dCS Network Bridge

[stevebythebay]

Sounds like a networking issue, and I'd start by rebooting/restarting the AirExpress and then the MacMini. Also, you might consider reserving IP addresses for the dCS, though that seems unlikely to be the real source of the problem. I'm betting its the WiFi that is the culprit. The app on the MacBook Air is having issues in finding its way or getting the Roon Core to respond in a reasonable amount of time. 

[hltf]

Thanks a lot for the thoughts again Steve.  I will look at the WiFi connection.  That makes sense.  

 

I am wondering if it could be my Verizon FIOS modem which is a bit old.  Now that I think about it we often have very short-lived breaks in WiFi.  Very likely that is doing what you say to the Roon-DCS connection.  Maybe I need to replace the Verizon modem.  I will reach out to Verizon to see what is possible there.  Unfortunately I am limited to only a few modems that work for Verizon FIOS.

 

On a positive note the sound I am now getting is really wonderful.  I put the MacMini, external HD and DCS NB on the a SR Tranquility Base and the modem, router right alongside it.  Have also maxed out my Herbies and isolation/damping tricks.

[stevebythebay]

24 minutes ago, hltf said:

Thanks a lot for the thoughts again Steve.  I will look at the WiFi connection.  That makes sense.  

 

I am wondering if it could be my Verizon FIOS modem which is a bit old.  Now that I think about it we often have very short-lived breaks in WiFi.  Very likely that is doing what you say to the Roon-DCS connection.  Maybe I need to replace the Verizon modem.  I will reach out to Verizon to see what is possible there.  Unfortunately I am limited to only a few modems that work for Verizon FIOS.

 

On a positive note the sound I am now getting is really wonderful.  I put the MacMini, external HD and DCS NB on the a SR Tranquility Base and the modem, router right alongside it.  Have also maxed out my Herbies and isolation/damping tricks.

Unless I'm wrong, it's your AirPort Extreme that is the focal point of your network, not the FIOS.  The FIOS is really just your gateway to the Internet. It is on another network altogether (you can verify that by logging into the FIOS). It is the gateway address you'd see in your AirPort Extreme. If your Airport Extreme's WiFi is extremely busy due to servicing many concurrent devices or streaming traffic, that would explain delays which could result in the Roon behavior. 

[hltf]

Thanks a lot for the detailed insights Steve.  They have helped illuminate the types of things going on here. 

 

The FIOS network is the one that my MacBook Air goes to, not to the Airport Extreme.  Only the Mac mini and the DCS NB are wired to the Airport Extreme.  I thought I'd keep wifi traffic away from the Airport Extreme as I understand that is not a good thing for audio.  So I still suspect the FIOS. Or now I am thinking it is possibly the fact that I had mistakenly designated sound output for the MacBook Air to go to the DCS NB.  Since I just disabled this last, I haven't had any problems.  So let's see.

 

And many thanks again.

[Urs]

Is my understanding correct, that the dCS network bridge sends the same signal at the same time to both AES outputs (AES1 and AES2)? So I could connect the dcs network bridge to two different DACs (both have a single AES input), AES1 to my main DAC and AES2 to my desktop DAC.

Reading the manual, this should work, as long as I care that the network bridge does not change to dual AES mode. I would just set the minimum rate for dual AES sample rate to 352kS/s (I have only PCM files up to 192kS/s).

 

Additional note: I don't have a dCS DAC. Main DAC is a Weiss DAC1 and desktop DAC is a Crane Song Solaris.

[stevebythebay]

15 minutes ago, Urs said:

Is my understanding correct, that the dCS network bridge sends the same signal at the same time to both AES outputs (AES1 and AES2)? So I could connect the dcs network bridge to two different DACs (both have a single AES input), AES1 to my main DAC and AES2 to my desktop DAC.

Reading the manual, this should work, as long as I care that the network bridge does not change to dual AES mode. I would just set the minimum rate for dual AES sample rate to 352kS/s (I have only PCM files up to 192kS/s).

 

Additional note: I don't have a dCS DAC. Main DAC is a Weiss DAC1 and desktop DAC is a Crane Song Solaris.

Best to ask this directly of dCS via their web site to get explicit confirmation. 

[hltf]

Steve, not sure if it is interesting for you too given your setup, but just in case.  I was able to turn off wifi in the Airport Extreme for a small gain in SQ. 

[stevebythebay]

9 minutes ago, hltf said:

Steve, not sure if it is interesting for you too given your setup, but just in case.  I was able to turn off wifi in the Airport Extreme for a small gain in SQ. 

So, what is the network path from your Roon app to the Roon Core?  If it's app to FIOS to Airport Express and then Roon Core then you're traversing multiple networks.  Delays aplenty it would appear. You might try using an app like Fing to do pinging to the Roon Core to see how that performs. 

[hltf]

Yes, it is Roon app to FIOS to Airport Extreme and then Roon Core.  OK I will watch for network delays as you say.  So far so good, but I only tried this new setup for a bit.  Let's see.  

[Urs]

23 hours ago, Urs said:

Is my understanding correct, that the dCS network bridge sends the same signal at the same time to both AES outputs (AES1 and AES2)? So I could connect the dcs network bridge to two different DACs (both have a single AES input), AES1 to my main DAC and AES2 to my desktop DAC.

Reading the manual, this should work, as long as I care that the network bridge does not change to dual AES mode. I would just set the minimum rate for dual AES sample rate to 352kS/s (I have only PCM files up to 192kS/s).

 

Additional note: I don't have a dCS DAC. Main DAC is a Weiss DAC1 and desktop DAC is a Crane Song Solaris.

 

22 hours ago, stevebythebay said:

Best to ask this directly of dCS via their web site to get explicit confirmation. 

 

In case, someone is interested:

I got confirmation from dCS technical support. It works as I was hoping for. Excellent!

[Beolab]

Ordered one dCS NB in Silver after an extensive comparission with Auralic Aries and MicroR , Aurrender N10 and W20. 

The best sound i have heard from a streamer period! 

 

It will after delivery be connected to my new dCS Puccini DAC/SACD 1 Bit DSD upsampler sw 1.4 .1

combined with  the Puccini Master U-Clock Mk II .

This combo creates a flawless sound. 

 

 

[Cyrus]

@Beolab  Congratulations!

 

Can you provide more details on the differences, specifically vs the Aurender components? Did you only use it with the other dCS products you list, or were you able to compare with other DACs in the chain? What were your connection methods? 

 

Thanks!

[stevebythebay]

I had the Aurender N10 in my system well before putting in the Network Bridge (see my review comments from May).  I suppose using the Network Bridge, not only for it's functional capabilities but for its sonics, will depend on the level of your system and the alternatives.  From your signature you're already using some very highest end components.  Allowing the Roon source to send out the data stream to a dCS NB and connecting it via S/PDIF to your Yggdrasil would be a step up over using the microRendu (even if, as I did, you're using the Signature LPS).  But I'd try it in your system first.

[Cyrus]

@stevebythebay   I need to update my signature. Here are some updates in case you have any additional thoughts??? Thanks.

 

I just ordered the Sonore UltraRendu, which will be powered by an Uptone Ultracap LPS-1. I also have an Uptone IsoRegen in the chain, powered by it's own LPS-1. Haven't gone all the way with Sonore in terms of the Signature Rendu SE, though it is still an option.

 

The UltraRendu is for testing purposes and will be used in a secondary system.

 

I've been sitting on the fence with respect to the dCS Network Bridge or Antipodes. I would have ordered the DX Gen 3 by now but want confirmation on user installed memory before doing so. For now, based on my needs, component flexibility and setup: I rank the DX Gen 3 / Core first followed by the dCS NB and then the Sig Rendu SE. The advantage of Antipodes for me, is having one component for multiple functions and I really like having the Roon Core/Server and Renderer functions contained in one unit. If I go with the dCS NB then either my current SGC sonicTransporter AP or the Antipodes Core will serve as Roon Core/Server 

 

The Schiit Yggdrasil will soon be joined by a Denafrips Terminator. 

[stevebythebay]

Seems that the Antipodes has much in common, along with limitations, of similar music servers like the Aurender N10.  Because they are an attempt to put all the key pieces into a single box, you might be left high and dry if the direction of music leans more towards distributed designs, like Roon. And with the viability of MQA and other streaming technologies, you might be left shortchanged. Over time, as this area of music playback becomes more mature and settled, the safer a single box choice will become. 

[Cyrus]

@stevebythebay  Thank you for your thoughts on this.

 

Do you or others have any idea on when the USB update will happen for the dCS NB?

[stevebythebay]

Not clear when updates wIll happen, though I’d think soon. Likely to include not only USB but also MQA and numerous fixes. Hope that once they’re released Chris will reveal his long promised review. 

[Cyrus]

Thanks Steve. Yes, Chris has a few reviews to deliver on. : ) 

[Beolab]

Discovered that the dCS Bridge can read MQA files, it see them as a 24/48khz Flac file. 

 

I did not know that it could read / see them at all witout the MQA upgrade. Other streamers can see them but they just read them as 16/44.1 files. 

 

Two examples: 

 

Steely Dan : Two against Nature 

 

Kari Bremnes: Det Vi har 

albums

[AmusedToD]

17 minutes ago, Beolab said:

Discovered that the dCS Bridge can read MQA files, it see them as a 24/48khz Flac file. 

 

I did not know that it could read / see them at all witout the MQA upgrade. Other streamers can see them but they just read them as 16/44.1 files. 

 

Two examples: 

 

Steely Dan : Two against Nature 

 

Kari Bremnes: Det Vi har 

albums

 

If you are using TIDAL MQA, 24/48 is what you will get from MQA files (when fully unfolded they will go up to 24/192, and some files even up to DXD - 24/384).

 

dCS announced that the Network Bridge will be able to do the first unfolding of MQA, but only after a firmware upgrade some time in the future. Not sure if they released it already.

[stevebythebay]

just where / how is the dCS reporting this?  Via their own app or in the downstream DAC?  

[Beolab]

It is both displayed in the app and in the dCS DAC display and i need to re-set the Master Clock to 48khz to make the DAC lock the clock signal, so it is true 24/48khz signal as a mather of fact wich sounds tremendously good. 

 

 

[austinpop]

3 hours ago, AmusedToD said:

 

If you are using TIDAL MQA, 24/48 is what you will get from MQA files (when fully unfolded they will go up to 24/192, and some files even up to DXD - 24/384).

 

dCS announced that the Network Bridge will be able to do the first unfolding of MQA, but only after a firmware upgrade some time in the future. Not sure if they released it already.

 

I just read this in the AudioStream review:

 

Quote

The Bridge, being FPGA-based, is firmware updatable via its network connection ("What dark magic is this?"). These software updates will include performance enhancements including an MQA update which will natively perform the 1st MQA unfold to 24.96 and the USB port, which is currently for USB storage, will become USB DAC enabled so you can output your data via USB to your USB DAC.
Read more at https://www.audiostream.com/content/dcs-network-bridge#oqmZRCfZsAVeF3Yr.99

 

Do you folks know if this has already happened? Can the dCS NB output data to a DAC via USB?

[stevebythebay]

Not yet.  The rollout of firmware is slow.  Hopefully within the next month or so.

[George Hincapie]

Has anyone done a SQ comparison between the dCS NB and the Allo DigiOne with LPSU?