Jud Posted August 16, 2016 Share Posted August 16, 2016 What are 'THESE' tests? Blinded A/B audio tests. I pointed out one SPECIFIC test: 128kbps MP3 vs 1411kpbs redbook PCM. It shows that bias controlled testing is indeed valid for gaining statistical insight between perception and imagination when it comes to audible differences. If we are being precise, it actually shows something less vague and quite a lot more interesting. Why don't you go try researching in the academic literature as I've suggested? It's fascinating stuff; certainly no reason to be reluctant. One never knows, do one? - Fats Waller The fairest thing we can experience is the mysterious. It is the fundamental emotion which stands at the cradle of true art and true science. - Einstein Computer, Audirvana -> optical Ethernet to Fitlet3 -> Fibbr Alpha Optical USB -> iFi NEO iDSD DAC -> Apollon Audio 1ET400A Mini (Purifi based) -> Vandersteen 3A Signature. Link to comment
Sixxfeet Posted August 16, 2016 Share Posted August 16, 2016 It's too bad that this forum cannot stay on track and without bickering. I way prefer to try things for myself and if I do hear a difference or not, it does not mean that others in another system will or will not. It would be great to hear people that have tried these wall outlets and the aural results. I was staying here to see of I could learn something........ Sent from my Nexus 4 using Tapatalk Link to comment
Jud Posted August 16, 2016 Share Posted August 16, 2016 It's too bad that this forum cannot stay on track and without bickering. I way prefer to try things for myself and if I do hear a difference or not, it does not mean that others in another system will or will not. It would be great to hear people that have tried these wall outlets and the aural results. I was staying here to see of I could learn something........ Sent from my Nexus 4 using Tapatalk My apologies. One never knows, do one? - Fats Waller The fairest thing we can experience is the mysterious. It is the fundamental emotion which stands at the cradle of true art and true science. - Einstein Computer, Audirvana -> optical Ethernet to Fitlet3 -> Fibbr Alpha Optical USB -> iFi NEO iDSD DAC -> Apollon Audio 1ET400A Mini (Purifi based) -> Vandersteen 3A Signature. Link to comment
Sixxfeet Posted August 16, 2016 Share Posted August 16, 2016 My apologies. Accepted[emoji106]. We are back to honor. I'm staying. Sent from my Nexus 4 using Tapatalk Link to comment
wgscott Posted August 16, 2016 Share Posted August 16, 2016 For those who can hear the differences between various grades of electrical outlet, are you also able to hear if one is mis-wired (eg: hot and neutral swapped)? Link to comment
mansr Posted August 16, 2016 Share Posted August 16, 2016 For those who can hear the differences between various grades of electrical outlet, are you also able to hear if one is mis-wired (eg: hot and neutral swapped)? Sometimes this results in a very obvious hum. If plugs are reversible, that's the first thing you check when encountering a hum problem. Link to comment
plissken Posted August 16, 2016 Share Posted August 16, 2016 I am assuming and conjecturing nothing. I am doing the exact opposite, requiring evidence. I am precisely *not assuming* blinded A/B tests are effective in human identification of various sonic characteristics, You are assuming a preconceived condition when you refer to 'disease'. My question is what disease and why would one presume it exists. It's cart before the horse thinking. The reason people can be trained to tell you when they are listening to 128kbps mp3 vs 1411kbps PCM is the various sonic characteristics clue them into there has been a change made. You can't have it both ways. Link to comment
rrwwss52 Posted August 16, 2016 Share Posted August 16, 2016 I'll counter your anecdote with another, that of Steve Jobs. He refused conventional treatment for his cancer, opting for some "alternative" therapy instead. He died. Lots of people die using convention treatments too. Ask an oncologist if he/she would submit him/herself to full dose chemo. It's really case by case based on the type of cancer and level of advancement. Unfortunately, our family has had to deal with cancer treatment questions for multiple family members in the past three years. Link to comment
mansr Posted August 16, 2016 Share Posted August 16, 2016 Lots of people die using convention treatments too. Sure, but that's beside the point. Someone offered a single case as proof that alternative treatments work. Steve Jobs is just as much proof that they don't. The plural of anecdote is not antidote. Link to comment
christopher3393 Posted August 16, 2016 Share Posted August 16, 2016 You are assuming a preconceived condition when you refer to 'disease'. My question is what disease and why would one presume it exists. It's cart before the horse thinking. The reason people can be trained to tell you when they are listening to 128kbps mp3 vs 1411kbps PCM is the various sonic characteristics clue them into there has been a change made. You can't have it both ways. The disease is suffering through unhelpful arguments. The cure is giving it a rest. The topic is a request to find out whether it is worth spending $50 to upgrade an outlet without starting a pissing match. How's that working out? Link to comment
rrwwss52 Posted August 16, 2016 Share Posted August 16, 2016 Sure, but that's beside the point. Someone offered a single case as proof that alternative treatments work. Steve Jobs is just as much proof that they don't. The plural of anecdote is not antidote. Are you speaking from experience? Sometimes neither works. Our experience has been one death (conventional), one in the early stages of treatment (conventional) and one using a blend of alternatives with low dose chemo (remission). You take what you think is your best path and hope you make the right choice. From what I have seen personally with many cancer patients I know (some who have died) is the treatment can be as rough as the disease. Link to comment
rrwwss52 Posted August 16, 2016 Share Posted August 16, 2016 The disease is suffering through unhelpful arguments. The cure is giving it a rest. The topic is a request to find out whether it is worth spending $50 to upgrade an outlet without starting a pissing match. How's that working out? The health care argument is probably more resolvable than expert opinions on receptacles. Certainly receptacles are not as important a topic. Link to comment
esldude Posted August 16, 2016 Share Posted August 16, 2016 The health care argument is probably more resolvable than expert opinions on receptacles. Certainly receptacles are not as important a topic. Nah, the expert opinions on receptacles are those that agree with my opinion. Otherwise no experts. See how easy that was? And always keep in mind: Cognitive biases, like seeing optical illusions are a sign of a normally functioning brain. We all have them, it’s nothing to be ashamed about, but it is something that affects our objective evaluation of reality. Link to comment
mansr Posted August 16, 2016 Share Posted August 16, 2016 The health care argument is probably more resolvable than expert opinions on receptacles. Certainly receptacles are not as important a topic. http://bikeshed.org/ Link to comment
plissken Posted August 16, 2016 Share Posted August 16, 2016 The disease is suffering through unhelpful arguments. The cure is giving it a rest. The topic is a request to find out whether it is worth spending $50 to upgrade an outlet without starting a pissing match. How's that working out? It's working out just fine actually. If your outlet is wired incorrectly and utter rubbish then even spending $5 may improve things. Everything wired up and working to spec? There isn't a chance in hell another straight up outlet is going to make a difference. The world is chock full of the delusional. Link to comment
rrwwss52 Posted August 16, 2016 Share Posted August 16, 2016 Nah, the expert opinions on receptacles are those that agree with my opinion. Otherwise no experts. See how easy that was? You make more sense than some Link to comment
89reksal Posted August 16, 2016 Share Posted August 16, 2016 It's working out just fine actually. If your outlet is wired incorrectly and utter rubbish then even spending $5 may improve things. Everything wired up and working to spec? There isn't a chance in hell another straight up outlet is going to make a difference. The world is chock full of the delusional. Would I be wrong assuming you've never actually tried for yourself? Link to comment
bluesman Posted August 16, 2016 Share Posted August 16, 2016 The health care argument is probably more resolvable than expert opinions on receptacles. No - sadly, it's not. I'm staying out of both of the "debates" in this thread - it's flying thick and fast around here, which is amazing given the preponderance of hats over cattle. Link to comment
esldude Posted August 16, 2016 Share Posted August 16, 2016 No - sadly, it's not. I'm staying out of both of the "debates" in this thread - it's flying thick and fast around here, which is amazing given the preponderance of hats over cattle. What about a different debate. Which has the best looking nursing staff? Homeopathic treatment or conventional medicine. And always keep in mind: Cognitive biases, like seeing optical illusions are a sign of a normally functioning brain. We all have them, it’s nothing to be ashamed about, but it is something that affects our objective evaluation of reality. Link to comment
christopher3393 Posted August 16, 2016 Share Posted August 16, 2016 The health care argument is probably more resolvable than expert opinions on receptacles. Certainly receptacles are not as important a topic. Certainly. I think we can all agree on that. Link to comment
christopher3393 Posted August 16, 2016 Share Posted August 16, 2016 It's working out just fine actually. If your outlet is wired incorrectly and utter rubbish then even spending $5 may improve things. Everything wired up and working to spec? There isn't a chance in hell another straight up outlet is going to make a difference. The world is chock full of the delusional. This is you taking a piss. Perhaps at this, no one is your match? Link to comment
rrwwss52 Posted August 16, 2016 Share Posted August 16, 2016 No - sadly, it's not. I'm staying out of both of the "debates" in this thread - it's flying thick and fast around here, which is amazing given the preponderance of hats over cattle. Nice avatar bluesman. Well placed levity. Link to comment
plissken Posted August 16, 2016 Share Posted August 16, 2016 Would I be wrong assuming you've never actually tried for yourself? Not only do I have one, I've got $1000 that says I could run romex from the breaker panel to a double gang outlet. Wire a $50 outlet and a $10-15 outlet and you are screwed for ears only assessment telling me which is which out of 15 possible swaps of the power cables. Link to comment
89reksal Posted August 16, 2016 Share Posted August 16, 2016 Not only do I have one, I've got $1000 that says I could run romex from the breaker panel to a double gang outlet. Wire a $50 outlet and a $10-15 outlet and you are screwed for ears only assessment telling me which is which out of 15 possible swaps of the power cables. What receptacle do you have? Link to comment
wgscott Posted August 16, 2016 Share Posted August 16, 2016 Lots of people die using convention treatments too. He had one with one of the highest cure rates, if treated conventionally. Link to comment
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