William Lowe of Audioquest places both feet in his mouth

[Jud]

And what would that way be?

 

Have I wasted the 2.5 years and countless dollars with my goal of improving the SQ of my system? My perception is that there has been a huge improvement. Am I deluding myself? If not, then what mechanism is at work that allows this improvement over time?

 

Larry

 

That would be telling.

 

I'd like to save a little something for that article I keep threatening to write, though if I don't have it done by, say, the end of 2016, I'll just go ahead and spill the beans.

 

You keep directing this to the wrong person.

 

Happy to hear it.

[witchdoctor]

Remove the sighted bias (close your eyes) and you have a totally different experience with the McGurk effect video. Add to that you have the correct answer as to what is being said. You can even do it while the video is playing.

 

Again in my offer to Witchdoctor I didn't specify the type of testing. Only that it be ears only.

 

OK, sign me up. Please send me two pairs of interconnects, one that we already know is directional like say, Nordost. Here is a link to the cables I want to test, you burn in one pair and not another. two 1 meter pair of the RCA's are fine. I do my testing like r-w, over an extended period so may need to hang onto them for a year or so. Here are the cables you should send:

 

Nordost Valhalla 2 Reference cables | Stereophile.com

 

Thanks a lot, you are a stand up guy!

[4est]

To me, the idea that the learned skill of reading lips is akin to sighted bias seems ludicrous at best. Of course we can be "tricked", but I have yet to learn what "that shiny new cable" sound is well enough to expect something in particular. I also find it very suspect that you feel the need to start this thread in the first place. That is not to mention the contrived monetary challenges and the insistence that "science/engineering" is behind you in the concept that one doesn't need to listen to know. As I understand it, most of the respected audio companies listen to their gear as well as measure. As a business owner, I would never expend valuable resources unless it furthered my goals.

Remove the sighted bias (close your eyes) and you have a totally different experience with the McGurk effect video. Add to that you have the correct answer as to what is being said. You can even do it while the video is playing.

 

Again in my offer to Witchdoctor I didn't specify the type of testing. Only that it be ears only.

[christopher3393]

OK, sign me up. Please send me two pairs of interconnects, one that we already know is directional like say, Nordost. Here is a link to the cables I want to test, you burn in one pair and not another. two 1 meter pair of the RCA's are fine. I do my testing like r-w, over an extended period so may need to hang onto them for a year or so. Here are the cables you should send:

 

Nordost Valhalla 2 Reference cables | Stereophile.com

 

Thanks a lot, you are a stand up guy!

 

Interesting: the author of the Stereophile review is a mechanical engineer who worked at Sandia National Labs for 25 years. An unusual resume for a subjective reviewer?

[lmitche]

That would be telling.

 

I'd like to save a little something for that article I keep threatening to write, though if I don't have it done by, say, the end of 2016, I'll just go ahead and spill the beans.

 

 

 

Happy to hear it.

No problem, I am less interested in the mechanism than outcome. Does your secret mechanism account for increment improvements in the perceived sound quality of a system over time where "measurements" are only done by ear?

[Sal1950]

Interesting: the author of the Stereophile review is a mechanical engineer who worked at Sandia National Labs for 25 years. An unusual resume for a subjective reviewer?

I'll give ya a hint, he's getting paid.

Exactly in what form of remuneration and from whom might be the big question.

[Jud]

No problem, I am less interested in the mechanism than outcome. Does your secret mechanism account for increment improvements in the perceived sound quality of a system over time where "measurements" are only done by ear?

 

Yup.

[mansr]

Interesting: the author of the Stereophile review is a mechanical engineer who worked at Sandia National Labs for 25 years. An unusual resume for a subjective reviewer?

Maybe the radiation did a number on him.

[Jud]

Interesting: the author of the Stereophile review is a mechanical engineer who worked at Sandia National Labs for 25 years. An unusual resume for a subjective reviewer?

 

I dunno, Anthony "Sonic Checklist" Cordesman, an Absolute Sound mainstay for years, worked for the Defense Department and used to appear on TV as an analyst during the first Iraq War.

 

For that matter, speaking of cables, Pierre Sprey of Mapleshade is an aeronautical engineer and built quite a reputation working in the Defense Department in the early 1960s leading or criticizing various aircraft projects. (He criticized the "gold plating" and specsmanship that characterized defense procurement - not only at that time, of course - and championed planes that were suited for the particular missions they were supposed to carry out.) Perhaps the most famous plane he championed was the A10 "Warthog," a slow, simple aircraft the Pentagon "suits" and defense contractors hated but pilots loved that was perfectly suited as a "tank buster." The Pentagon and contractors spent decades trying to kill production, but demand from airmen wouldn't let them. See, e.g., Why the A-10 Warthog Is Such a Badass Plane.

 

Edit: Sorry, got my dates wrong - mid-60s to 1970.

[lmitche]

Yup.

Good.

[witchdoctor]

I dunno, Anthony "Sonic Checklist" Cordesman, an Absolute Sound mainstay for years, worked for the Defense Department and used to appear on TV as an analyst during the first Iraq War.

 

For that matter, speaking of cables, Pierre Sprey of Mapleshade is an aeronautical engineer and built quite a reputation working in the Defense Department in the early 1960s leading or criticizing various aircraft projects. (He criticized the "gold plating" and specsmanship that characterized defense procurement - not only at that time, of course - and championed planes that were suited for the particular missions they were supposed to carry out.) Perhaps the most famous plane he championed was the A10 "Warthog," a slow, simple aircraft the Pentagon "suits" and defense contractors hated but pilots loved that was perfectly suited as a "tank buster." The Pentagon and contractors spent decades trying to kill production, but demand from airmen wouldn't let them. See, e.g., Why the A-10 Warthog Is Such a Badass Plane.

 

Edit: Sorry, got my dates wrong - mid-60s to 1970.

 

Pierre has been one of the most ethical vendors I have ever worked with and his products are wonderful. Very value oriented I might add. When I called him to buy speaker stands he suggested I buy the one that was LESS expensive because it would work better in my room. The Bedrock stands are great as are his cables and other components IMO.

 

Check out the pic with my L-R channels on the bedrock stands and the center speaker on his isolation system:

[plissken]

OK, sign me up. Please send me two pairs of interconnects, one that we already know is directional like say, Nordost. Here is a link to the cables I want to test, you burn in one pair and not another. two 1 meter pair of the RCA's are fine. I do my testing like r-w, over an extended period so may need to hang onto them for a year or so. Here are the cables you should send:

 

Nordost Valhalla 2 Reference cables | Stereophile.com

 

Thanks a lot, you are a stand up guy!

 

Remember your link to Nordost says the burned in cable became 'directional'.

[witchdoctor]

Remember your link to Nordost says the burned in cable became 'directional'.

 

NP, you burn in a pair and they will become directional and if I can't tell what the direction is I lose.

[plissken]

NP, you burn in a pair and they will become directional and if I can't tell what the direction is I lose.

 

Nordost didn't say Nordost cables become directional. They said 'cables' become directional:

 

"When cables are manufactured they do not have any directionality. However, as they break in, they acquire directionality."

 

I'm sending you 1 meter RCA's.... Two burned in and Two not. You have 30 days for evaluation. Everything else is up to you.

 

Either they make a big enough difference in 30 days or they don't.

[witchdoctor]

Nordost didn't say Nordost cables become directional. They said 'cables' become directional:

 

"When cables are manufactured they do not have any directionality. However, as they break in, they acquire directionality."

 

I'm sending you 1 meter RCA's.... Two burned in and Two not. You have 30 days for evaluation. Everything else is up to you.

 

Either they make a big enough difference in 30 days or they don't.

 

This exercise has to be entertaining for the both of us, don't be a "cheap basterd" now ok? (isn't that what you said?)

[plissken]

This exercise has to be entertaining for the both of us, don't be a "cheap basterd" now ok? (isn't that what you said?)

 

Not being cheap at all. You posted a claim and I'm testing the claim. You set the standard. Don't be upset that you are held to it.

[Jud]

NP, you burn in a pair and they will become directional and if I can't tell what the direction is I lose.

 

Nordost didn't say Nordost cables become directional. They said 'cables' become directional:

 

"When cables are manufactured they do not have any directionality. However, as they break in, they acquire directionality."

 

I'm sending you 1 meter RCA's.... Two burned in and Two not. You have 30 days for evaluation. Everything else is up to you.

 

Either they make a big enough difference in 30 days or they don't.

 

Strikes me that I was too restrictive before when I said there's a way around the echoic memory limitation. There are at least two ways I can think of, and of course possibly more I haven't thought of.

 

Witchy, if you decide to take this on, here's what I'd ask you to do:

 

Using well recorded mono music (I've always liked Steve Hoffman's DCC gold disc remastering of the Beach Boys' Pet Sounds and selections from the Beatles' 2009 mono remasters), hook up a cable from one pair on the left channel, and a cable from the other pair on the right channel. See if you can hear any difference (particularly in soundstage, which is the main difference I noticed when hooking up two different cables using this procedure, one on the left channel and the other on the right). That way you aren't using echoic memory at all, you're listening to both simultaneously. If you do hear differences, flip the cables from one channel to the other and listen again, to see if the differences follow the cables.

 

Edit: See here - http://www.computeraudiophile.com/f8-general-forum/unsolicited-advice-nordost-alternative-b-28683/

[witchdoctor]

Strikes me that I was too restrictive before when I said there's a way around the echoic memory limitation. There are at least two ways I can think of, and of course possibly more I haven't thought of.

 

Witchy, if you decide to take this on, here's what I'd ask you to do:

 

Using well recorded mono music (I've always liked Steve Hoffman's DCC gold disc remastering of the Beach Boys' Pet Sounds and selections from the Beatles' 2009 mono remasters), hook up a cable from one pair on the left channel, and a cable from the other pair on the right channel. See if you can hear any difference (particularly in soundstage, which is the main difference I noticed when hooking up two different cables using this procedure, one on the left channel and the other on the right). That way you aren't using echoic memory at all, you're listening to both simultaneously. If you do hear differences, flip the cables from one channel to the other and listen again, to see if the differences follow the cables.

 

Edit: See here - http://www.computeraudiophile.com/f8-general-forum/unsolicited-advice-nordost-alternative-b-28683/

 

Thanks, I will give it a try if plisskin ponies up for those nordost vallhalla reference 2, but i am not holding my breath.

 

BTW, I liked the link you posted, that Omega Mikro looks just like my Mapleshade Excalibur, no surprise since Pierre is part of both companies.

 

I use active speakers so using your method would work with power cords too, just hook up a different brand to each speaker.

[plissken]

Thanks, I will give it a try if plisskin ponies up for those nordost vallhalla reference 2, but i am not holding my breath.

 

Please, hold your breath. Based on the lack of you understanding of your own quoted sources you aren't getting that much oxygen anyways.

 

You send me $16,000 and I'll get those 1 meter cables ordered right away. You still won't have to send $100 to charity ;-)

[Jud]

Please, hold your breath. Based on the lack of you understanding of your own quoted sources you aren't getting that much oxygen anyways.

 

Did you ever get "Does not play well with others" on your report card?

[witchdoctor]

Please, hold your breath. Based on the lack of you understanding of your own quoted sources you aren't getting that much oxygen anyways.

 

You send me $16,000 and I'll get those 1 meter cables ordered right away. You still won't have to send $100 to charity ;-)

 

No hard feelings, I am sure you will find another victim to splatter soon. In the meantime you still have the letterman video I posted.

[plissken]

Did you ever get "Does not play well with others" on your report card?

 

He can order $16,000 worth of what ever cable he likes and have them dropped shipped here and I'll burn in one set and send them on. Same bet as before.

[plissken]

No hard feelings, I am sure you will find another victim to splatter soon. In the meantime you still have the letterman video I posted.

 

Certainly not. My point stands that you have zero faith in your convictions. I'll let our collective back and forth stand on merit.

 

I'll just add one more corpse to the pile.

[plissken]

..

[Jud]

I'll just add one more corpse to the pile.

 

"We gather here today to honor Plissken - a sweet, gentle man...."