Discussion of AC mains isolation transformers

[JohnSwenson]

Forgive me if this is a silly question . . . Let's say I have a Topaz unit with duplex outlet, and I only need to power two devices-- an LPS-1 feeding a bus-powered DAC/amp, and a laptop. Would it be better to connect both devices directly to the two outlets on the Topaz, or connect a power strip to the Topaz and plug both devices in to the power strip? I'm asking because I've read posts stressing the importance of connecting all devices to one strip. I'm not sure whether connecting both devices directly to the Topaz would defeat some of the purpose of using the isolation transformer to begin with.

 

A duplex outlet is the same thing, there just metal between the two outlets, so if you just have 2 plugs, just plug them into the duplex outlets and be done with it.

 

John S.

[Cornan]

Where are the measurements? JS already said if it doesn't provide good measurements it's probably not a good solution.

I will only power my DAC/HPA with it (ie. one device). 1500 VA should be more than enough without even counting.

 

BTW. They have this available for US http://www.airlinktransformers.com/balanced_power_supply/standard_balanced_power_supplies/BPS1502/

...and for UK and Australia as well.

 

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[esmit]

I think it would be better to consider a Regen or Remedy USB Reclocker (or microRendu) between your laptop and DAC, that you power with the LPS-1.

[asdf1000]

Just wanted to open up my question to John above, to all here also

 

If you have a power strip which has no filtering between the outlets but it does have a circuit breaker, is this inlet protection of the power strip going to contribute to increasing the impedance between the outlets/boxes on this one power strip?

 

And thus does the circuit breaker contribute to increased noise generated by leakage currents?

 

I'm finding that even the custom powerstrip makers are hesitant to custom make me a powerstrip without a circuit breaker - this is fair enough too - safety first.

 

John mentioned the Tripp Lite but I can't find any of their models that don't have a circuit breaker, so I'm assuming the circuit breaker doesn't contribute to increasing the impedance between outlets?

 

Appreciate anyone's help/clarification

 

Many thanks in advance :-)

[sandyk]

If you have a power strip which has no filtering between the outlets but it does have a circuit breaker, is this inlet protection of the power strip going to contribute to increasing the impedance between the outlets/boxes on this one power strip?

 

Not if it is the bimetallic strip type.

For a brief description in reasonable English, check this site.

 

Miniature Circuit Breaker or MCB | Electrical4u

[asdf1000]

Not if it is the bimetallic strip type.

For a brief description in reasonable English, check this site.

 

Miniature Circuit Breaker or MCB | Electrical4u

 

Thanks for that. Are those bimetallic strip types found in $30 powerstrips, like the Tripp Lites? Or only in more expensive power strips?

 

ANd would you say the $30 circuit breakers found in Australia (like HPM, Jackson) are of the bimetallic strip type? If not, what type are they typically?

 

[sandyk]

Thanks for that. Are those bimetallic strip types found in $30 powerstrips, like the Tripp Lites? Or only in more expensive power strips?

 

ANd would you say the $30 circuit breakers found in Australia (like HPM, Jackson) are of the bimetallic strip type? If not, what type are they typically?

 

 

I would expect they are more likely to be used in cheap stuff like that as they wouldn't need magnetic coil windings, but you would need to research this for yourself.

If they are this type, their contact resistance would be negligible if they haven't had any operations due to overload protection, which would possibly result in some arcing and eventual contact degradation.

[asdf1000]

I would expect they are more likely to be used in cheap stuff like that as they wouldn't need magnetic coil windings, but you would need to research this for yourself.

If they are this type, their contact resistance would be negligible if they haven't had any operations due to overload protection, which would possibly result in some arcing and eventual contact degradation.

Yep that makes sense. If a fuse is instead used for inlet protection, does that result in increased impedances between outlets, on the same powerstrip?

 

I have 'between outlets' in bold because this is the increased impedance John's been talking about, which leads to increased noise generated by leakage currents (if I understood correctly, which I may not have).

[sig8]

I see some .005, and .001 pf capacitance Topaz units on ebay, but none .0005 units. I know lower is better, but how significant is this number. Thanks.

[guzmanatm]

I think it would be better to consider a Regen or Remedy USB Reclocker (or microRendu) between your laptop and DAC, that you power with the LPS-1.

 

If this comment was in response to me, I do in fact have a USB Regen powered by LPS-1 in between my DAC and laptop. Both devices made a substantial improvement to my ears-- such that I wouldn't want to listen to my setup without either in place!

 

Hard to say which made the bigger improvement in my system between the Regen and LPS-1. If I had to go with one it probably be the Regen as it really seemed to transform my DAC with major improvements to clarity and musicality. Whereas the LPS-1 did much to increase pace, space, and a tighter more extended bass (poet and I don't know it ?!?).

 

I'm considering a microRendu, but I need to do a bit more research before investing to make sure it is a good fit for my setup. Right now I'm looking at a Topaz unit to help clean up some of the noise from my apartment building which was built in the 1960s . . .

[JohnSwenson]

Just wanted to open up my question to John above, to all here also

 

If you have a power strip which has no filtering between the outlets but it does have a circuit breaker, is this inlet protection of the power strip going to contribute to increasing the impedance between the outlets/boxes on this one power strip?

 

And thus does the circuit breaker contribute to increased noise generated by leakage currents?

 

I'm finding that even the custom powerstrip makers are hesitant to custom make me a powerstrip without a circuit breaker - this is fair enough too - safety first.

 

John mentioned the Tripp Lite but I can't find any of their models that don't have a circuit breaker, so I'm assuming the circuit breaker doesn't contribute to increasing the impedance between outlets?

 

Appreciate anyone's help/clarification

 

Many thanks in advance :-)

 

A circuit breaker by itself does not increase impedance between outlets, it is the "filtering" that causes the problems. I have been using a Tripp Lite that has the circuit breaker but nothing else, this seems to work well. I'm going to be eventually building my own.

 

John S.

[JohnSwenson]

I see some .005, and .001 pf capacitance Topaz units on ebay, but none .0005 units. I know lower is better, but how significant is this number. Thanks.

 

Remember the low capacitance is to decrease the transmission of higher frequency components from the AC "outside world" into your audio system. The capacitance determines how well it does this, so going from .005 to .0005 will mean the high frequency noise is suppressed even more. The .005 is already REALLY good at doing this. The one more zero is probably not going to matter in most systems.

 

John S.

[asdf1000]

A circuit breaker by itself does not increase impedance between outlets, it is the "filtering" that causes the problems. I have been using a Tripp Lite that has the circuit breaker but nothing else, this seems to work well. I'm going to be eventually building my own.

 

John S.

Thanks again John

 

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[mikicasellas]

Hello All,

 

I just measure the whole VA of my system, i have following others suggestions including John Swenson's and got the Tripplite strip and the Power monitoring "for Dummies", my system seems to display the following (see attached pic below) at high volumes, i don't know if i did something wrong cause my amp is a Hegel H200 (200watts) a Hegel P20 preamp, an Auralic Vega Dac, an Anthem MRX 700 receiver, a MacMini and the Microrendu (all connected to the strip and from there to the wall outlet):

 

 

Now with this measurement (If OK):

 

I am waiting for my LPS-1 for the MicroRendu, now i am towards deciding which Isolator to pick....

 

Which of the following choices from Topaz Isolation Transformers could suggest to work best, i mean all of them are 1KVA, seems to be more than enough from what i read, but in terms of condition and Capacitance.

 

TOPAZ ULTRA-ISOLATOR LINE NOISE SUPPRESSOR 91001-11 | eBay

 

Topaz 1kva ultra isolator isolation transformer 120/240:120/240 91001-21 | eBay

 

TOPAZ ELECTRONICS ULTRA ISOLATION TRANSFORMER 91001-21 Isolator .001pf 120/240V | eBay

 

Topaz 91001-22 Line Noise Suppressing Ultra-Isolator Transformer 1 kVA | eBay

 

TOPAZ POWER 91001-31 RQAUS1 9100131 | eBay

 

I am really NOT good at all with electronics and specs...

 

Help is needed and very appreciated

 

Thanks!

[JohnSwenson]

Hello All,

 

I just measure the whole VA of my system, i have following others suggestions including John Swenson's and got the Tripplite strip and the Power monitoring "for Dummies", my system seems to display the following (see attached pic below) at high volumes, i don't know if i did something wrong cause my amp is a Hegel H200 (200watts) a Hegel P20 preamp, an Auralic Vega Dac, an Anthem MRX 700 receiver, a MacMini and the Microrendu (all connected to the strip and from there to the wall outlet):

 

[ATTACH=CONFIG]30537[/ATTACH]

 

Now with this measurement (If OK):

 

I am waiting for my LPS-1 for the MicroRendu, now i am towards deciding which Isolator to pick....

 

Which of the following choices from Topaz Isolation Transformers could suggest to work best, i mean all of them are 1KVA, seems to be more than enough from what i read, but in terms of condition and Capacitance.

 

TOPAZ ULTRA-ISOLATOR LINE NOISE SUPPRESSOR 91001-11 | eBay

 

Topaz 1kva ultra isolator isolation transformer 120/240:120/240 91001-21 | eBay

 

TOPAZ ELECTRONICS ULTRA ISOLATION TRANSFORMER 91001-21 Isolator .001pf 120/240V | eBay

 

Topaz 91001-22 Line Noise Suppressing Ultra-Isolator Transformer 1 kVA | eBay

 

TOPAZ POWER 91001-31 RQAUS1 9100131 | eBay

 

I am really NOT good at all with electronics and specs...

 

Help is needed and very appreciated

 

Thanks!

 

The fourth one down in your list is the only one with outlets and a cord so it is probably the one to go with. The picture does not show if there is a plug on the cord, you may have to add one yourself (very easy to do). I assume you are in the US so you use 120V? This one is 120 in 120 out which is what you most likely want for a room in the US.

 

John S.

[mikicasellas]

Thanks John i appreciate this!

[asdf1000]

Hi all,

So I picked up my Elgar today. Photos attached below.

I had an IEC inlet and heavy duty Australian outlet fitted as well as had it function tested and safety tested etc.

It's dead quiet when running, which is in line with what a couple others on other forums have said too.

It's up on a couple pieces of timber because it's eventually going on timber flooring and I didn't want metal on timber. I'll put some rubber under the timber this weekend.

I've got a cheap-Charlie powerboard with no surge protection and no filtering to use temporarily, while I keep looking for a well built power strip with Aussie outlets.

Up to now my system has been plugged into a PS Audio Dectet. Will hook the Elgar tonight/tomorrow for first listening tests.

Sent from my Blackberry DTEK50 using Tapatalk

 

 

 

[One and a half]

Hi all,

So I picked up my Elgar today. Photos attached below.

 

The base may look substantial, but it could be cast iron. If the feet are misaligned horizontally, even by a little bit, as the fixing screws are tightened, the cast iron can give way and crack very easily.

Built in 1987, it will last for a long time to come.

[asdf1000]

The base may look substantial, but it could be cast iron. If the feet are misaligned horizontally, even by a little bit, as the fixing screws are tightened, the cast iron can give way and crack very easily.

Built in 1987, it will last for a long time to come.

Thanks for the tips mate. Rubber under the wood would be better? This would allow for a little levelling mismatch between the feet?

 

 

 

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[One and a half]

Thanks for the tips mate. Rubber under the wood would be better? This would allow for a little levelling mismatch between the feet?

 

 

 

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Best are thin shims, like 0.05mm to even them out, might need a few.

Place a spirit level on the top of the transformer fitted to a level surface is a workable solution , optimum are dial gauges .

The thing is the feet may have been stressed a few times over the years, it just one screw tightened to far, and broken foot.

The base can be metal but that metal base can be attached with timber.

[asdf1000]

Best are thin shims, like 0.05mm to even them out, might need a few.

Place a spirit level on the top of the transformer fitted to a level surface is a workable solution , optimum are dial gauges .

The thing is the feet may have been stressed a few times over the years, it just one screw tightened to far, and broken foot.

The base can be metal but that metal base can be attached with timber.

Roger. Just installing the Clipsal plug in RCD , as per your recommendation. Safety first!

 

 

 

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[Middy]

Didn't realise they are beasts

I hope it gives you great results..?

 

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[asdf1000]

Didn't realise they are beasts

I hope it gives you great results..

 

Sent from my SM-G900F using Computer Audiophile mobile app

 

Just have the system going now. Can't wipe the smile from my face.

 

Major thanks to One and a Half, Sandy Alex, Uptone Alex and all others for the tips and wisdom shared in this thread and MASSIVE thanks to the guru himself of course, John S.

 

Photo attached. Alkaline batteries powering the microRendu while I wait for my LPS-1 to arrive in the next couple weeks.

 

This cheap Charlie power board may have some small amount of surge protection so the search continues for a well made board with no filtering or surge suppression.

 

 

 

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[asdf1000]

The chain should look like this:

Iso transformer output -> portable rcd 30mA -> standard 6+ standard plug board with no suppression devices.

Have the power amp and pre amp close to the cable end and the sources can follow whatever you wish.

 

Try to find boards that are 4x 2 instead of 6 x 1.

If the iso transformer has a fuse at it's inlet, and the powerstrip has a circuitbreaker on it's inlet, is the portable RCD still needed in between these two, i.e. on the iso transformers outlet?

 

JayCar's website says the following about the portable RCD: "RCDs are not a substitute for common sense around mains electricity. While they will work in most situations, they may not in some cases and are not a substitute for current overload devices such as fuses and circuit breakers."

Thanks again in advance

[sandyk]

If the iso transformer has a fuse at it's inlet, is the portable RCD still needed on the iso transformers outlet?

 

JayCar's website says the following about the portable RCD: "RCDs are not a substitute for common sense around mains electricity. While they will work in most situations, they may not in some cases and are not a substitute for current overload devices such as fuses and circuit breakers."

 

Since my Elgar already has a 10A slow-burn fuse at the inlet, is a portable RCD necessary still?

 

Thanks again in advance

 

A fuse may protect the equipment from further damage, or perhaps even a fire. (fuses don't normally blow except in major fault conditions) but it only takes 50mA through your body to kill you. You can even get a shock at from a light switch that has absorbed moisture, (I did a couple of years ago, although the shock was mild) with the return path through the floor. In that case, if the leakage was high enough, the RCD that most modern houses have will protect you. The same can happen when using an electric drill on a wall and the bit hits a hidden power cable.