of course I tried it first as a DAC and now it sits on my desk connected to my Linux workstation where I do most of the software development (currently two DACs on this one, the RME and iFi iDSD Micro Black Label). Fostex HP-A8C working as analog headphone amp for the RME.

 

So ... for me this device seems to be very interesting and I trust all who write how good it sounds, but ... it looks like a little bit unfinished in the DSD part. It seems the designers are not big DSD fans, they did less than it could be done with the hardware.

 

I don't get that kind of feeling. They just don't have the oomph on the FPGA to do DSP on DSD (without some PCM decimation). They still have digital level monitoring and such in there for DSD too. I'm happy that they provide the DAC chip functionality straight without obfuscating/obscuring it. And tell straight exactly what goes on, where and how. I really love the transparency and amount of information they provide. The manual is very good, with measurement results and all.

 

Note! This is their first DSD product, and I'd say that they have got a very good start!

[bogi]

Note! This is their first DSD product, and I'd say that they have got a very good start!

 

I agree! FW updates can bring yet some improvements.

I also like the clear way how the manual is written.

[One and a half]

I've been looking around for where to purchase one of these in the U.S. I haven't found anywhere to buy one yet. It looks like a real game changer.

 

There's an online shop from Holland, google rme shop.

Prices are shown for export in Euro, I've bought twice from them, good service.

[Panelhead]

I will wait for the multi-channel version. Definately is a RME interface for audiophiles. Most pro applications want mic pres and more than 2 channels.

It will interesting to see how well it sells to this market. Lots of good competition at around this price point.

[Miska]

I will wait for the multi-channel version. Definately is a RME interface for audiophiles. Most pro applications want mic pres and more than 2 channels.

 

Sure it is more audiophile and mastering-style device.

 

OTOH, their ADI-series has always been plain A/D/A converters without mic-pre's, because lot of studios have mic preamps either in their mixing console or use separate ones. For example the ADI-8 DS Mk III is also just plain converter. If you want to connect mixing console to multi-track recorder, then plain converter is more typical.

 

Then they have separate mic A/D's:

RME: Products - MIC Preamps

 

It will interesting to see how well it sells to this market. Lots of good competition at around this price point.

 

I'd be very happy to hear about all the other competition with 705.6/768k PCM and DSD256 recording. So far I haven't found other than Merging Hapi/Horus and even those don't reach such PCM speeds, only DXD.

[filhodoassis]

Hey Miska, which sofware is available for 705.6/768k PCM and DSD256 recording, with the ADI 2 Pro? For playback, native and upsampled files, I have a clue.

Do you tested PCM 768k vesus DSD256 recording, from say - a vinyl source, which has the best sound quality?

 

Just find this, Sound it! for ADI 2 Pro:

[Panelhead]

Or recited

I'd be very happy to hear about all the other competition with 705.6/768k PCM and DSD256 recording. So far I haven't found other than Merging Hapi/Horus and even those don't reach such PCM speeds, only DXD.

 

I stand corrected. This unit is unique in high sampling rates. Your software is a great match with a Dac with these capabilities.

Four channel output controlled by one knob is one my personal got to haves.

[Maldur]

Miska, how it sounds with AK4490 DAC chip? Vs. PCM1795 for example?

[saintkrusher]

Yes, the beast is come!!!! First impression with a HD800s is very good. Very deep, clean and impact sound. I think the sound is more energetic and fun than Mytek Brooklyn. Miska, what is your proposing settings to best quality sound in HQPlayer?

[Miska]

Miska, how it sounds with AK4490 DAC chip? Vs. PCM1795 for example?

 

When you run both with DSD256 the differences are smaller than with PCM. If I would generalize overall for PCM inputs, TI-BB/Wolfson chips sound a bit warmer and smoother, while AKM is a bit brighter, but not as bright as Sabre/Cirrus Logic. With DSD the differences become quite a bit smaller.

 

As always, full DACs have differences based on implementation of their analog stages too so it's a whole package that matters.

[Miska]

Miska, what is your proposing settings to best quality sound in HQPlayer?

 

If you use PCM input, just use the 705.6/768k input rate (and TPDF or Gauss1 dither) and your favorite filter. The digital filter selection at the DAC doesn't matter because at these rates it runs with the digital filter bypassed.

 

For DSD256 inputs, enable the Direct DSD mode and set the DSD analog filter to 150 kHz. Your choice of filter and modulator. I use poly-sinc-short-mp and ASDM7, but I know some people like DSD7. However, this will mute the PH1/2 output because volume control disappears. PH3/4 will remain active because the DAC chip driving it cannot be switched to Direct DSD mode. So you'll need an external headphone amplifier. I'm using Fostex HP-A8C for the purpose, but I'm planning to get a Schiit Ragnarok (I need more inputs than one analog set)...

[Miska]

I also wanted to comment a bit on the sound 16x PCM vs DSD256 inputs when listened in the specified setup with Sennheiser HD-800 headphones. When I switch to DSD256 the sound feels like moving more out of the head with more space around. With PCM the sound is more closed in. Both still sound very good, this was the biggest change I noticed when switching between the formats.

[Samuel T Cogley]

FWIW, I heard from a friend that Sweetwater can get these in the States as a "special order". $1,999.00