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dCS Network Bridge


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1 minute ago, austinpop said:

Pure genius, that. Bravo!

I guess I don't blame them on MQA support because MQA has to sign off on the implementation and the MQA process doesn't sound exactly streamlined.

 

I'm hoping they can do a better job telling us when the USB output will be available.  And I really hope the timeline isn't linked to the MQA stuff.

Pareto Audio AMD 7700 Server --> Berkeley Alpha USB --> Jeff Rowland Aeris --> Jeff Rowland 625 S2 --> Focal Utopia 3 Diablos with 2 x Focal Electra SW 1000 BE subs

 

i7-6700K/Windows 10  --> EVGA Nu Audio Card --> Focal CMS50's 

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1 minute ago, rickca said:

I guess I don't blame them on MQA support because MQA has to sign off on the implementation and the MQA process doesn't sound exactly streamlined.

 

I'm hoping they can do a better job telling us when the USB output will be available.  And I really hope the timeline isn't linked to the MQA stuff.

 

Perhaps the USB out update will not be linked to the MQA update, in which case we might get it sooner.

 

Personally, I don’t care about the USB output as my DAC does not have an USB input. On the other hand, I doubt it will be sonically superior to the dual AES connection, but this is strictly when used with dCS DACs which are designed to sound best over dual AES.

 

I think enabling the USB output on the NB is for the purpose of making the product more accessible to the general market, including people that use good quality non-dCS DACs that have superior USB inputs (Chord Dave comes to mind).

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19 minutes ago, austinpop said:

 

dCS may be whizzes at digital audio, but they seem to lack even the most basic marketing skills. To wit:

  1. They successfully avoided giving a precise timeline during the entire development cycle of their firmware update. That's fine, some grumbling, dealers soothing with phrases like - this is dCS, they take their time to do it right, blah, blah.
  2. Then, they expose a timeline - see Darko, exhibit A - just weeks prior to the claimed release
  3. THEN, they miss the deadline, and now go back to a vague timeline.

Pure genius, that. Bravo! 9_9

Even TAS had the info, along with other quotes from the dCS principals:

 

http://www.theabsolutesound.com/articles/dcs-launches-mqa-support-across-product-ranges/ 

Steve Schaffer

Grimm MU1 / dCS Vivaldi Upsampler - APEX DAC - Clock / Spectral DMC-30SV preamp / Spectral Anniversary monoblocks / Wilson Audio Alexia V /  Wilson Lōkē subs / Shunyata Everest / Shunyata Omega interconnects, power cables, Ethernet / Shunyata Altaira / Uptone EtherREGEN switch / Cybershaft OP21A-D / Uptone JS2 LPS / HRS racks - Vortex footers - damping plates

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Too bad users can't hold their feet to the fire.

Steve Schaffer

Grimm MU1 / dCS Vivaldi Upsampler - APEX DAC - Clock / Spectral DMC-30SV preamp / Spectral Anniversary monoblocks / Wilson Audio Alexia V /  Wilson Lōkē subs / Shunyata Everest / Shunyata Omega interconnects, power cables, Ethernet / Shunyata Altaira / Uptone EtherREGEN switch / Cybershaft OP21A-D / Uptone JS2 LPS / HRS racks - Vortex footers - damping plates

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This seems to be a recurring theme with the MQA Co., Pvt. Ltd.

 

Just about every product that licenses MQA seems to have come out after a string of MQA-imposed delays, often just prior to announced release. You'd think these guys were mounting a manned mission to Mars or something.

 

To paraphrase someone:

dCS, if you're listening,  I hope you're able to <fix the last-minute changes MQA are demanding>. I think you will probably be rewarded mightily by our press.

 

:D

 

Actually, what would be nice is if they released the NB USB update separately, if this MQA delay drags on.

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29 minutes ago, AmusedToD said:

Personally, I don’t care about the USB output as my DAC does not have an USB input. On the other hand, I doubt it will be sonically superior to the dual AES connection, but this is strictly when used with dCS DACs which are designed to sound best over dual AES.

 

I doubt the USB implementation would sound as good as since AES for that matter. I know that I will be using AES between dCS NB and my Metrum Onyx should I choose to ever spend that much on a bridge.

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8 minutes ago, George Hincapie said:

 

I doubt the USB implementation would sound as good as since AES for that matter. I know that I will be using AES between dCS NB and my Metrum Onyx should I choose to ever spend that much on a bridge.

 

 Interesting the comment of Antipodes Audio regarding AES:

 

"With poor quality servers, playing over the network to an Ethernet DAC can make sense, but with an excellent server playback via USB sounds clearly better.

SPDIF and AES3 can compete with USB if done properly, but will generally sound softer and warmer due to higher jitter, and some people will prefer that in some contexts. We expect to move away from providing SPDIF and AES3 over time as customers are preferring to use higher bit-rate file formats, including upsampling their ripped CD files. SPDIF and AES3 interfaces are much less suited to transferring high bit-rates than USB and Ethernet, because they don't have the bandwidth to "square out" a high bit-rate signal."

 

Matt

"I want to know why the musicians are on stage, not where". (John Farlowe)

 

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18 hours ago, matthias said:

 

 Interesting the comment of Antipodes Audio regarding AES:

 

"With poor quality servers, playing over the network to an Ethernet DAC can make sense, but with an excellent server playback via USB sounds clearly better.

SPDIF and AES3 can compete with USB if done properly, but will generally sound softer and warmer due to higher jitter, and some people will prefer that in some contexts. We expect to move away from providing SPDIF and AES3 over time as customers are preferring to use higher bit-rate file formats, including upsampling their ripped CD files. SPDIF and AES3 interfaces are much less suited to transferring high bit-rates than USB and Ethernet, because they don't have the bandwidth to "square out" a high bit-rate signal."

 

Matt

Agreed, interesting comments.  It is a case of generalisations though, the quote itself states 'will generally sound softer'.  The point being that with USB being asynchronous and with AES3 carrying a clock signal to be used by the DAC, they are different beasts. 

 

Taking the Network Bridge as a specific example, I understand it comes with a decent internal clock, and on top of this there are some users that have reported good results when feeding the Network Bridge with a Mutec REF10/MC3+ generated word clock signal.  So in theory, this should mean that the Network Bridge is outputting via AES3 a very high quality / very low jitter clock output that the receiving DAC will hopefully make very good use of.  So done like this, it is fair to speculate that although AES3 'will generally sound softer', when that AES3 signal has the benefit of a REF10 clock then the end result should be excellent.  Via USB, it is a little harder to understand the benefit of decent clocking, when the DAC's own clock is in control of the asynchronous feed.  (although the 'Trifecta' thread has much subjective evidence that improving the clock in a USB feed also yields good results, it is just easier to see how clocks provide an upstream benefit when AES3 is used)

 

So in terms of a generalisation, I think there is a lot of truth in the Antipodes quote, but when you look at specific system topographies, things can be very different.

Windows 11 PC, Roon, HQPlayer, Focus Fidelity convolutions, iFi Zen Stream, Paul Hynes SR4, Mutec REF10, Mutec MC3+USB, Devialet 1000Pro, KEF Blade.  Plus Pro-Ject Signature 12 TT for playing my 'legacy' vinyl collection. Desktop system; RME ADI-2 DAC fs, Meze Empyrean headphones.

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The dCS bridge and the dCS DACs have the great advantage to offer double AES outputs/inputs and are able to send 24/384 and DSD128.

In this context double AES may be as good as USB. 

I am very curious how the upcoming USB output of the bridge will perform vs. the double AES.

 

Matt

"I want to know why the musicians are on stage, not where". (John Farlowe)

 

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4 minutes ago, matthias said:

The dCS bridge and the dCS DACs have the great advantage to offer double AES outputs/inputs and are able to send 24/384 and DSD128.

In this context double AES may be as good as USB. 

I am very curious how the upcoming USB output of the bridge will perform vs. the double AES.

 

Matt

 

I don't get this at all. I will *never* use USB over SPDIF Coax or AES. I have tried it and much prefer other connection types. Each to their own and apologies for reading like a dinosaur, but I have yet to experience USB that sounds better to my ears than SPDIF Coax.

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2 minutes ago, George Hincapie said:

 

I don't get this at all. I will *never* use USB over SPDIF Coax or AES. I have tried it and much prefer other connection types. Each to their own and apologies for reading like a dinosaur, but I have yet to experience USB that sounds better to my ears than SPDIF Coax.

 

You are neglecting to mention the influence that the cable can make. I am using an outstanding USB cable by Sablon, so that dictates what input to use.

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5 minutes ago, toetapaudio said:

 

You are neglecting to mention the influence that the cable can make. I am using an outstanding USB cable by Sablon, so that dictates what input to use.

 

No I'm not, I always use the best I can afford and assume others do likewise. And I've tried the Sablon USB cable and returned it. The performance was no better than cables costing significantly less.

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3 minutes ago, George Hincapie said:

 

No I'm not, I always use the best I can afford and assume others do likewise. And I've tried the Sablon USB cable and returned it. The performance was no better than cables costing significantly less.

You have tried the Sablon Reserva Elite? What are the other cables and dac you are using? My findings are the reverse of what you are saying?

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I think it is interesting that Antipodes gets rid of both AES and SPDIF outputs with the new version of the DX.

The question is how well USB is implemented. A good example is the Phison PD2.

 

Matt

 

 

 

"I want to know why the musicians are on stage, not where". (John Farlowe)

 

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4 minutes ago, matthias said:

 

There are other nice cables like the Phasure Lush or the CAD.

Did you compare?

All the CAD stuff is great, so I’m sure the cables are good as well. Not compared the CAD usb to Sablon yet, but I’m really impressed with how much difference the Sablon has made. I’m not the only one impressed with it, see users reports on What’s Best.

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56 minutes ago, toetapaudio said:

You have tried the Sablon Reserva Elite? What are the other cables and dac you are using? My findings are the reverse of what you are saying?

 

Sablon Reserva, not Elite - my DAC required USB power, so Mark said the Elite wouldn't work. Was still £550 IIRC.

 

I use 'The Interconnect Statement' reference SPDIF cable from Nene Valley Audio: https://www.nvahifi.co.uk/interconnects/

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51 minutes ago, wdw said:

From the ROON Community dCS thread, November 12th is the new rumoured date for Rossini (and hopefully the Bridge) firmware update

 

https://community.roonlabs.com/t/dcs-rossini-tidal-and-mqa/17987/29

 

According to the dCS announcement from 19th October the Rossini update is one month earlier than the Bridge update, so maybe now December 13th for the Bridge?

The world would be much better without MQA.

 

Matt

"I want to know why the musicians are on stage, not where". (John Farlowe)

 

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