Are "audiophile grade" wall outlets worth $50 or more?

[17629v2]

If it works for you, that's great, but you missed my point. Fancy materials and marketing do not necessarily equate to better performance. I've been there and done that with cables, as I said earlier. That was the price of an education.

 

Why do they plate copper over brass to improve conductivity, then cover it with nickel and gold, which have poorer conductivity than copper? Why not make the socket fom beryllium copper, then plate it with silver? That would actually improve conductivity, but it does not sound as glamorous as gold.

 

 

Care to address my question in post #93?

 

With regards to plating, you just can't plate any conductive metal over any other conductive metal. If you want to plate gold over copper, for example, you would need to plate nickle over copper first, and then gold over the nickle. Nickle is the hardest metal to plate with, so quality control becomes a big factor. That's why if you've ever seen cheap gold plating on a piece of jewelry, it turns a greenish color. The color of the plating solution is usually green.

 

For audio, especially, you need to look out for cheap plating. Not only is nickle hard to plate, the chemicals use are extremely toxic, and very illegal. You need things like reagent grade acids and pure cyanide. It goes without saying, products like that are almost impossible to get. However, you can get solution to plate gold without too much difficulty, which is why you see so much half ass gold plating. For audio, I would only trust the most reputable companies like Furutech and Cardas.

[mansr]

Of course you know that different metals have different electrical conductivity ratings. Certainly the cheap metal parts in outlets purchased from the hardware store are rated lower than the metal parts in good audiophile outlets.

 

Why would this matter when the resistance added by the metal parts in a power socket is less than a milliohm either way? If anything matters, it's the contact resistance, and to get that low, a firm mechanical connection is far more important than high conductivity in the metal used. This makes bronze or beryllium copper much better choices than silver, which although having higher conductivity is too soft to provide a firm grip on the plug.

[Jud]

It's like herding cats in here...

 

I take this as "I am realizing this yet again," rather than "I am just now discovering this."

[89reksal]

Well, I did try it. I replaced the two outlets that my audio system occupied with hospital grade recepticals, and there was absolutely no difference in sound! However when I installed the isolation transformer, there was a huge improvement (however, I left the recepticals in place since the didn't do any harm either). I will concede that at least SOME audiophile grade recepticals do contain a modicum of line filtration, it is minimal, and if one lives in an area where line noise is very high, I can see where these recepticals might give an improvrment. But make no mistake, it's the filter that is improving the sound, not the receptical

 

At least you made the effort to try. Now we're able to have a useful discussion between two people that actually have some experience with the topic of the thread.

 

You tried a "hospital grade receptacle" and found no difference for whatever reason. My first upgrade was from a 20 year old builder's receptacle to a cryo'd Hubbell that was supposed to be a model that had characteristics that made it preferable for audio use as compared to other Hubbell models. I have no experience or expertise with hospital grade receptacles but my initial thought is we're comparing apples to oranges. Mine was cryo'd, yours wasn't. Was that the reason for the difference? Mine was chosen because of characteristics supposedly preferable for audio. I'm not sure you could say the same about the hospital grade receptacle. Was my difference because I redid the connections after 20 years? Who knows. All we know for sure is we each tried different receptacles from the original and you found no difference and I did.

 

You moved on to an isolation transformer and found a "huge improvement". I have zero experience with isolation transformers. Any opinion I give on why you should or shouldn't hear a huge improvement is pointless speculation. I find it interesting that you did notice a huge improvement, and as someone posting their actual experience with one I respect your opinion. Unlike so many others that post in these threads, I don't feel any compulsion to try and convince you that whatever you experienced was imagination, impossible or whatever other reasons may be used.

 

Because I heard a noticeable improvement with the new receptacle, I became a believer in the improvements that could be achieved from the AC side of my system. In hindsight, I may have been wrong, since at that point, it may well have been the only thing I was hearing was new connections after 20 years. Who knows? Anyways, I then installed a dedicated 20 amp, 10 gauge circuit to the single receptacle. I honestly didn't hear a noticeable improvement from all this work. Believe me, I had expectation bias coming out the wazoo going into that, especially after what I got from the receptacle. But I was disappointed to say the least. That was my own experience. It never occurred to me to start replying on any threads about dedicated circuits for audio and saying how impossible it was for them to have any effect just because I heard little if anything different.

 

My next step, based on my own experience with hearing an improvement with my receptacle upgrade, and further research, was to purchase a top of the line Furutech GTX-D ® receptacle. Here's a link:

 

GTX-D（R）/（G） | FURUTECH

 

After installing this receptacle, I found what I considered a huge improvement. That's my personal experience. I have no idea of the theory behind any of it. I don't even particularly care. All I know is what I personally experienced. That was about 3 years ago. I have no regrets spending the money I did. I consider the money spent on those 2 receptacles to be money well spent, especially when I see the prices and amount of money others are spending on various upgrades.

 

Bill

[mansr]

My first upgrade was from a 20 year old builder's receptacle to a cryo'd Hubbell that was supposed to be a model that had characteristics that made it preferable for audio use as compared to other Hubbell models.

 

What characteristics of a power socket make it preferable for audio use over others of similar build quality? What change in electrical properties is cryo treatment expected to produce?

[alfe]

What characteristics of a power socket make it preferable for audio use over others of similar build quality? What change in electrical properties is cryo treatment expected to produce?

 

Cryo treatment freeze the packets, no more jitter:)

[89reksal]

What characteristics of a power socket make it preferable for audio use over others of similar build quality? What change in electrical properties is cryo treatment expected to produce?

 

I have no idea of the theory behind any of it. I don't even particularly care. All I know is what I personally experienced.

 

Maybe you could start your own thread about the physics of AC as related to audio?

 

Bill

[AnotherSpin]

I am using wires connectors to eliminate outlets. No soldering too.

[Jud]

I am using wires connectors to eliminate outlets. No soldering too.

 

I won't tell your insurance company.

[Jud]

What change in electrical properties is cryo treatment expected to produce?

 

You mean that would be audible in this specific application, I assume, since there are academic papers showing cryo treatment changes conductivity in metals.

[plissken]

If that's the case, then why do so many people get positive results when they upgrade their outlets?

 

I would take a double gang and wire one uber outlet and one hospital grade outlet and then have someone try and tell me when the audio stack is plugged into audiophile grade outlet.

 

This is actually quite trivial to do.

[plissken]

Most likely not a single one.

 

I have a PS Audio outlet and $1000 that says you couldn't hit it 14 out of 15 vs a hospital grade outlet blind.

[89reksal]

For those keeping score at home, this is post #113 in this thread. Of those, 14 were from people who actually tried some kind of upgraded receptacle. 3 were my posts, 2 were were from people that tried but didn't post their experiences and the remaining 9 gave at least some reference to their own experience.

 

So, bottom line, as in so many of these threads, we have maybe 15% of posts that may be relevant to the thread topic, while the remaining 85% is useless drivel generated by most of the usual participants. Also interesting to note the obviously high post count totals for the majority of those same participants, but that's a topic for another thread.

 

I'm sure Chris is thrilled, since it seems the "useless drivel" is what drives the page views on most of these threads.

 

I wonder if we could get some kind of isolation transformer for useless drivel so I don't have to read through 4 pages of posts for every 1 page that actually has something that may be worthwhile? I'm including this post in the useless drivel category.

 

Bill

[mansr]

For those keeping score at home, this is post #113 in this thread. Of those, 14 were from people who actually tried some kind of upgraded receptacle. 3 were my posts, 2 were were from people that tried but didn't post their experiences and the remaining 9 gave at least some reference to their own experience.

 

So, bottom line, as in so many of these threads, we have maybe 15% of posts that may be relevant to the thread topic, while the remaining 85% is useless drivel generated by most of the usual participants. Also interesting to note the obviously high post count totals for the majority of those same participants, but that's a topic for another thread.

 

Do you trust opinions on, say, homeopathy only from those who have tried it rather than from actual medical experts?

[Jud]

I have a PS Audio outlet and $1000 that says you couldn't hit it 14 out of 15 vs a hospital grade outlet blind.

 

I've got $100 that says you can't find me peer-reviewed scientific evidence of the efficacy of blinded A/B testing for these types of sonic differences.

[Jud]

For those keeping score at home, this is post #113 in this thread. Of those, 14 were from people who actually tried some kind of upgraded receptacle. 3 were my posts, 2 were were from people that tried but didn't post their experiences and the remaining 9 gave at least some reference to their own experience.

 

So, bottom line, as in so many of these threads, we have maybe 15% of posts that may be relevant to the thread topic, while the remaining 85% is useless drivel generated by most of the usual participants. Also interesting to note the obviously high post count totals for the majority of those same participants, but that's a topic for another thread.

 

I'm sure Chris is thrilled, since it seems the "useless drivel" is what drives the page views on most of these threads.

 

I wonder if we could get some kind of isolation transformer for useless drivel so I don't have to read through 4 pages of posts for every 1 page that actually has something that may be worthwhile? I'm including this post in the useless drivel category.

 

Bill

 

Do you trust opinions on, say, homeopathy only from those who have tried it rather than from actual medical experts?

 

I think these two posts show pretty well the futility of either "side" winning any sort of argument like this - it's not as if post #116 or #10116 will cause either of you to shout "The scales have fallen from mine eyes!" and say you can see the other's point. So why don't we just take the argument part as read and the subjectivists can happily post their impressions, the objectivists can happily talk about why it's all impossible, and no one needs to directly tell anyone else he or she's full of beans?

[89reksal]

Do you trust opinions on, say, homeopathy only from those who have tried it rather than from actual medical experts?

 

I'm not sure what homeopathy is but I would give almost exclusive consideration to someone who tried it rather than a medical expert with no experience with it. I care about the result. I have no interest in what some alleged expert has to say about something they have no experience with. Let him/her go contribute to a medical journal where I don't have to hear about it.

 

Bill

[plissken]

I've got $100 that says you can't find me peer-reviewed scientific evidence of the efficacy of blinded A/B testing for these types of sonic differences.

 

What 'sonic differences' what would they be and what are the defining attributes? Why would they be present in sighted testing but disappear with the inverse?

 

Find me a peer reviewed scientific article that stipulates that while bias controlled A/B testing is used for every other industry but audio is exempted.

 

Why would me wiring a dual gang outlet off of a same circuit using one of each outlet not work for finding out those differences?

[plissken]

I'm not sure what homeopathy is but I would give almost exclusive consideration to someone who tried it rather than a medical expert with no experience with it.

 

Bill

 

Yep, Doctors need to have your cancer in order to treat it.

[89reksal]

I think these two posts show pretty well the futility of either "side" winning any sort of argument like this - it's not as if post #116 or #10116 will cause either of you to shout "The scales have fallen from mine eyes!" and say you can see the other's point. So why don't we just take the argument part as read and the subjectivists can happily post their impressions, the objectivists can happily talk about why it's all impossible, and no one needs to directly tell anyone else he or she's full of beans?

 

Why is it 99% of the time, the objectivists are the ones replying to threads/topics that they have no first hand knowledge about, while the subjectivists are the ones replying to give their first hand experiences?

 

I hope I haven't come across in any way as trying to "tell anyone else he or she's full of beans". That's the exact thing that I despise so much in so many of these threads. That's what gets me sucked into even posting. Too many people trying to tell others what they did or should hear. I've never understood what drives people like that. Maybe it's some overwhelming need to save people from themselves.

 

Bill

[alfe]

Sorry stupid post

[89reksal]

Yep, Doctors need to have your cancer in order to treat it.

 

Congratulations! You just won "Most Inane" post of the thread award and that's really saying something. You should be very proud.

 

Bill

[Iain]

I feel like I'm running in swampy sand when I read posts like the example above. These people are like 19th century quacks who believed they understood so much about the human condition. Some of these engineers' only response to results they don't understand is to deny them, and condescendingly insist they are imaginary. I'm tired of their self-important rubbish. Message to the OP....this is an easy one to resolve. Buy a damn audiophile outlet and replace your builder-grade one. The total cost will be $50-100, plus about 10 minutes of time. Which, in this hobby, is NOTHING. You'll soon know if it works or not. Just do it, and please let us know what you find.

 

Thanks for the explanation of the problems of the American mains in your thread from a few months ago. I just wasn't aware of the dodgy aspects of it.

 

That said, I would only purchase an American hospital-grade over an "audiophile-grade", plug because they are built to well understood and uniform standards.

 

The "mythology" inherent in anything labelled "audiophile" makes me uncomfortable, as there aren't any relevant standards involved in their design or construction.

[AnotherSpin]

I won't tell your insurance company.

Only for my stereo, but anyway – thank you!

[bluesman]

I would only purchase an American hospital-grade over an "audiophile-grade", plug because they are built to well understood and uniform standards.

...and they're less expensive (often much less expensive).