Big MQA News (Really - Tidal and Software Decoding, etc...)

[jeeb]

No problems at all for me on Sierra. And that's running Roon, Tidal, Audirvana, JRiver, HQPlayer, iTunes . . .

 

As long as I exit one "exclusive mode" player before launching another, all is well.

 

I inquired about the speed/pitch problem, and apparently TIDAL did see some of this behaviour in testing, but just with Mavericks, which is what I'm running. I may upgrade the OS, or try some of the workarounds they suggested.

[jeeb]

I've updated the OS on my Mac Mini to Sierra, and the speed/pitch problems I was having in Exclusive Mode with TIDAL have disappeared.

[RichardTownsend]

I'd like to share my experiences with the forum. I tried Tidal masters with a Mytek Brooklyn, which can do a hardware decode. Luckily it's possible to do a very good A/B comparison between the sound with MQA engaged and without, as the Mytek allows you to switch MQA decoding on and off without affecting anything else (the volume stays exactly the same). So the comparison is between MQA decoded to 24/96 and a non-decoded MQA FLAC file at 24/48. I have been using Focal Elears headphones.

 

Using The Division Bell by Pink Floyd (which is mastered at 24/96) there is definitely a difference. It's much easier hearing the difference when I switch away from MQA to standard FLAC than the other way round - a 'digital sound' appears, something we've all sadly got used to in the last 30 years. There is an edge to voices, guitars and drums.

 

With MQA engaged, the sound is sweet and natural, and effortless to listen to. I get a feeling of 'Oh, that's what you're trying to say' - the musicians intentions seem clearer and I get a sense of real people playing instruments. Dave Gilmour's voice and guitar are smoother. It's just a pleasure.

 

When I try to compare the software decode in Tidal with the standard 24/48 FLAC file, I find it hard to tell any difference to be honest. It's not so easy to do this comparison as switching the MQA passthrough setting on and off confuses the Mytek, which stays at 24/96 even when I think it's getting 24/48. So I can do an A to a B, but not back again. Even so, I've done this comparison a few times and the difference between the software decode and 24/48 FLAC is not clear to me. It's possible this is not a valid comparison and something is not right here. But I thought I'd share my findings for what they're worth.

 

So for me, although the differences may be subtle, they make a very big impact to my listening pleasure.

 

I don't have the same music as standard 24/96 PCM to compare with so I can't say how MQA compares to that.

 

I hope this is useful

 

Rich

[RichardTownsend]

Hi all, just repeated my experiment with 'Soul Brothers' at 24/192 and the differences are even more clear. So I'd certainly recommend MQA with a hardware decoder. This time I can hear that software decoding does make a difference, but it's not as good as the hardware decoder.

 

Rich

[Geoffrey Armstrong]

I'd like to share my experiences with the forum. I tried Tidal masters with a Mytek Brooklyn, which can do a hardware decode. Luckily it's possible to do a very good A/B comparison between the sound with MQA engaged and without, as the Mytek allows you to switch MQA decoding on and off without affecting anything else (the volume stays exactly the same). So the comparison is between MQA decoded to 24/96 and a non-decoded MQA FLAC file at 24/48. I have been using Focal Elears headphones.

 

Using The Division Bell by Pink Floyd (which is mastered at 24/96) there is definitely a difference. It's much easier hearing the difference when I switch away from MQA to standard FLAC than the other way round - a 'digital sound' appears, something we've all sadly got used to in the last 30 years. There is an edge to voices, guitars and drums.

 

With MQA engaged, the sound is sweet and natural, and effortless to listen to. I get a feeling of 'Oh, that's what you're trying to say' - the musicians intentions seem clearer and I get a sense of real people playing instruments. Dave Gilmour's voice and guitar are smoother. It's just a pleasure.

 

When I try to compare the software decode in Tidal with the standard 24/48 FLAC file, I find it hard to tell any difference to be honest. It's not so easy to do this comparison as switching the MQA passthrough setting on and off confuses the Mytek, which stays at 24/96 even when I think it's getting 24/48. So I can do an A to a B, but not back again. Even so, I've done this comparison a few times and the difference between the software decode and 24/48 FLAC is not clear to me. It's possible this is not a valid comparison and something is not right here. But I thought I'd share my findings for what they're worth.

 

So for me, although the differences may be subtle, they make a very big impact to my listening pleasure.

 

I don't have the same music as standard 24/96 PCM to compare with so I can't say how MQA compares to that.

 

I hope this is useful

 

Rich

 

Useful for me. Yes, thanks Rich. Interestingly your findings agree with mine. For me also the just software decoded by Tidal file was disappointing and "digital" sounding. When I fed it through HQPlayer with the poly-sine-mqa filter it sounded "natural". Admittedly I was up sampling/converting all the way to DSD512 in that case.

 

I believe the HQPlayer approach with software decoded files is the best approach for the 99.99% "legacy" dacs out there.

 

Next, I'd like to hear a comparison of the software decoded file fed through HQPlayer to an MQA DAC (which will mean the MQA DAC will not do the final part of the decoding) to the same file fed directly to the MQA DAC for full MQA decoding.

 

I suspect that would be a tight race. Whichever wins though, HQPlayer will still probably be the best approach for non-MQA dacs.

[markrubin]

could I get some comments on this post which is on AVS:

High-Resolution Audio Pavilion at CES 2017 - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews

I have been doing my own MQA tests using a Mytek Brooklyn streaming from Tidal master: the referenced post seems to say MQA does not work properly and has major flaws: is any of this accurate?

tia

[Samuel T Cogley]

could I get some comments on this post which is on AVS:

High-Resolution Audio Pavilion at CES 2017 - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews

I have been doing my own MQA tests using a Mytek Brooklyn streaming from Tidal master: the referenced post seems to say MQA does not work properly and has major flaws: is any of this accurate?

tia

 

Have a look at this recent analysis. Way more dispassionate.

[cbee]

could I get some comments on this post which is on AVS:

High-Resolution Audio Pavilion at CES 2017 - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews

I have been doing my own MQA tests using a Mytek Brooklyn streaming from Tidal master: the referenced post seems to say MQA does not work properly and has major flaws: is any of this accurate?

tia

 

So all those fiendishly clever patented MQA algorithms and those unintelligible technical papers from Mr Stuart are just about a noise generator!. Never trust a Brit. We should already know that, its why they always play the baddies in Hollywood movies

[matthias]

Next, I'd like to hear a comparison of the software decoded file fed through HQPlayer to an MQA DAC (which will mean the MQA DAC will not do the final part of the decoding) to the same file fed directly to the MQA DAC for full MQA decoding.

 

+1

IMO, it will be a matter of time only before Miska and Mansr come up with a software solution for full MQA decoding, so no need for buying a MQA DAC anymore.

 

Matt

[mm67]

Are all MQA tracks supposed to be high res ? On several albums only the blue led of Explorer 2 lits up which seems to indicate that it is playing 44.1 or 48 Hz material. If someone else has an mqa dac could they try what happens with Walter Trout's Battle Scars album.

[markrubin]

Are all MQA tracks supposed to be high res ? On several albums only the blue led of Explorer 2 lits up which seems to indicate that it is playing 44.1 or 48 Hz material. If someone else has an mqa dac could they try what happens with Walter Trout's Battle Scars album.

 

Water Trout Battle Scars (deluxe Edition) from Tidal masters plays as an MQA file at 24 bit/48khz: the MQA light on the Brooklyn DAC is on

not all MQA titles are 24/192

[mm67]

Water Trout Battle Scars (deluxe Edition) from Tidal masters plays as an MQA file at 24 bit/48khz: the MQA light on the Brooklyn DAC is on

not all MQA titles are 24/196

 

Using the software decoder of Tidal app fooled me to think that everything was at least in 88.2 or 96 resolution, it seems to upsample everything no matter what original resolution was

[nightenrock]

Using the software decoder of Tidal app fooled me to think that everything was at least in 88.2 or 96 resolution, it seems to upsample everything no matter what original resolution was

 

Yeah that's what's happening for me too. Everything is showing 192/24.

[jhwalker]

Yeah that's what's happening for me too. Everything is showing 192/24.

 

Then it's not set up correctly.

 

The Tidal software decoder restores the original sampling rate (up to 24/96). So if it was originally in Redbook format, it will play back at 44.1kHz, other possible rates are 24/48, 24/88.2, 24/96.

 

If you have an MQA-capable DAC, of course, you will get the original sample rate, which could be anything from 44.1 up to 384k.

 

If you're getting 24/192 for everything, sounds like the exclusive mode setting in Tidal is not set properly, and your operating system itself is upsampling everything to 24/192.

[mm67]

Then it's not set up correctly.

 

The Tidal software decoder restores the original sampling rate (up to 24/96). So if it was originally in Redbook format, it will play back at 44.1kHz, other possible rates are 24/48, 24/88.2, 24/96.

 

If you have an MQA-capable DAC, of course, you will get the original sample rate, which could be anything from 44.1 up to 384k.

 

If you're getting 24/192 for everything, sounds like the exclusive mode setting in Tidal is not set properly, and your operating system itself is upsampling everything to 24/192.

So try playing that Walter Trout album with software decoder, at least on my system it gets upsampled to 24/96

[nightenrock]

Then it's not set up correctly.

 

The Tidal software decoder restores the original sampling rate (up to 24/96). So if it was originally in Redbook format, it will play back at 44.1kHz, other possible rates are 24/48, 24/88.2, 24/96.

 

If you have an MQA-capable DAC, of course, you will get the original sample rate, which could be anything from 44.1 up to 384k.

 

If you're getting 24/192 for everything, sounds like the exclusive mode setting in Tidal is not set properly, and your operating system itself is upsampling everything to 24/192.

 

I have it set to "exclusive mode" and also have "force volume" checked.

 

My Mac Mini can't go higher than El Capitan, which is what I'm running. Maybe that's the issue for me.

[jhwalker]

So try playing that Walter Trout album with software decoder, at least on my system it gets upsampled to 24/96

 

What makes you think it's being "upsampled"? If the album is posted in 24/96, it will play back in 24/96 through the software decoder.

 

Are you thinking it "should" be 24/44.1 or 24/48?

[mm67]

What makes you think it's being "upsampled"? If the album is posted in 24/96, it will play back in 24/96 through the software decoder.

 

Are you thinking it "should" be 24/44.1 or 24/48?

If same album is played through mqa dac it plays at 24/48, see couple posts back

[jhwalker]

If same album is played through mqa dac it plays at 24/48, see couple posts back

 

Ah, OK. I read the comment but obviously didn't understand what it was trying to say. Interesting.

[austinpop]

I'd like to share my experiences with the forum. I tried Tidal masters with a Mytek Brooklyn, which can do a hardware decode. Luckily it's possible to do a very good A/B comparison between the sound with MQA engaged and without, as the Mytek allows you to switch MQA decoding on and off without affecting anything else (the volume stays exactly the same). So the comparison is between MQA decoded to 24/96 and a non-decoded MQA FLAC file at 24/48. I have been using Focal Elears headphones.

 

Using The Division Bell by Pink Floyd (which is mastered at 24/96) there is definitely a difference. It's much easier hearing the difference when I switch away from MQA to standard FLAC than the other way round - a 'digital sound' appears, something we've all sadly got used to in the last 30 years. There is an edge to voices, guitars and drums.

 

With MQA engaged, the sound is sweet and natural, and effortless to listen to. I get a feeling of 'Oh, that's what you're trying to say' - the musicians intentions seem clearer and I get a sense of real people playing instruments. Dave Gilmour's voice and guitar are smoother. It's just a pleasure.

 

When I try to compare the software decode in Tidal with the standard 24/48 FLAC file, I find it hard to tell any difference to be honest. It's not so easy to do this comparison as switching the MQA passthrough setting on and off confuses the Mytek, which stays at 24/96 even when I think it's getting 24/48. So I can do an A to a B, but not back again. Even so, I've done this comparison a few times and the difference between the software decode and 24/48 FLAC is not clear to me. It's possible this is not a valid comparison and something is not right here. But I thought I'd share my findings for what they're worth.

 

So for me, although the differences may be subtle, they make a very big impact to my listening pleasure.

 

I don't have the same music as standard 24/96 PCM to compare with so I can't say how MQA compares to that.

 

I hope this is useful

 

Rich

 

Very useful. Thank you.

 

I posted a similar listening comparison, only for me, with a non-MQA DAC:

 

http://www.computeraudiophile.com/f11-software/roon-and-mqa-software-decoding-coming-31155/index13.html#post624140

[ejk1]

I'd like to share my experiences with the forum. I tried Tidal masters with a Mytek Brooklyn, which can do a hardware decode. Luckily it's possible to do a very good A/B comparison between the sound with MQA engaged and without, as the Mytek allows you to switch MQA decoding on and off without affecting anything else (the volume stays exactly the same). So the comparison is between MQA decoded to 24/96 and a non-decoded MQA FLAC file at 24/48. I have been using Focal Elears headphones.

 

Using The Division Bell by Pink Floyd (which is mastered at 24/96) there is definitely a difference. It's much easier hearing the difference when I switch away from MQA to standard FLAC than the other way round - a 'digital sound' appears, something we've all sadly got used to in the last 30 years. There is an edge to voices, guitars and drums.

 

With MQA engaged, the sound is sweet and natural, and effortless to listen to. I get a feeling of 'Oh, that's what you're trying to say' - the musicians intentions seem clearer and I get a sense of real people playing instruments. Dave Gilmour's voice and guitar are smoother. It's just a pleasure.

 

When I try to compare the software decode in Tidal with the standard 24/48 FLAC file, I find it hard to tell any difference to be honest. It's not so easy to do this comparison as switching the MQA passthrough setting on and off confuses the Mytek, which stays at 24/96 even when I think it's getting 24/48. So I can do an A to a B, but not back again. Even so, I've done this comparison a few times and the difference between the software decode and 24/48 FLAC is not clear to me. It's possible this is not a valid comparison and something is not right here. But I thought I'd share my findings for what they're worth.

 

So for me, although the differences may be subtle, they make a very big impact to my listening pleasure.

 

I don't have the same music as standard 24/96 PCM to compare with so I can't say how MQA compares to that.

 

I hope this is useful

 

Rich

 

 

Rich can you tell me if the Mytek Brooklyn will decode MQA via coax and optical or just via USB

 

Thanks

[austinpop]

If same album is played through mqa dac it plays at 24/48, see couple posts back

 

Trying to understand the net-net here. Is this a discovery that:

1. MQA tracks exist that have no "folding" at all, because their native resolution is 24/48? And,
   
2. The MQA SW decoder in the Tidal app unconditionally does a 1-step unfold, even if the source file requires no unfolding?
   

If so, that seems to be a bug in the MQA decoder. Unfortunately, the only way to really know seems to be if you have an MQA DAC.

 

Just for completeness, and to ensure no misunderstanding:

1. "Exclusive mode" and "force volume" are on when SW decoding?
   
2. And "MQA Passthrough" is on when sending to the MQA DAC?
   
3. And - the DAC is not configured to do any upsampling of its own?
   

If all of the above, then yes, truly interesting.

[mm67]

Trying to understand the net-net here. Is this a discovery that:

1. MQA tracks exist that have no "folding" at all, because their native resolution is 24/48? And,
   
2. The MQA SW decoder in the Tidal app unconditionally does a 1-step unfold, even if the source file requires no unfolding?
   

If so, that seems to be a bug in the MQA decoder. Unfortunately, the only way to really know seems to be if you have an MQA DAC.

 

Just for completeness, and to ensure no misunderstanding:

1. "Exclusive mode" and "force volume" are on when SW decoding?
   
2. And "MQA Passthrough" is on when sending to the MQA DAC?
   
3. And - the DAC is not configured to do any upsampling of its own?
   

If all of the above, then yes, truly interesting.

 

1. Those are on

2. Yes, MQA Passthrough on to Explorer 2 plays at 24/48, MQA Passthrough off to a non - MQA dac plays at 24/96

3. No upsampling on

[austinpop]

1. Those are on

2. Yes, MQA Passthrough on to Explorer 2 plays at 24/48, MQA Passthrough off to a non - MQA dac plays at 24/96

3. No upsampling on

 

Try turning off MQA pass through when sending to the Explorer2.

 

It is claimed that the output of the SW decoder is still a valid MQA stream, and when sent to an MQA DAC, will cause the blue light.

 

Please tell us what happens.

[austinpop]

See:

 

http://www.audiostream.com/content/mqa-decoding-explained

 

 

Sent from my iPhone using Computer Audiophile