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Any experiences with RME ADI-2 Pro DAC?

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On 1/30/2019 at 2:24 AM, Em2016 said:

 

Nice, thanks.

Just to be clear, the ESS chips do not have to use the ASRC and a single rate XO for the DAC.  The manufacturer can choose how they use the chip.  For example, the Ayre DACs turn off the ASRC and use their own oversampling (in FPGA) and sync clock the DAC.  I do the same in my DIY (Twisted Pear PCB) based ESS 9038 DAC, (I oversample in software to DSD 256, and use a single XO in the DAC, sync clocking the ESS chip-this means a single XO in the DAC, which runs both the USB interface and the DAC chip).


ROON: DSD 256-Signature Rendu optical--Buffalo PRO or DSC-2--Ncore 400 Stereo-Focus Audio FS888-JL E-112 sub-Nordost Tyr USB, Cardas Clear AC, Iconoclast XLR, Nordost Frey speaker, cables, Synergistic Blue & Hi Fi Tuning Supreme Cu Fuses, Dark Matter system clarifiers.    Design/Build Consultant with Sonore

 

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3 hours ago, barrows said:

Just to be clear, the ESS chips do not have to use the ASRC and a single rate XO for the DAC.

 

Yes Jussi has mentioned some Myteks (not the newest ones) do this and the Pro-Ject S2 DAC also. 

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On 1/12/2017 at 8:33 PM, Miska said:

If you use PCM input, just use the 705.6/768k input rate (and TPDF or Gauss1 dither) and your favorite filter.

 

Hi Jussi, any technical reason you don't recommend NS5 here at 705/768k output rates?

 

Is it because at these PCM output rates specifically, there is very little difference in technical performance between TPDF, Gauss1 and NS5?

 

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3 hours ago, Em2016 said:

Hi Jussi, any technical reason you don't recommend NS5 here at 705/768k output rates?

 

Is it because at these PCM output rates specifically, there is very little difference in technical performance between TPDF, Gauss1 and NS5?

 

Since these new chips take in 32-bit data, digital noise floor is already so much below anything analog, that using noise shaping doesn't make any difference...

 

The on-chip DSP will then process the 32-bit input through it's modulator / noise-shaper, etc.

 


Signalyst - Developer of HQPlayer

Pulse & Fidelity - Software Defined Amplifiers

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On 1/25/2019 at 4:12 AM, Miska said:

 

They are already translated for you in the analog input section of the manual... ;)

 

image.thumb.png.e34849876a8bb24e07943325d105d8cc.png

 

So your conversion seems to match the RME's.

 

I'm using +13 dBu myself for consumer gear connections.

 

 

Hi @Miska, just to confirm, DSD Direct mode can be used with all XLR and RCA output gain settings of ADI-2 DAC?

 

Since all the gain settings are all done in the analogue domain ?

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7 minutes ago, Em2016 said:

Hi @Miska, just to confirm, DSD Direct mode can be used with all XLR and RCA output gain settings of ADI-2 DAC?

 

Since all the gain settings are all done in the analogue domain ?

 

Yes, that's the case AFAIK.

 


Signalyst - Developer of HQPlayer

Pulse & Fidelity - Software Defined Amplifiers

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Just now, Miska said:

 

Yes, that's the case AFAIK.

 

 

Thx.

 

The manual says: 

 

“In DSD Direct mode there is no PCM conversion – and consequently no volume control anymore. After having activated DSD Direct in the ADI-2 DAC’s menu (SETUP - Options), the analog signal is available only at the rear outputs, with a coarse volume control via the analog output reference level control.”

 

What does this bold mean, in practical terms? 

 

There is analogue volume control?

 

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1 minute ago, Em2016 said:

“In DSD Direct mode there is no PCM conversion – and consequently no volume control anymore. After having activated DSD Direct in the ADI-2 DAC’s menu (SETUP - Options), the analog signal is available only at the rear outputs, with a coarse volume control via the analog output reference level control.”

 

What does this bold mean, in practical terms? 

 

There is analogue volume control?

 

Yes, but only couple of steps, so I wouldn't call it "volume control" as such. Reason for the reference level control is just to provide means to match DAC's output level to input sensitivity of the following stage. Otherwise the preamp following the DAC could clip in worst case.


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Pulse & Fidelity - Software Defined Amplifiers

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7 hours ago, Miska said:

 

Yes, but only couple of steps, so I wouldn't call it "volume control" as such. Reason for the reference level control is just to provide means to match DAC's output level to input sensitivity of the following stage. Otherwise the preamp following the DAC could clip in worst case.

 

Thanks Jussi.

 

ADI-2 DAC supports both 1bit 11.2896 MHz and 12.288 MHz rates ?

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6 hours ago, Em2016 said:

 

Thanks Jussi.

 

ADI-2 DAC supports both 1bit 11.2896 MHz and 12.288 MHz rates ?

 

It's ok @Miska. Found it earlier in the thread, DoP256x48k is supported.

 

I went through this thread - did you share measurements of your ADI-2 somewhere?

 

 

 

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On 8/2/2019 at 12:25 AM, Em2016 said:

ADI-2 DAC supports both 1bit 11.2896 MHz and 12.288 MHz rates ?

 

Yes (well at least the Pro does, but DAC is essentially the same with some things stripped out).

 

On 8/2/2019 at 7:19 AM, Em2016 said:

I went through this thread - did you share measurements of your ADI-2 somewhere?

 

I did... Here are at ASR (my mistake).

 

On 8/2/2019 at 7:53 AM, Em2016 said:

PCM44.1k vs DSD256 input, if you have them

 

THD with 44.1k 32-bit input:

ADI2-thd-44k1-graph.thumb.png.74ee6f43455f0707a2dd419eac60675f.png

You can also see that the digital filter has about 100 dB stop-band attenuation due to image around 44.1k.

 

IMD with 44.1k 32-bit input:

ADI2-imd-44k1-graph.thumb.png.782091b4cd8c08374d9ce5680a71b7a3.png

Here you can also see images of the test tone above 22.05 kHz.

 

 

THD with DSD256 input:

ADI2-thd-dsd256-graph.thumb.png.1ac26023cf78005196b5b03ba436d97a.png

Noise floor is 3.5 dB higher because output level is 3.5 dB lower in DSD Direct mode (this is to allow DSD spec +3.15 dB short term over-modulations). At the same output level, noise floors match.

 

IMD with DSD256 input:

ADI2-imd-dsd256-graph.thumb.png.d0e0cffadd4a4f5eb7c76ab06288f93d.png

 

Wide band output spectrum of 0-22.05 kHz sweep at 44.1k input, digital filter set to "sharp":

ADI2-sweep-44k1-sharp-wide.thumb.png.53dcc3e5814f6d70c0b1964c3e97af2f.png

You can see images around multiples of 352.8k digital filter output rate.

 

 

Wide band output spectrum of 0-22.5 kHz sweep at DSD256 input, DSD filter set to 50 kHz, ASDM5 modulator:

ADI2-sweep-dsd256-xtr2_asdm5-wide_50k.thumb.png.85e9508b3b81d850c6038fb384f57a44.png

 

 

 

In wide-band spectrums, levels are peak levels made with "peak hold", not averaged but instead represent maximum peak levels.

 


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56 minutes ago, Miska said:

DSD filter set to 50 kHz, ASDM5 modulator:

 

Thanks! Is this what you use with your ADI-2 Pro at DSD256? 

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13 hours ago, Em2016 said:

Thanks! Is this what you use with your ADI-2 Pro at DSD256? 

 

I think I have 150 kHz filter and ASDM7EC at the moment. That lets a bit more noise through. Amount of noise in the output is roughly the same with seventh order modulators + 50 kHz filter and fifth order modulator and 150 kHz filter. It is easy to compare sound of the two filter settings by just turning the knob between the two. The difference to me is quite small. If you want absolutely lowest amount of noise in the output and good performance, use ASDM5EC and 50 kHz filter setting. When I did the measurements, I didn't have the EC modulators yet. "50 kHz" setting has extra notch around 400 kHz.

 


Signalyst - Developer of HQPlayer

Pulse & Fidelity - Software Defined Amplifiers

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4 minutes ago, Miska said:

 

I think I have 150 kHz filter and ASDM7EC at the moment. That lets a bit more noise through. Amount of noise in the output is roughly the same with seventh order modulators + 50 kHz filter and fifth order modulator and 150 kHz filter. It is easy to compare sound of the two filter settings by just turning the knob between the two. The difference to me is quite small. If you want absolutely lowest amount of noise in the output and good performance, use ASDM5EC and 50 kHz filter setting. When I did the measurements, I didn't have the EC modulators yet. "50 kHz" setting has extra notch around 400 kHz.

 

 

Thanks again!

 

This probably got lost in the HQP thread but you previously mentioned:

 

On 7/14/2019 at 7:55 AM, Miska said:

keep the AKM chip in DSD Direct mode. What comes out with/without DSD Direct is vastly different.

 

Can you show this difference, with DSD256 into your ADI-2, with & without DSD Direct?

 

Would be great to visually see how advantageous it can be when avoiding all DAC chip based DSP & modulator.

 

 

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30 minutes ago, Em2016 said:

Can you show this difference, with DSD256 into your ADI-2, with & without DSD Direct?

 

I don't have results for the non-direct DSD case stored anywhere.

 

With non-direct DSD mode the data is filtered with quite steep digital filter more like the 50 kHz setting. In direct DSD mode there's the relaxed filter setting available that doesn't increase the noise much, but rolls of smoothly without the extra notch.

 

Here's the 150 kHz filter with otherwise same settings for comparison:

ADI2-sweep-dsd256-xtr2_asdm5-wide_150k.thumb.png.4cf364237c3d425daff9b4cd04167f38.png

 


Signalyst - Developer of HQPlayer

Pulse & Fidelity - Software Defined Amplifiers

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5 minutes ago, Miska said:

 

I don't have results for the non-direct DSD case stored anywhere.

 

With non-direct DSD mode the data is filtered with quite steep digital filter more like the 50 kHz setting. In direct DSD mode there's the relaxed filter setting available that doesn't increase the noise much, but rolls of smoothly without the extra notch.

 

Here's the 150 kHz filter with otherwise same settings for comparison:

 

 

 

Thanks Jussi!

 

What are these spikes, that show up in all 0-22.5 kHz sweeps?

 

Quite high and in the audible range?

 

 

image.png.8f3c69dde896182d419a8f7472f26ff6.png

 

 

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6 hours ago, Em2016 said:

What are these spikes, that show up in all 0-22.5 kHz sweeps?

 

Quite high and in the audible range?

 

 

image.png.8f3c69dde896182d419a8f7472f26ff6.png

 

 

 

They are above 22.05 kHz. You can see where the sweep ends at 22.05 kHz. There is usually trend of increasing harmonic distortion as function of frequency. So THD of 20 kHz is not as low as THD of 1 kHz.

 


Signalyst - Developer of HQPlayer

Pulse & Fidelity - Software Defined Amplifiers

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I have an ADI-2 Pro that I acquired for ripping vinyl at 24-352 or DSD128. Has anyone experimented with an Sbooster LPS to see if you get any performance improvement? I see others in this thread I experimented with other LPS with success. Since ripping is very labor intensive, I want to get the maximum performance out of the RME unit. Thanks

 

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