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dCS Network Bridge


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I does not got the MQA SW yet, but it can read and unfould MQA files in Tidal to 24/48khz and unfould MQA files on my HDD and they are read as 24/96 Flac or 24/192. 

And i also found it to read a MQA 32/192khz and it was readalso  as a Flac file. So it got some support, and the sound is a few notches better in fluid resolution than SACD or CD in my oppinion with the latest appodizing DSP PCM filter no pre / after ringing. 

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Ok guys, I discussed this with @Beolab in private messages, but I think this is a rather interesting matter and would like to ask other dCS owners too of their experiences. The matter involves 2 situations:

 

1. dCS Network Bridge connected via dual AES to a dCS DAC (Paganini in my case)

2. dCS Network Bridge connected via dual AES to a dCS DAC, with an external dCS Master clock added into the mix

 

The NB has 2 word clock inputs, one accepts 44.1 and multiples (meaning 88.2, 176.4 and 352.8) and the other accepts 48 and multiples (meaning 96, 192, 384). Everything is clear with this.

 

The NB has also 1 word clock output which outputs data rate up to 96. So if I slave the Paganini clock input directly to the NB clock output, I will get only up to 96 because this is the limit of the NB’s clock output according to the manual. So if I don’t have an external Master clock, and just connect the clock output of the NB to the clock input of the Paganini, what happens if I play files with sample rates higher than 24/96 (which is the upper limit of the NB clock output)? Will I lose the sync?

 

Now let’s add the Master clock into the mix, and this becomes only more confusing. 

 

I can connect the 44.1 (and multiples) word clock output on the master clock to the 44.1 (and multiples) input on the NB input, and 48 (and multiples) word clock output on the master clock to the 48 (and multiples) on the NB input. This is clear. 

 

However, the Paganini DAC has only 1 word clock input that accepts all data rates up to 192, regardless if they are multiples of 44.1 or 48, meaning it can accept 44.1, 48, 88.2, 96, 176.4 and 192.

 

So which output on the Master clock should be connected to the Paganini clock input? As far as I understand, there are no word clock outputs on any dCS Master clock that support both 44.1 and 48 (and multiples of both) simultaneously? Or did I get all this wrong?

 

 

 

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Has anyone compared the ultrarendu + LPS1 versus the DCS NB?

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And yesterday came similar info: http://www.theabsolutesound.com/articles/dcs-launches-mqa-support-across-product-ranges/

 

One other interesting bit of info: received confirmation about Audirvana Plus, that if it is requested to play an MQA file and sees a downstream device offering up MQA first unfold (seen as a decoder device), it will defer to the downstream device. Hoping if/when Roon offers up MQA support it behaves in the same way. By the way, this came from Damien Plisson, the developer.  

Steve Schaffer

Grimm MU1 / dCS Vivaldi Upsampler - APEX DAC - Clock / Spectral DMC-30SV preamp / Spectral Anniversary monoblocks / Wilson Audio Alexia V /  Wilson Lōkē subs / Shunyata Everest / Shunyata Omega interconnects, power cables, Ethernet / Shunyata Altaira / Uptone EtherREGEN switch / Cybershaft OP21A-D / Uptone JS2 LPS / HRS racks - Vortex footers - damping plates

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18 hours ago, AmusedToD said:

Ok guys, I discussed this with @Beolab in private messages, but I think this is a rather interesting matter and would like to ask other dCS owners too of their experiences. The matter involves 2 situations:

 

1. dCS Network Bridge connected via dual AES to a dCS DAC (Paganini in my case)

2. dCS Network Bridge connected via dual AES to a dCS DAC, with an external dCS Master clock added into the mix

 

The NB has 2 word clock inputs, one accepts 44.1 and multiples (meaning 88.2, 176.4 and 352.8) and the other accepts 48 and multiples (meaning 96, 192, 384). Everything is clear with this.

 

The NB has also 1 word clock output which outputs data rate up to 96. So if I slave the Paganini clock input directly to the NB clock output, I will get only up to 96 because this is the limit of the NB’s clock output according to the manual. So if I don’t have an external Master clock, and just connect the clock output of the NB to the clock input of the Paganini, what happens if I play files with sample rates higher than 24/96 (which is the upper limit of the NB clock output)? Will I lose the sync?

 

Now let’s add the Master clock into the mix, and this becomes only more confusing. 

 

I can connect the 44.1 (and multiples) word clock output on the master clock to the 44.1 (and multiples) input on the NB input, and 48 (and multiples) word clock output on the master clock to the 48 (and multiples) on the NB input. This is clear. 

 

However, the Paganini DAC has only 1 word clock input that accepts all data rates up to 192, regardless if they are multiples of 44.1 or 48, meaning it can accept 44.1, 48, 88.2, 96, 176.4 and 192.

 

So which output on the Master clock should be connected to the Paganini clock input? As far as I understand, there are no word clock outputs on any dCS Master clock that support both 44.1 and 48 (and multiples of both) simultaneously? Or did I get all this wrong?

 

 

 

I got some help from dCS on this one:

 

Begin quote

 

"dCS started adding word clock I/O to consumer products in 1999. These features have been on our pro products from 1989.

-          1st Generation 1999 to 2007 – Classic products: Elgar Plus / Delius / Purcell / Verdi / Verona. These have a basic clocking interface where the clock frequency must match the (single wire) sample rate. So, the DAC accepts a 44.1kHz word clock for 44.1 data, or a 96kHz word clock for Dual AES 192kS/s data, for example. Single-wire interfaces are limited to 96 maximum.  

 

-          2nd Generation 2007 to 2015 – Scarlatti / Paganini / Puccini / Debussy. These can multiply the clock frequency by 0.25 / 0.5 / 1 / 2 / 4 to match the sample rate. So, the DAC accepts a clock at 44.1, 88.2 or 176.4kHz for data at 44.1, 88.2, 176.4 or DSD. Similarly with 48, 96 and 192 clock and data rates. More flexible. (This multiplier feature was added to Elgar Plus also.) Computer audio causes a problem here, because the sample rate can change from one file to another. If the sample rate is not an exact multiple of the clock frequency, the DAC will lose lock with the Master Clock. There are ways around this, but they not ideal.

 

-          3rd Generation 2012 to present – Vivaldi / Rossini / Network Bridge. These have our advanced clocking system, featuring 2 word clock inputs that can each lock to word clock at 44.1, 48, 88.2, 96, 176.4 or 192kHz. Now you can drive the Upsampler and DAC with bothbase clock frequencies simultaneously. Yhey can choose the compatible clock automatically and it is “set & forget”.

 

We designed the Network Bridge with the intention of serving all 3 generations or products. You can connect  both clock inputs to a Vivaldi or Rossini Master Clock and drive it with both 44.1 and 48kHz. The asynchronous USB interface regulates the delivery of data from the network to match the Clock frequency, or a multiple, changing clocks inputs as needed.

 

With a 3rd Generation DAC and Upsampler, lock them to both frequencies also. For the earlier DACs and Upsamplers, slave to the Bridge’s word clock output instead. The 96kHz limit here ensures even a 1stGeneration system can keep more of the benefit from locking the Bridge to the Master Clock.

 

So, in ToD’s system, you can play a 24/192 file with the Bridge locked to the Master Clock – it will select the 48kHz Clock output. The data output can be single-wire or Dual AES into the Paganini DAC. Connect the Bridge’s clock output (96kHz) to the DAC and set the Sync Source to WClk. The DAC locks and the system is happy.

If you play a 24/88.2 file, the Bridge will swap to the 44.1kHz clock input, change its clock output to 88.2kHz, the DAC will re-lock and play.

 

This setup will also work very nicely with our Classic Elgar Plus or Delius DACs, as intended. You can use the NB app to set the Bridge to match the lower data rate capabilities of these older designs.    

 

Clocking can become fiendishly complicated, but the new system definitely cuts a lot of this out."

 

End quote

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21 minutes ago, The Computer Audiophile said:

I got some help from dCS on this one:

 

Begin quote

 

"dCS started adding word clock I/O to consumer products in 1999. These features have been on our pro products from 1989.

-          1st Generation 1999 to 2007 – Classic products: Elgar Plus / Delius / Purcell / Verdi / Verona. These have a basic clocking interface where the clock frequency must match the (single wire) sample rate. So, the DAC accepts a 44.1kHz word clock for 44.1 data, or a 96kHz word clock for Dual AES 192kS/s data, for example. Single-wire interfaces are limited to 96 maximum.  

 

-          2nd Generation 2007 to 2015 – Scarlatti / Paganini / Puccini / Debussy. These can multiply the clock frequency by 0.25 / 0.5 / 1 / 2 / 4 to match the sample rate. So, the DAC accepts a clock at 44.1, 88.2 or 176.4kHz for data at 44.1, 88.2, 176.4 or DSD. Similarly with 48, 96 and 192 clock and data rates. More flexible. (This multiplier feature was added to Elgar Plus also.) Computer audio causes a problem here, because the sample rate can change from one file to another. If the sample rate is not an exact multiple of the clock frequency, the DAC will lose lock with the Master Clock. There are ways around this, but they not ideal.

 

-          3rd Generation 2012 to present – Vivaldi / Rossini / Network Bridge. These have our advanced clocking system, featuring 2 word clock inputs that can each lock to word clock at 44.1, 48, 88.2, 96, 176.4 or 192kHz. Now you can drive the Upsampler and DAC with bothbase clock frequencies simultaneously. Yhey can choose the compatible clock automatically and it is “set & forget”.

 

We designed the Network Bridge with the intention of serving all 3 generations or products. You can connect  both clock inputs to a Vivaldi or Rossini Master Clock and drive it with both 44.1 and 48kHz. The asynchronous USB interface regulates the delivery of data from the network to match the Clock frequency, or a multiple, changing clocks inputs as needed.

 

With a 3rd Generation DAC and Upsampler, lock them to both frequencies also. For the earlier DACs and Upsamplers, slave to the Bridge’s word clock output instead. The 96kHz limit here ensures even a 1stGeneration system can keep more of the benefit from locking the Bridge to the Master Clock.

 

So, in ToD’s system, you can play a 24/192 file with the Bridge locked to the Master Clock – it will select the 48kHz Clock output. The data output can be single-wire or Dual AES into the Paganini DAC. Connect the Bridge’s clock output (96kHz) to the DAC and set the Sync Source to WClk. The DAC locks and the system is happy.

If you play a 24/88.2 file, the Bridge will swap to the 44.1kHz clock input, change its clock output to 88.2kHz, the DAC will re-lock and play.

 

This setup will also work very nicely with our Classic Elgar Plus or Delius DACs, as intended. You can use the NB app to set the Bridge to match the lower data rate capabilities of these older designs.    

 

Clocking can become fiendishly complicated, but the new system definitely cuts a lot of this out."

 

End quote

 

Nice! That makes sense.

 

Chris - while you have this line of communication open with dCS, could you ask them this:

  1. What clocks are used for the Ethernet and USB interfaces of the Network Bridge - especially in the forthcoming use case of the NB providing audio output via the USB?
  2. Do these clocks (typically 24 and 25 MHz) have the same quality - i.e. phase noise - as the sample data (i.e. word) clocks?
  3. Related to 2, does the addition of a dCS Master clock also improve the quality of the NB's interface clocks?

While the questions are primarily in relation to the NB (the topic of this thread), they are applicable to the Rossini and Vivaldi too.

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1 hour ago, The Computer Audiophile said:

I got some help from dCS on this one:

 

Begin quote

 

"dCS started adding word clock I/O to consumer products in 1999. These features have been on our pro products from 1989.

-          1st Generation 1999 to 2007 – Classic products: Elgar Plus / Delius / Purcell / Verdi / Verona. These have a basic clocking interface where the clock frequency must match the (single wire) sample rate. So, the DAC accepts a 44.1kHz word clock for 44.1 data, or a 96kHz word clock for Dual AES 192kS/s data, for example. Single-wire interfaces are limited to 96 maximum.  

 

-          2nd Generation 2007 to 2015 – Scarlatti / Paganini / Puccini / Debussy. These can multiply the clock frequency by 0.25 / 0.5 / 1 / 2 / 4 to match the sample rate. So, the DAC accepts a clock at 44.1, 88.2 or 176.4kHz for data at 44.1, 88.2, 176.4 or DSD. Similarly with 48, 96 and 192 clock and data rates. More flexible. (This multiplier feature was added to Elgar Plus also.) Computer audio causes a problem here, because the sample rate can change from one file to another. If the sample rate is not an exact multiple of the clock frequency, the DAC will lose lock with the Master Clock. There are ways around this, but they not ideal.

 

-          3rd Generation 2012 to present – Vivaldi / Rossini / Network Bridge. These have our advanced clocking system, featuring 2 word clock inputs that can each lock to word clock at 44.1, 48, 88.2, 96, 176.4 or 192kHz. Now you can drive the Upsampler and DAC with bothbase clock frequencies simultaneously. Yhey can choose the compatible clock automatically and it is “set & forget”.

 

We designed the Network Bridge with the intention of serving all 3 generations or products. You can connect  both clock inputs to a Vivaldi or Rossini Master Clock and drive it with both 44.1 and 48kHz. The asynchronous USB interface regulates the delivery of data from the network to match the Clock frequency, or a multiple, changing clocks inputs as needed.

 

With a 3rd Generation DAC and Upsampler, lock them to both frequencies also. For the earlier DACs and Upsamplers, slave to the Bridge’s word clock output instead. The 96kHz limit here ensures even a 1stGeneration system can keep more of the benefit from locking the Bridge to the Master Clock.

 

So, in ToD’s system, you can play a 24/192 file with the Bridge locked to the Master Clock – it will select the 48kHz Clock output. The data output can be single-wire or Dual AES into the Paganini DAC. Connect the Bridge’s clock output (96kHz) to the DAC and set the Sync Source to WClk. The DAC locks and the system is happy.

If you play a 24/88.2 file, the Bridge will swap to the 44.1kHz clock input, change its clock output to 88.2kHz, the DAC will re-lock and play.

 

This setup will also work very nicely with our Classic Elgar Plus or Delius DACs, as intended. You can use the NB app to set the Bridge to match the lower data rate capabilities of these older designs.    

 

Clocking can become fiendishly complicated, but the new system definitely cuts a lot of this out."

 

End quote

 

Thank you for your post, this is exactly what I wanted to know. It just proves my concerns: although the Paganini DAC accepts 24/384 through the dual AES inputs, clocking is still limited to 24/96 because the clock output on the Network Bridge supports sample rates up to 96khz (even though the Paganini DAC accepts up to 192 on its clock input).

 

The only way to exploit the full clocking capabilities of two dCS devices from a master clock, regardless of sample rate (up to 24/384), is to have a Network Bridge, a Rossini or Vivaldi DAC and a Vivaldi Master clock.

 

Why Vivaldi clock? Because it is only Master clock capable of outputting both 44.1 and multiples (up to 354.8) and 48 and multiples (up to 384) to 2 devices simultaneously, and the Rossini/Vivaldi are the only DACs capable of accepting both 44.1 and multiples (up to 354.8) and 48 and multiples (up to 384) from a Master clock simultaneously, without limiting the rate to 96 or 192.

 

In practice, the Vivaldi clock would be connected via 2 BNC cables to the Network Bridge clock inputs, and also via 2 BNC cables to the Rossini/Vivaldi DAC clock inputs, and both devices would be synchronized to the Master clock with its auto clocking capabilities, meaning that every sample rate would work flawlessly, without the need to downsample from the Network Bridge.

 

Even the Rossini Clock can’t do that because it has only 3 clock outputs.

 

Such a shame to limit the full benefits only to the Vivaldi clock.

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3 minutes ago, AmusedToD said:

 

Thank you for your post, this is exactly what I wanted to know. It just proves my concerns: although the Paganini DAC accepts 24/384 through the dual AES inputs, clocking is still limited to 24/96 because the clock output on the Network Bridge supports sample rates up to 96khz (even though the Paganini DAC accepts up to 192 on its clock input).

 

Isn't this where the Paganini's multiplier comes in? I may be totally off, but can't it take a 96kHz clock on the input, and multiply by 4 to sync to a 384kHz track on dual-AES?

 

And - I'll shut up now - I don't have personal experience with dCS word clocks. I was just going off my understanding of what Chris relayed.

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59 minutes ago, austinpop said:

 

Isn't this where the Paganini's multiplier comes in? I may be totally off, but can't it take a 96kHz clock on the input, and multiply by 4 to sync to a 384kHz track on dual-AES?

 

And - I'll shut up now - I don't have personal experience with dCS word clocks. I was just going off my understanding of what Chris relayed.

 

Well, not exactly. The Network Bridge can output up to 96 on its clock output (If you read the post by @The Computer Audiophile  carefully, you will see that dCS recommends slaving the NB to an external master clock, and then slaving the DAC to the Network Bridge). The problem is the limitation of the NB’s clock output. So you cannot output 24/384 from the dual AES of the NB to the Paganini DAC and have the clocks synchronized because the clock output of the NB is limited to 96. So you would need to downsample to 24/96 in the NB’s settings.

 

The only way to have 24/384 fully synchronized to an external master clock is to have a Vivaldi clock and a Rossini/Vivaldi DAC. 

 

So even though the Paganini DAC supports up to 192 on its single clock input, the problem is the limitation of the clock output on the Network Bridge. I can’t see the rationale for limiting the clock output to 96 only if older dCS DACs are capable of up to 192 on their clock inputs. This way dCS is basically forcing us to buy a Vivaldi Master clock and/or Rossini/Vivaldi DAC to experience high res files with high sample rates that are fully synchronized to a Master clock without downsampling, even though some older DACs like the Paganini accept up to 192 on the clock input.

 

The logical choice would be limiting the clock output on the Network Bridge to 192, as this would insure full synchronization of the Paganini DAC up to 24/192. So if one wishes to play high res files through the Network Bridge and have a Paganini DAC slaved to the NB’s clock output (like myself), downsapling to 24/96 is the only option.

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8 minutes ago, AmusedToD said:

 

Well, not exactly. The Network Bridge can output up to 96 on its clock output (If you read the post by @The Computer Audiophile  carefully, you will see that dCS recommends slaving the NB to an external master clock, and then slaving the DAC to the Network Bridge). The problem is the limitation of the NB’s clock output. So you cannot output 24/384 from the dual AES of the NB to the Paganini DAC and have the clocks synchronized because the clock output of the NB is limited to 96. So you would need to downsample to 24/96 in the NB’s settings.

 

The only way to have 24/384 fully synchronized to an external master clock is to have a Vivaldi clock and a Rossini/Vivaldi DAC. 

 

I did read the post very carefully. The clock rate does not need to equal the sample rate. The way I read this below, the DAC will work with a variety of clock rates, as long as the sample rate is a 0.25 / 0.5 / 1 / 2 / 4x multiple of the clock.

 

2 hours ago, The Computer Audiophile said:

 2nd Generation 2007 to 2015 – Scarlatti / Paganini / Puccini / Debussy. These can multiply the clock frequency by 0.25 / 0.5 / 1 / 2 / 4 to match the sample rate.

 

Since 384 = 96 x 4, why do you think this won't work?

 

 

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15 minutes ago, austinpop said:

 

I did read the post very carefully. The clock rate does not need to equal the sample rate. The way I read this below, the DAC will work with a variety of clock rates, as long as the sample rate is a 0.25 / 0.5 / 1 / 2 / 4x multiple of the clock.

 

 

Since 384 = 96 x 4, why do you think this won't work?

 

 

 

In the NB - Paganini DAC setup with an external master clock, it will work like this:

 

2 BNC clock cables from 2 Master clock outputs to 2 clock inputs on the Network Bridge. This way all sample rates are covered up to 44.1 x 4 and 48 x 4. This means the NB is fully synchronized to the Master clock.

 

1 BNC cable from the NB clock output to the single clock input on the Paganini DAC. This means the Paganini is slaved to the NB, which in turn is slaved to the Master clock.

 

However, even though you can output the same 24/384 to the Paganini though the dual AES connection (and such file will be played by the DAC in full resolution), you won’t be able to have the clock of the DAC synchronized to the clock of the NB (which is synchronized to the Master clock) because the single clock output of the NB is limited to 96! 

 

In other words, a 24/384 file played back through the NB into a Paganini DAC via the dual AES connection will be reproduced by the Paganini, but only if the clock of the Paganini is not synced to the clock of the NB. If you want them synced, the maximum resolution is 24/96 because the NB’s clock output is limited to 96.

 

 

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7 minutes ago, AmusedToD said:

 

In the NB - Paganini DAC setup with an external master clock, it will work like this:

 

2 BNC clock cables from 2 Master clock outputs to 2 clock inputs on the Network Bridge. This way all sample rates are covered up to 44.1 x 4 and 48 x 4. This means the NB is fully synchronized to the Master clock.

 

1 BNC cable from the NB clock output to the single clock input on the Paganini DAC. This means the Paganini is slaved to the NB, which in turn is slaved to the Master clock.

 

However, even though you can output the same 24/384 to the Paganini though the dual AES connection (and such file will be played by the DAC in full resolution), you won’t be able to have the clock of the DAC synchronized to the clock of the NB (which is synchronized to the Master clock) because the single clock output of the NB is limited to 96! 

 

In other words, a 24/384 file played back through the NB into a Paganini DAC via the dual AES connection will be reproduced by the Paganini, but only if the clock of the Paganini is not synced to the clock of the NB. If you want them synced, the maximum resolution is 24/96 because the NB’s clock output is limited to 96.

 

 

So the Paganini won't multiply the clock signal like dCS says it will?

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28 minutes ago, The Computer Audiophile said:

So the Paganini won't multiply the clock signal like dCS says it will?

 

I think what they wanted to say it that the Paganini will multiply the 44.1 and 48 rates received from a master clock (because this is the data rate that the Master clock sends, it doesn’t send 96 or 192 or higher, it always sends 44.1 or 48 and then the DAC multiplies it to match the sample rate of the digital file, provided it’s 0.25 / 0.5 / 1 / 2 / 4 of the clock frequency rate. And this is absolutely true. But when connected to the Network Bridge clock output instead of a Master clock, I think it cannot lock to a rate higher than 24/96 because this is the maximum the NB’s clock output sends, and in this particular setup the Paganini does not lock to a master clock but to the Network Bridge. 

 

Perhaps I got all this wrong. If I got it wrong (and I really wish I have for it would make my life much easier), then the Paganini will multiple the 96 rate from the NB’s output and a 24/384 file will be played while the Paganini clock is synced to the NB clock.

 

But I don’t think this will happen without downsampling to 24/96 in the NB settings. 

 

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43 minutes ago, AmusedToD said:

 

I think what they wanted to say it that the Paganini will multiply the 44.1 and 48 rates received from a master clock (because this is the data rate that the Master clock sends, it doesn’t send 96 or 192 or higher, it always sends 44.1 or 48 and then the DAC multiplies it to match the sample rate of the digital file, provided it’s 0.25 / 0.5 / 1 / 2 / 4 of the clock frequency rate. And this is absolutely true. But when connected to the Network Bridge clock output instead of a Master clock, I think it cannot lock to a rate higher than 24/96 because this is the maximum the NB’s clock output sends, and in this particular setup the Paganini does not lock to a master clock but to the Network Bridge. 

 

Perhaps I got all this wrong. If I got it wrong (and I really wish I have for it would make my life much easier), then the Paganini will multiple the 96 rate from the NB’s output and a 24/384 file will be played while the Paganini clock is synced to the NB clock.

 

But I don’t think this will happen without downsampling to 24/96 in the NB settings. 

 

 

We’re just curious, but you’re the one on the verge of buying a Paganini!

 

If it were me, I’d pick up the phone and call them up and ask them directly, rather than try to parse what their words meant.

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3 minutes ago, austinpop said:

 

We’re just curious, but you’re the one on the verge of buying a Paganini!

 

If it were me, I’d pick up the phone and call them up and ask them directly, rather than try to parse what their words meant.

 

I sent them an email a week ago and they never responded. Not to happy about making international calls for something they can clear out in an email.

 

I bought the Paganini already, expecting delivery next week. The NB is already in my possession, but can’t use it as I have no DAC at the moment.

 

The sample rate thing is no deal breaker for me, I will be more than happy with redbook knowing the performance level of dCS gear. But it would be nice to have the ability of smooth high res playback and have the clocks synced while doing that. I guess I will have to settle with 24/96, unless they increase the clock output of the NB to 192 (to match the Paganini clock input).

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28 minutes ago, AmusedToD said:

 

I sent them an email a week ago and they never responded. Not to happy about making international calls for something they can clear out in an email.

 

I bought the Paganini already, expecting delivery next week. The NB is already in my possession, but can’t use it as I have no DAC at the moment.

 

The sample rate thing is no deal breaker for me, I will be more than happy with redbook knowing the performance level of dCS gear. But it would be nice to have the ability of smooth high res playback and have the clocks synced while doing that. I guess I will have to settle with 24/96, unless they increase the clock output of the NB to 192 (to match the Paganini clock input).

 

So it’s moot at this point.

 

Please update us with the answer once you’ve tried it with a DXD track, with the NB clock connected to the Paganini. Either it’ll work, or it won’t.

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Just now, austinpop said:

 

So it’s moot at this point.

 

Please update us with the answer once you’ve tried it with a DXD track, with the NB clock connected to the Paganini. Either it’ll work, or it won’t.

 

Exactly! And I most certainly will, no way to know unless I try. However this will be a direct NB - Paganini clock connection, without a Master clock. 

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I am tentatively thinking about upgrading my current 'digital from end', which is currently and mR and Mutec MC3+USB.  I have pretty much decided that I will be getting a Mutec REF10 to accompany my existing MC3+USB.  This then leaves the mR as very much the week link in this chain I suspect.  OK, the mR could be replaced by the uR or SOtM Ultra kit.  An alternative I was thinking about would be the Network Bridge.  One dealer I have spoken to in the UK reports that the Network Bridge gets a decent lift in sound quality with an external clock.  So one obvious thing to consider would be to use the word clock output of the REF10 fed Mutec MC3+USB to feed the Network Bridge.

 

Mindful of the issues with clock rates, clock multipliers and all the rest of it, would a REF10/MC3/Network Bridge set up work as it should?  As far as I can work out, it should work fine, but one thing I am learning is that this the reference and word clock topic is far more complex that it first appears, so I though I'd double check.

Windows 11 PC, Roon, HQPlayer, Focus Fidelity convolutions, iFi Zen Stream, Paul Hynes SR4, Mutec REF10, Mutec MC3+USB, Devialet 1000Pro, KEF Blade.  Plus Pro-Ject Signature 12 TT for playing my 'legacy' vinyl collection. Desktop system; RME ADI-2 DAC fs, Meze Empyrean headphones.

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Confused,

Hi from an exDevialet co-owner :)

 

I now have dCS NB (after owning N10) and the sound is sublime. Drives a TotalDAC D1six through AES, Roon Rock on NUC7i5 as server. 

 

I tried it with the Rossini clock but did not hear any improvements. NB sounds very jitter free as is. Simple is better I guess. It even sounded better all around compared to a Vivaldi Upsampler to my ears, but ymmv.

 

REF10/MC3/NB setup should work but might be an overkill. This thing is so good on its own.

 

If you can clock your DAC as well (like Vivaldi DAC) the story will be very different I guess.

 

Cheers...

Kii Three + BXT, dCS Network Bridge, Astell&Kern SP2000, Stromtank 2500, Roon Nucleus, Echole Power Cables, Mogami + Bocchino AES, SOTM Switch + CAT7 + CAT8

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Well, I see no reason why it shouldn’t work. But I think you need to wait for the USB output on the NB to be enabled by the announced software update (unless the Mutec MC3+USB features other digital inputs as well, I am not that familiar with the product). You should also check how the MC3’s word clock distribution really works. The NB has 2 clock inputs and those can receive 44.1 or 48 rates and then multiply them to match the sample rates of the files your play through the Bridge.

 

I think someone already tried the MC3 with the NB and reported no sonic benefits, but the Ref10 connected to a MC3 would be a different beast altogether.

 

I believe the clocks inside the NB are superior to those inside the MC3, unless you use an external reference clock like the Ref10 on the MC3.

 

Best thing would be to demo it all before making a buying decision. Or you can consider getting a used dCS master clock with a 10Mhz input and attach the Ref10 to it, that might be the ultimate proposition.

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8 minutes ago, KunterK said:

I tried it with the Rossini clock but did not hear any improvements. NB sounds very jitter free as is. Simple is better I guess. It even sounded better all around compared to a Vivaldi Upsampler to my ears, but ymmv.

 

Interesting findings. Does your TotalDac have a word clock input? If it doesn’t, then using a Master clock on the NB itself (without syncing the DAC at the same time) is probably the reason why you heard no meaningful upgrade, because the clocks inside the NB are already excellent.

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1 minute ago, AmusedToD said:

 

Interesting findings. Does your TotalDac have a word clock input? If it doesn’t, then using a Master clock on the NB itself (without syncing the DAC at the same time) is probably the reason why you heard no meaningful upgrade, because the clocks inside the NB are already excellent.

Exactly my point... :)

 

I did not try the Vivaldi Clock though, which might be superior to Rossini Clock. And I have no experience with the MC3

 

NB provides the best digital I heard in my system so far... 

 

Just updated my signature too... I guess things have moved so fast for me...

Kii Three + BXT, dCS Network Bridge, Astell&Kern SP2000, Stromtank 2500, Roon Nucleus, Echole Power Cables, Mogami + Bocchino AES, SOTM Switch + CAT7 + CAT8

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10 minutes ago, KunterK said:

Exactly my point... :)

 

I did not try the Vivaldi Clock though, which might be superior to Rossini Clock. And I have no experience with the MC3

 

NB provides the best digital I heard in my system so far... 

 

Just updated my signature too... I guess things have moved so fast for me...

 

Perhaps, but without slaving the DAC to it I think it doesn't make much sense.

 

You have some impressive components in your setup (Rockport Altair, Gryphon, etc.). Wow!

 

Speaking of which, did you find the i5 Intel NUC to be sufficient as a Roon server, do you upsample in Roon/HQ player and did you place the NUC on a linear PSU or not? I wonder whether a high end server improves on the Network Bridge at all or not, in which case a NUC would do it.

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51 minutes ago, AmusedToD said:

 

Best thing would be to demo it all before making a buying decision. Or you can consider getting a used dCS master clock with a 10Mhz input and attach the Ref10 to it, that might be the ultimate proposition.

Absolutely, the good thing about the Network Bridge is that it is one thing I could easy get for home demo, I have a good relationship with a dealer that has a demo unit in store.  I would have a problem getting hold of Sonore or SOtM alternatives for comparison though, not an easy thing to do in the UK.  BTW, the Mutec MC3+USB also has AES/EBU (XLR) input, so a Network Bridge + Mutec MC3+USB set up could be a USB free solution.

Windows 11 PC, Roon, HQPlayer, Focus Fidelity convolutions, iFi Zen Stream, Paul Hynes SR4, Mutec REF10, Mutec MC3+USB, Devialet 1000Pro, KEF Blade.  Plus Pro-Ject Signature 12 TT for playing my 'legacy' vinyl collection. Desktop system; RME ADI-2 DAC fs, Meze Empyrean headphones.

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