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Are "audiophile grade" wall outlets worth $50 or more?


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How does the sequence belay the effects of fresh connections? I do not disagree, but question this exemplification.

 

I guess "sequence" wasn't the best word. I was thinking more that the process of redoing and replacing the connections three different times within approximately a one year period should be more than enough to eliminate the probability that the improvements I noticed were "only the result" of redoing the connections.

 

Even that possibility raises an interesting thought. If ""It's also possible that the freshly reconnected wire, tighter fittings in the receptacles and unmarred plating at the points of contact are the improvements which can't hurt, regardless of parts cost.", can be even partly accepted as making a possible difference, then why should it be so hard to believe that replacing the entire receptacle with a much different one could also make a possible difference? Whether that difference is worth spending more than $50.00 to achieve is up to each person to decide for themselves, but in my own experience of spending about $200.00 on the Furutech three years ago, it was well worth it.

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Actually, they do have different sounds if we're talking IC's and speaker cables. Not sure about the outlets. But the reason I brought up brass and hospital outlets is that the application is different. For a hospital, its a safety issue. Brass won't spark when it comes into contact with other metals. That quality isn't important for audio use, so is it the best metal to use for SQ?

The only thing that matters for audio purposes is that the socket forms a reliable, low-resistance connection with the plug, which is to say contact area and pressure need to be adequate. For this a springy metal such as bronze is typically used for the actual contact points while brass might be found in the interconnecting straps of a multi-socket unit. Given the shape of these parts, most any metal will have electrical properties (i.e. resistance) well within acceptable range. We're talking about an inch or so of thick metal. You could make it out of lead and it still wouldn't make a difference, terrible mechanical properties aside.

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Fixed it for you.

http://m.ecmweb.com/power-quality-archive/correcting-voltage-sags-constant-voltage-transformers

 

"A CVT maintains two separate magnetic paths with limited coupling between them, as shown in*Fig. 2, on page 47. The output contains a parallel resonant tank circuit and draws power from the primary to replace power delivered to the load. The transformer is designed so that the resonant path is in saturation while the other is not — a state known as ferroresonance."

 

The objective is to produce a steady voltage state in the secondary of the transformer supplying the device to be stabilized.

 

That reserve must come from something derived from the primary supply.

 

 

 

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Aftr reading this thread, I went to Home Depot to look at recepticals. They did have many more expensive models, but they were not labeled hospital or audiophile grade .

They also have one with a built in surge protector for about $20. Has anyone tried one of those?

That would seem to be the most bang for the buck.

 

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I would not buy anything like that at Home Depot. Go to an electric supply that sells to the trade, or similar online. Home Depot colludes with manufacturers to sell inferior-grade products that look genuine on the outside, but are crap. I've heard it elsewhere as well, but my plumber told me if you buy a Kohler faucet, for example, the packaging and exterior may look genuine, but the guts might be plastic, as opposed to brass on a real one. You think you are getting a bargain, but perhaps not.

 

I've looked at Leviton outlets and wall switches at Home Depot, and they somehow seemed cheezy to me, almost like knockoffs. When I bought the same components at my local electrical supply, they looked and felt more substantial. I'm not going to risk burning my house down to save $10, but maybe I'm just paranoid.

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The only thing that matters for audio purposes is that the socket forms a reliable, low-resistance connection with the plug, which is to say contact area and pressure need to be adequate. For this a springy metal such as bronze is typically used for the actual contact points while brass might be found in the interconnecting straps of a multi-socket unit. Given the shape of these parts, most any metal will have electrical properties (i.e. resistance) well within acceptable range. We're talking about an inch or so of thick metal. You could make it out of lead and it still wouldn't make a difference, terrible mechanical properties aside.

 

If that's the case, then why do so many people get positive results when they upgrade their outlets?

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I'm curious how many of the thread respondents saying it can't or doesn't make a difference have actually tried an upgraded receptacle.

 

Most likely not a single one.

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This one is similar to the TrippLite I use for my 'front end' electronics.

 

It didn't pass enough current for my Power amps, which hastened the demise of my tube rectifier.

 

This was audible as lowered bass output, and resulted in a higher crossover point with my subs.

 

With the amps directly connected to mains (no isolation transformer) I could lower the subwoofer point into the 70 Hz range.

 

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Pity, that.

 

Fortunately, I elected early on, to not use an isolation transformer for my high current output kit. Instead I connect direct to mains via:

Isobar 4 Outlet 200 240V Surge Protector 2M Cord 680 Joules (EURO-4) | Tripp Lite *

 

... for my sub-woofer,

 

 

Here's a range of Isobar surge protectors for North America:

Surge Protectors | Tripp Lite **

 

 

* For use in EU only

 

** For use in North America only

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I still contend that the process of installing new outlets solves many of the problems induced by loose, and therefore, intermittent connections.

 

In 2001, Vince Galvo of MSB weighed in on this topic and made some fairly conservative suggestions.

 

The biggest takeaway was that for heavy current demands (like Kilowatt amps at full gallop) standard 12 gauge wire wasn't sufficient.

 

http://www.msbtech.com/support/wiring.php?Page=supportHome

 

Even more recently I have had success with BIG isolation transformers. They should have a VA rating at least double the 'va' (volts-amps) rating of your amplifier transformers. Triple the rating is better, so if your amp has a 1000 va (which is 1 kVA) transformer, the isolation transformer should be 2000 (2 kVA) minimum and may be marginal, 3000 to 5000 va (5 kVA) is better. I only mention the subject of line conditioners and isolation transformers to be complete. I prefer the amps straight in the wall and try line conditioners on the front end before you buy one.

 

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In

I would not buy anything like that at Home Depot. Go to an electric supply that sells to the trade, or similar online. Home Depot colludes with manufacturers to sell inferior-grade products that look genuine on the outside, but are crap. I've looked at Leviton outlets and wall switches at Home Depot, and they somehow seemed cheezy to me, almost like knockoffs. When I bought the same components at my local electrical supply, they looked and felt more substantial.

The term for that crap in the clothing business is "direct buy". Most of the branded stuff at high end outlets like Last Call (Nieman Marcus) is made for the outlets to look like the "real thing" but sell for less. I don't know if Home Depot et al do the same thing, but it wouldn't surprise me.

 

The actual leftovers & excess items going to the outlets from their full line stores is called residue, but there are no such sources for HD etc. So if they can order enough to spec their own line of something, I wouldn't be surprised. Still, I don't know for certain that they do, since retooling a production line is a major undertaking.

 

Pep Boys sold house brand synthetic oil for years at about half the price of branded synthetics. It was the same Pennzoil sold in the yellow bottles, despite belief that it was a cheaper inferior substitute. But the cost of making yet another oil would have been high enough to raise the price, not lower it. Guaranteed bulk sales brought down the price.

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I still contend that the process of installing new outlets solves many of the problems induced by loose, and therefore, intermittent connections.

 

If your AC outlet has a loose or intermittent connection, then you definitely have an issue. My position is that if you have a properly working residential duplex outlet with a solid connection to your line cord, I'm skeptical whether there is an audible difference between that and a hospital grade or "audiophile" AC outlet, all else being equal.

 

I have experimented with expensive (maybe I better say mid-priced) digital cables, analog interconnects, speaker cables, and AC cables, and did not hear a discernable difference between them and generic cables of sufficient gauge with good specs. Either my four-figure audio system is not resolving enough, or my old ears are shot, or both. However, I'm lucky to have clean AC power from the wall to my rig with no hums, interference, or other noise.

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We're in agreement, here. It's another of those exercises in feasible, yet untested ideas that have research authored only by the sellers of the devices.

 

FWIW- If the user is paying an electrician to do the work, the greatest expense is labor.

 

Steve Hoffman discussed this at length and recommended receptacles built with heavier materials, without endorsing 'treatment' of any kind.

 

I only hesitate to support this 'upgrade' if it detracts from other aspects of a budget; such as buying music from young artists in need of sales to make their living.

 

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Expectation bias? Seems to me either a socket passes current to the line cord, or it doesn't and shorts out. Kind of like being half-pregnant.

 

Expectation bias just doesn't cut it. It can be a factor, but the results are just too consistent. Besides, if you are aware of it, you can control it. Most of the time, people claim expectation bias, so they can be right. (Generally speaking. I'm not saying you do it.)

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Expectation bias just doesn't cut it. It can be a factor, but the results are just too consistent. Besides, if you are aware of it, you can control it. Most of the time, people claim expectation bias, so they can be right. (Generally speaking. I'm not saying you do it.)

 

I'm not a hard-line objectivist that rules out possibilities. Debating here accomplishes nothing. I say go for it--replace your working AC outlet with a more expensive one (we're not talking a lot of money here, after all), and let us know if your stereo sounds better as a result. Only you can make that determination.

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Expectation bias just doesn't cut it. It can be a factor, but the results are just too consistent.

 

The expectation most have is that audiophile outlets shouldn't make a difference. And I think that's what makes it all the more stunning when one actually hears the difference. Expectations get trounced.

 

The only folks convinced these outlets can't make a difference are those who won't try them. Why would anyone be interested in their advice?

 

Ironically, for years I had an audiophile outlet sitting in a drawer uninstalled. I could not understand how they could make a difference so I didn't put the time into installing it. A good friend in whose ears I trust pressured me to install one. Grudgingly I gave it a shot one day. I was stunned by what I heard.

 

That was a seminal moment for me. It humbled me as I realized that my limited thinking had kept me for years from trying things recommended by very trustworthy people. No more.

 

I know that this won't convince any of the hubris club members who are convinced with absolute certainty that they have all this stuff understood completely. Stunning that there is such confidence when just about every day stories appear with reports that scientists are surprised by an unexpected findings.

 

Like this one that I spotted yesterday:

 

http://arstechnica.com/science/2016/08/researchers-orbit-a-muon-around-an-atom-confirm-physics-is-broken/

 

Not saying this has anything to do with the topic at hand. Just saying that there are good grounds for leaving open the possibility that we don't yet have everything *perfectly* figured out.

Digital:  Sonore opticalModule > Uptone EtherRegen > Shunyata Sigma Ethernet > Antipodes K30 > Shunyata Omega USB > Gustard X26pro DAC < Mutec REF10 SE120

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Foundation: Stillpoints Ultra, Shunyata Denali v1 and Typhon x1 power conditioners, Shunyata Delta v2 and QSA Lanedri Gamma Revelation and Infinity power cords, QSA Lanedri Gamma Revelation XLR interconnect, Shunyata Sigma Ethernet, MIT Matrix HD 60 speaker cables, GIK bass traps, ASC Isothermal tube traps, Stillpoints Aperture panels, Quadraspire SVT rack, PGGB 256

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If audiophile outlets work, it won't be from new physics of course, but from aspects of very prosaic known physics that folks haven't taken into account. Simplified models are absolutely necessary in engineering. One just needs to be careful not to leave out anything that will materially affect the outcome.

 

It is certainly also possible that even multiple subjective impressions may be in error.

 

Now that we've granted either view may be flawed, we can get back to our conversation, and folks can make up their own minds.

One never knows, do one? - Fats Waller

The fairest thing we can experience is the mysterious. It is the fundamental emotion which stands at the cradle of true art and true science. - Einstein

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Even if metals had different sounds, which they don't, the half inch or so used in a power socket would hardly be enough to matter.

 

+1. The mains is three things: Volts, Amps, and line noise. If you can't measure a difference between a normal mains socket and a fancy one (audiophile or hospital grade) in any of those three items, Then they're not doing anything. Yes, a hospital grade mains socket is better than a household one. But what it's better at is being plugged and unplugged almost constantly as the equipment needs of patients change from patient to patient. The company making the hospital-grade mains connectors tests and certifies this robustness and reliability because good, solid connections for electrical equipment could mean the difference between life and death. "Audiophile grade" mains sockets might contain some rudimentary line filtering, but it's not going to be enough due to space limitations inside the junction box that has to house the duplex socket. Only an isolation transformer can supply adequate filtering against transferred high-frequency noise on the line. Remember, line transformers are designed for 50-60 Hz. They don't do so well above that frequency, and the more iron and copper involved, the more heavily they attenuate higher frequencies. Add to that some further LRC low-pass filtering, and it is possible to almost completely knock-out any on-line noise and even transient noise spikes such as those caused by high-current switching pulses from refrigerators and air conditioners.

George

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Just got an ad from Audio Advisor for this: Pangea Audio Premier SE NEMA 5-20P AC Power Receptacle-Audio Advisor

 

I have an aversion to nerdy looking cable company presidents in lab coats, but have heard people swear by these outlets.

 

Not trying to start a pissing match. Just wondering if the points of contact at the outlet can make any difference, assuming your $1.50 construction grade cheapo isn't ridiculously sloppy and worn out . . .

 

Signed, A Relative Newbie (who has profited greatly from CA)

 

Looks like I'm a bit late to this debate. But I'll just repeat what I wrote a few months ago...replacing my (apparently perfect) wall outlet, which I suspect was typical US builder grade, with a Maestro audiophile outlet was quite simply the best $85, by far, that I've ever spent on hi-fi gear. Immediate, obvious, unmistakeable improvement in SQ. Compared with, say, diddling around with upsampling settings and toying about with DSD - a miles more satisfactory use of time and money. I'll let the engineers ponder and try to figure out why and how. From my my perspective, I'm just glad that I followed my instinct and did this simple upgrade. Game changing, my friend.

Tidal / Qobuz--> Roon--> Fios Gigabit--> Netgear Prosafe GS105 --> Supra 8-->EtherRegen --> Fiber--> opticalRendu / CI Audio LPS --> Curious Evolved Link --> Chord Qutest--> AQ Water --> Belles Aria Integrated--> AQ Robin Hood--> Kudos Super 20's

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Correcting Voltage Sags with Constant-Voltage Transformers

 

"A CVT maintains two separate magnetic paths with limited coupling between them, as shown in*Fig. 2, on page 47. The output contains a parallel resonant tank circuit and draws power from the primary to replace power delivered to the load. The transformer is designed so that the resonant path is in saturation while the other is not — a state known as ferroresonance."

...

 

That is, as the name implies, a ferro-resonant transformer. They're not specifically designed for isolation purposes. They're also noisy, are inefficient / run hot, and distort the output waveform. An isolation transformer, on the other hand, is designed to minimise coupling of anything other than the desired AC waveform from the input to the output. I maintained equipment using large examples of both types for many years.

"People hear what they see." - Doris Day

The forum would be a much better place if everyone were less convinced of how right they were.

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Expectation bias just doesn't cut it. It can be a factor, but the results are just too consistent. Besides, if you are aware of it, you can control it. Most of the time, people claim expectation bias, so they can be right. (Generally speaking. I'm not saying you do it.)

 

Most definitely an incorrect statement in the bold above.

And always keep in mind: Cognitive biases, like seeing optical illusions are a sign of a normally functioning brain. We all have them, it’s nothing to be ashamed about, but it is something that affects our objective evaluation of reality. 

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Perhaps you would be so kind as to turn your expertise to the following:

 

http://www.aelgroup.co.uk/faq/faq001.php

 

Although simple in concept the*CVT*is very difficult to explain, leading to some electronics experts to describe it as magic. Effectively the aim is to keep the Iron core of the secondary saturated, which keeps the voltage on the output winding constant.

 

****

 

An isolation transformer that doesn't have a secondary in saturation lacks current "reserve" in the induced magnetic field and will serve only as a ripple filter with line noise rejection.

 

There's no free lunch; either a bank of capacitors that can discharge into an inverter or a quenching magnetic field is required to supply current demand.

 

It's not a new concept.

 

http://www.enjoythemusic.com/magazine/manufacture

 

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If that's the case, then why do so many people get positive results when they upgrade their outlets?

 

You know the answer to that as well as I do. Why do they buy the receptacles? In the hope of getting BETTER SOUND, obviously. They expect to get better sound, and so, they do. It's the same story with all of these "tweaks" that apparently improve the sound of an audio system for no known reason.

George

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I feel like I'm running in swampy sand when I read posts like the example above. These people are like 19th century quacks who believed they understood so much about the human condition. Some of these engineers' only response to results they don't understand is to deny them, and condescendingly insist they are imaginary. I'm tired of their self-important rubbish. Message to the OP....this is an easy one to resolve. Buy a damn audiophile outlet and replace your builder-grade one. The total cost will be $50-100, plus about 10 minutes of time. Which, in this hobby, is NOTHING. You'll soon know if it works or not. Just do it, and please let us know what you find.

Tidal / Qobuz--> Roon--> Fios Gigabit--> Netgear Prosafe GS105 --> Supra 8-->EtherRegen --> Fiber--> opticalRendu / CI Audio LPS --> Curious Evolved Link --> Chord Qutest--> AQ Water --> Belles Aria Integrated--> AQ Robin Hood--> Kudos Super 20's

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