Are "audiophile grade" wall outlets worth $50 or more?

[89reksal]

You know the answer to that as well as I do. Why do they buy the receptacles? In the hope of getting BETTER SOUND, obviously. They expect to get better sound, and so, they do. It's the same story with all of these "tweaks" that apparently improve the sound of an audio system for no known reason.

 

Sorry, but you're wrong. In my case, after reading so much pro or con for upgraded receptacles, I decided to actually spend $30.00 to try it for myself. I definitely had no expectations, but I was curious enough to try it. I know, that's a novel concept, but that's just me.

 

After hearing and leaving the upgraded receptacle in place for over six months, I decided the results were significant enough that I went out and spent about $200.00 on what was considered the state of the art in audio grade receptacles. That was over three years ago and my only regret is that I didn't do it sooner.

[OldBigEars]

The expectation most have is that audiophile outlets shouldn't make a difference. And I think that's what makes it all the more stunning when one actually hears the difference. Expectations get trounced.

 

The only folks convinced these outlets can't make a difference are those who won't try them. Why would anyone be interested in their advice?

 

Ironically, for years I had an audiophile outlet sitting in a drawer uninstalled. I could not understand how they could make a difference so I didn't put the time into installing it. A good friend in whose ears I trust pressured me to install one. Grudgingly I gave it a shot one day. I was stunned by what I heard.

 

That was a seminal moment for me. It humbled me as I realized that my limited thinking had kept me for years from trying things recommended by very trustworthy people. No more.

 

I know that this won't convince any of the hubris club members who are convinced with absolute certainty that they have all this stuff understood completely. Stunning that there is such confidence when just about every day stories appear with reports that scientists are surprised by an unexpected findings.

 

 

Bingo!!

[wwaldmanfan]

I found this review very interesting:

 

Audiophile AC Power Outlet Comparisons Oyaide, Synergistic Teslaplex, ACME, Hubbell IG 5362, cruzeFIRST Audio Maestro, and Furutech GTX. Review By Jonathan Lo

 

"Some well-heeled audiophiles may object to this article, citing that the specific power plugs and plating that are plugged into these AC outlets can influence the sound greatly. While this assertion is very true, for the purpose of this article, this effect is treated as part of the overall system balance to be considered. After all, the same thing can be said about using different tubes, cables, tweaks, and even components in a given system powered by outlet A, B, C, etc."

[esldude]

So far, as in so many of these types of threads, the people who have actually tried what the OP is asking about seem to be saying yes, it's worth it and the people who haven't tried what the OP is asking about say no, it's not worth it. I'm so surprised.

 

And you know this how? Hope the rest of your information is better founded. The people who have tried them and found no benefit or found them detrimental would also be people saying, don't waste your dough, get a hospital grade if you want and spend money on things that do more for you.

[89reksal]

And you know this how? Hope the rest of your information is better founded. The people who have tried them and found no benefit or found them detrimental would also be people saying, don't waste your dough, get a hospital grade if you want and spend money on things that do more for you.

 

I may have missed it in reading this thread, but I don't recall one post where someone tried a $50.00+ receptacle and said they found no benefit. As for "my information", since it's based on personal experience, I would say it's well founded. How was your personal experience with a $50.00+ audio grade receptacle?

[gmgraves]

Sorry, but you're wrong. In my case, after reading so much pro or con for upgraded receptacles, I decided to actually spend $30.00 to try it for myself. I definitely had no expectations, but I was curious enough to try it. I know, that's a novel concept, but that's just me.

 

After hearing and leaving the upgraded receptacle in place for over six months, I decided the results were significant enough that I went out and spent about $200.00 on what was considered the state of the art in audio grade receptacles. That was over three years ago and my only regret is that I didn't do it sooner.

 

Well, I did try it. I replaced the two outlets that my audio system occupied with hospital grade recepticals, and there was absolutely no difference in sound! However when I installed the isolation transformer, there was a huge improvement (however, I left the recepticals in place since the didn't do any harm either). I will concede that at least SOME audiophile grade recepticals do contain a modicum of line filtration, it is minimal, and if one lives in an area where line noise is very high, I can see where these recepticals might give an improvrment. But make no mistake, it's the filter that is improving the sound, not the receptical

[OldBigEars]

Well, I did try it. I replaced the two outlets that my audio system occupied with hospital grade recepticals, and there was absolutely no difference in sound!

 

You obviously had expectation bias not to hear a difference, and your negativity was validated. This proves nothing. Not that 'hospital grade' means anything - we are listening for musical differences, remember?

[gmgraves]

You obviously had expectation bias not to hear a difference, and your negativity was validated. This proves nothing. Not that 'hospital grade' means anything - we are listening for musical differences, remember?

 

Frankly, I see nothing "obvious" about it. Like anyone else, I bought those recepticals because I was expecting to hear an improvement in sound and I heard none because there was none to hear. At the time, there were no "audiophile" grade recepticals, and on the audio BB to which I subscribed at the time, some subscribers were swearing about these hospital recepticals. They did nothing, and that's the end of it. When audiophile recepticals became available, I decided that a power conditioner would be much more effective. At that point, I became much more interested in going the isolation transformer route. Now, that WAS an improvement!

 

Also, you didn't read my entire previous post. I clearly said that the filter components in many audiophile grade recepticals could certainly perform a slight clean-up of a very noisy mains supply, and that, perhaps, could be heard as an improvement.

[Don Hills]

Perhaps you would be so kind as to turn your expertise to the following:

 

What is a Constant Voltage Transformer - an introduction to the perfect sine wave

 

Although simple in concept the*CVT*is very difficult to explain, leading to some electronics experts to describe it as magic. Effectively the aim is to keep the Iron core of the secondary saturated, which keeps the voltage on the output winding constant.

 

****

 

An isolation transformer that doesn't have a secondary in saturation lacks current "reserve" in the induced magnetic field and will serve only as a ripple filter with line noise rejection.

 

 

I understand them quite well, thank you. I had to take and pass a course for certification before I was allowed to work on them.

 

But we are not discussing ferro-resonant transformers. We are discussing conventional non-saturating isolation transformers, as described on the Canada Transformers page you linked to at the start of this digression.

 

It's like herding cats in here...

[wwaldmanfan]

You obviously had expectation bias not to hear a difference, and your negativity was validated. This proves nothing. Not that 'hospital grade' means anything - we are listening for musical differences, remember?

 

Obviously? I think not. Mr. Graves has quite a résumé of experience in the audio field, and although he is one of the staunchest objectivists here, he has the cred to back up his opinions.

You installed an upgrade recepticle and heard an improvement. George did the same thing and heard no difference. Why should we attribute his experience to expectation bias and not yours?

[kennyb123]

Well, I did try it. I replaced the two outlets that my audio system occupied with hospital grade recepticals, and there was absolutely no difference in sound!

 

That could be like claiming to have been unimpressed with a steak from Ruth's Chris when really all you tried was a burger from McDonalds.

 

The subject of this thread is "audiophile grade" outlets and not "hospital grade" outlets. The former are typically a step up from the latter in terms of materials and sometimes even construction.

 

Where did you buy these hospital grade outlets? A hardware store?

[kennyb123]

Obviously? I think not. Mr. Graves has quite a résumé of experience in the audio field, and although he is one of the staunchest objectivists here, he has the cred to back up his opinions.

 

Can you share details?

 

He may have a wonderful resume but that doesn't grant him a pass to say anything and not be challenged.

 

That he needs to denigrate those who claim to have improved their system using tweaks that he can't explain suggests that he is motivated by something other than the cred you claim he has.

[gmgraves]

That could be like claiming to have been unimpressed with a steak from Ruth's Chris when really all you tried was a burger from McDonalds.

 

The subject of this thread is "audiophile grade" outlets and not "hospital grade" outlets. The former are typically a step up from the latter in terms of materials and sometimes even construction.

 

Where did you buy these hospital grade outlets? A hardware store?

 

Hospital supply store. And, again, did you read my entire response to OldBigEars? Especially the part where I acknowledged that many of these audio grade recepticals contain line filter components which could audibly clean-up some mains supplies? Doesn't seem so, or else you wouldn't be so quick to attack my post. And correct me if I'm wrong here, but what is in any plain mains receptical other than a few very small pieces of formed metal? And how could that possibly affect anything except perhaps the quality of the grip that the receptical exerts on the tines of the mains plug? Hmmm?

[gmgraves]

Can you share details?

 

He may have a wonderful resume but that doesn't grant him a pass to say anything and not be challenged.

 

That he needs to denigrate those who claim to have improved their system using tweaks that he can't explain suggests that he is motivated by something other than the cred you claim he has.

 

And I'm not trying to denigrate anybody. I just occasionally like to inject a little reality into this sometimes fantasyland of neurotic audiophilia. And there's no law that says that you have to take anything that I (or anyone else) here says as gospel, but like you, I am entitled to my opinion and I have a right to voice it. That you (or anybody else, for that matter) disagree with me, doesn't bother me one iota. That's the difference between an argument and a debate.

[kennyb123]

Hospital supply store. And, again, did you read my entire response to OldBigEars? Especially the part where I acknowledged that many of these audio grade recepticals contain line filter components which could audibly clean-up some mains supplies? Doesn't seem so, or else you wouldn't be so quick to attack my post.

 

I was simply calling bull on your claim that you "did try it" in reference to an audiophile grade outlet.

 

 

And correct me if I'm wrong here, but what is in any plain mains receptical other than a few very small pieces of formed metal? And how could that possibly affect anything except perhaps the quality of the grip that the receptical exerts on the tines of the mains plug? Hmmm?

 

Of course you know that different metals have different electrical conductivity ratings. Certainly the cheap metal parts in outlets purchased from the hardware store are rated lower than the metal parts in good audiophile outlets.

 

I use a Wattgate outlet that features metal parts that go through what they refer to as a "Three Layer Plating Process". Certainly the metal in their outlets will have better electrical connectivity and greater corrosion and wear resistance than the crap outlet one can buy at Home Depot.

[Don Hills]

...

I use a Wattgate outlet that features metal parts that go through what they refer to as a "Three Layer Plating Process". Certainly the metal in their outlets will have better electrical connectivity and greater corrosion and wear resistance than the crap outlet one can buy at Home Depot.

 

What are the metals in the "3 plating layers"? What's the actual plating process used? Without knowing this, there's no "certainly" about them having better connectivity and greater corrosion and wear resistance.

[kennyb123]

And I'm not trying to denigrate anybody. I just occasionally like to inject a little reality into this sometimes fantasyland of neurotic audiophilia.

 

Dissuading others (by mocking) from trying a product with which you have no personal experience is injecting reality?

[wwaldmanfan]

I was simply calling bull on your claim that you "did try it" in reference to an audiophile grade outlet.

 

Of course you know that different metals have different electrical conductivity ratings. Certainly the cheap metal parts in outlets purchased from the hardware store are rated lower than the metal parts in good audiophile outlets.

 

I use a Wattgate outlet that features metal parts that go through what they refer to as a "Three Layer Plating Process". Certainly the metal in their outlets will have better electrical connectivity and greater corrosion and wear resistance than the crap outlet one can buy at Home Depot.

 

I'll give you that, but how does it magically change the electricity that then flows through the power cord to your amp to improve its performance?

[kennyb123]

What are the metals in the "3 plating layers"? What's the actual plating process used? Without knowing this, there's no "certainly" about them having better connectivity and greater corrosion and wear resistance.

 

You really think that highly of the metal parts in $10 outlets found in the hardware store? Are they even plated at all?

 

 

From Wattgate website:

 

*WATTGATE Three Layer Plating Process

1. Oxygen free copper plating

improves conductivity

2. Electroless nickel plating

necessary to prevent the leeching of the copper through the pure gold layer

3. 24k gold plating improves conductivity

[wwaldmanfan]

You really think that highly of the metal parts in $10 outlets found in the hardware store? Are they even plated at all?

 

From Wattgate website:

 

*WATTGATE Three Layer Plating Process

1. Oxygen free copper plating

improves conductivity

2. Electroless nickel plating

necessary to prevent the leeching of the copper through the pure gold layer

3. 24k gold plating improves conductivity

 

My $30 plastic Timex watch keeps better time than my $8,000 gold and stainless steel Rolex. What does that prove?

[kennyb123]

My $30 plastic Timex watch keeps better time than my $8,000 gold and stainless steel Rolex. What does that prove?

 

That you had to resort to using a logical fallacy (appealing to an extreme) because you had no better argument to make? [emoji3]

[wwaldmanfan]

That you had to resort to using a logical fallacy (appealing to an extreme) because you had no better argument to make? [emoji3]

 

If it works for you, that's great, but you missed my point. Fancy materials and marketing do not necessarily equate to better performance. I've been there and done that with cables, as I said earlier. That was the price of an education.

 

Why do they plate copper over brass to improve conductivity, then cover it with nickel and gold, which have poorer conductivity than copper? Why not make the socket fom beryllium copper, then plate it with silver? That would actually improve conductivity, but it does not sound as glamorous as gold.

 

 

Care to address my question in post #93?

[kennyb123]

Care to address my question in post #93?

 

That question is ridiculous. Nothing magic about this.

 

I'm going to decline from going further as I don't feel it would be a good use of my time.

[Superdad]

Why do they plate copper over brass to improve conductivity, then cover it with nickel and gold, which have poorer conductivity than copper? Why not make the socket fom beryllium copper, then plate it with silver? That would actually improve conductivity, but it does not sound as glamorous as gold.

 

When I built my listening studio about 12 years ago, I researched and found duplex outlets with beryllium copper contact springs. Even then the spec sheets were not always forthcoming, and I think some of the companies were in transition to the 1/3rd as conductive phosphor bronze. They may have been original Pass & Seymour commercial/industrial grade. I know they were not the hospital grade. And wow, what a grip these things have!

Can't know what difference they made because my entire room is custom wired in the walls and to a heavy duty sub-panel. The whole room construction is a bit nuts, with curved corners, two layers of 5/8" type-X sheetrock with 760 4-inch squares of viscoelastic damping tiles in between (photos in my profile pages).

 

One thing that does make a distinct difference--and is a free tweak--is the choice of L1 versus L2 of the 120/0/120. One side of the house mains from the utility transformer sounds better than the other. This is true even after switching off all other breakers on the panel to eliminate influence of other loads. Do that and then move the audio system from L1 to L2; decide which side you prefer (my preference is for the choice that is less "forward and exciting", the other side is more "natural" sounding and less fatiguing), and then move some of the nastier house loads (lighting, refrigerator, etc.) to the opposite side.

 

I also retighten the screws on my mains panel breakers once every couple of years. It s amazing how they loosen up a little over time from the vibration of the current.

 

--Alex C.

[17629v2]

My $30 plastic Timex watch keeps better time than my $8,000 gold and stainless steel Rolex. What does that prove?

 

You should have bought a Cartier.