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Are "audiophile grade" wall outlets worth $50 or more?


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I don't think Speedskater and I are talking about the same thing. His SDS combines a utility service and wind, solar, generator, etc. (which - solar - I'm doing anyway). What I'm talking about is two boxes *from the utility*.

No I'm thinking of a big isolation transformer.

 

Most jurisdictions don't permit two services to a home.

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like a dedicated AC power regenerator ...

Don't put any money on a regenerator being better than or even equal to the power company's service.

Lots of problems with some regenerators.

 

Some of Jim Brown's thoughts on the subject.

DC-AC Inverters:

The Samlex PST-series of “pure sine wave” DC-AC inverters carry an FCC Part 15

Class B rating for RF noise, and are relatively quiet, but may not be quiet enough for any given installation,

depending on proximity to antennas for the bands you want to operate. (Part 15 Class A

is a much looser specification for industrial applications, and allows 20 dB higher noise levels than

Class B, which is for residential use.) The Pure Sine Wave inverter in Fig 10 carries FCC Part 15

Class B certification, but had to extensively choked to kill radiated noise.

 

Uninterruptable Power Supplies (UPS) come in two basic types: On-line types are always regenerating

power, while Standby units monitor the AC line and regenerate power only when AC power

fails. Both types include batteries to provide the power when power fails, a DC power supply to

keep those batteries charged, and a DC-AC inverter that operates when the unit is producing AC

power. If the DC power supply is an SMPS, it will likely produce RF noise while charging the battery.

All of the comments about DC-AC Inverters and SMPS apply equally to UPS units.

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I wrote:

Top shelf receptacles from major (not audiophile) brands are all you need. With hospital grade receptacles, you pay a lot extra for documentation.

Sorry, but that's not all that's different about hospital grade AC outlets. An outlet must pass all standard outlet testing plus these 9 additional tests not required for certification of standard outlets:

..............................................................................................................................................

..............................................................................................................................................

Please read what I wrote. Nothing about what tests are done. The difference in price is about the testing documentation.

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I wrote:

Top shelf receptacles from major (not audiophile) brands are all you need. With hospital grade receptacles, you pay a lot extra for documentation.

 

Please read what I wrote. Nothing about what tests are done. The difference in price is about the testing documentation.

No, it's not . First, there are several tests done to achieve hospital grade certification that are not done on standard outlets (even "top shelf" outlets). Read the actual UL 498 standard, including supplement SD. Hospital grade outlets have to meet a far higher standard - you're paying for the extra quality and features that enable them to pass the additional testing. Even if what you call top shelf outlets are said to meet or exceed these standards, they are not tested to assure that quality.

 

Most importantly, the cost of hospital grade outlets is far less than the cost of audiophile outlets (whatever that may actually be - there is no standard or certification for "audiophile outlets") and a bit less than your top shelf units (e.g. Lutron SDS 15 is $11, an SDS20 is $15, and a Cooper RFTR9505 duplex is $45). You can get excellent hospital grade duplex outlets for about $10. A PS Audio PowerPort is $50 and at least one model Furutech duplex is $150. So you have it entirely backwards - you don't need top shelf standard receptacles, for which you pay a lot extra despite a total lack of documentation. All you need are hospital grade receptacles, which are similar in construction and quality and have the documentation to prove their performance despite being much less expensive than audiophile outlets.

 

The difference in price is neither about testing nor about documentation. Given the favorable cost of hospital grade outlets, it's a mystery what the extra cost of "top shelf" or "audiophile" outlets buys. And this is quite apart from the question of whether better outlets improve SQ.

 

FWIW, rotary (e.g. Hubbell) connectors are both unnecessary and of no additional benefit. They're designed to prevent accidental unplugging and to be safe in wet and explosive environments.

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No I'm thinking of a big isolation transformer.

 

Most jurisdictions don't permit two services to a home.

 

The transformer is necessary in a separately derived system, defined as one where power is derived both from the utility and separately from the utility, for example from solar or generator (that's the definition quoted from the code in the articles I read, at least).

 

Two "services" (IIRC 220 amps coming into each of two circuit breaker boxes), with a third box containing the main breaker that turns both boxes on and off, all from the utility, is the arrangement in my home, and it seems pretty common around here from talking to friends and neighbors.

One never knows, do one? - Fats Waller

The fairest thing we can experience is the mysterious. It is the fundamental emotion which stands at the cradle of true art and true science. - Einstein

Computer, Audirvana -> optical Ethernet to Fitlet3 -> Fibbr Alpha Optical USB -> iFi NEO iDSD DAC -> Apollon Audio 1ET400A Mini (Purifi based) -> Vandersteen 3A Signature.

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No I'm thinking of a big isolation transformer.

 

Most jurisdictions don't permit two services to a home.

 

Big isolation transformers work! I've mentioned this before, but I have a big industrial/medical (I don't really know which. The company that made it (Martin Magnetics corp., in Los Angeles) went out of business years before I bought mine at an electronics surplus store) one that has unusually large end bell covers on both the primary and the secondary. Removing them revealed LRC filters featuring oil-filled capacitors on both sides. The input is a big three pronged twist-to-lock mains connector and the output is a high grade wall-type two outlet U.S. mains socket. This thing weighs more than 70 pounds and you can really hear the improvement when it is inserted between the house mains outlet and one's stereo system. You can see it too! just connect an oscilloscope across first the house mains and then across the transformer's output. It is astonishing how clean the secondary output is when compared to the primary. The primary has all kinds of grunge on it, and the secondary is a pure, pristine sine wave! Bass is tighter, treble is cleaner sounding and the system images better (I hadn't expected that). Every one who has heard the difference has commented on it. If you can find one, my friends, by all means buy it, but make sure it's big enough to époque your whole system. Mine is rated at 20 amps @ 120 volts which is 5 amps more than the mains circuit (15 amps) so my application is perfect.

George

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At some point reading CA, I came across someone recommending one of these isolation transformers: https://smile.amazon.com/Tripp-Lite-Isolation-Transformer-Outlet/dp/B00006HPHN/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1471134824&sr=8-1&keywords=tripplite+isolation

 

They come in different wattages. I'd like opinions from those who understand the electronics of putting one of these between the wall and my system.

 

I have two concerns:

 

1) some customers on Amazon complain that the 1000 watt one (I think) hums a bit. I wouldn't want that.

2) my California condo is not air conditioned and my LPS and other equipment creates enough warmth in the room, thank you. So if these transformers are always on generating heat, they are probably not for me.

 

My understanding though, is that they both clean up the mains and provide surge protection. What might their downside be? Thanks.

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At some point reading CA, I came across someone recommending one of these isolation transformers: https://smile.amazon.com/Tripp-Lite-Isolation-Transformer-Outlet/dp/B00006HPHN/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1471134824&sr=8-1&keywords=tripplite+isolation

 

They come in different wattages. I'd like opinions from those who understand the electronics of putting one of these between the wall and my system.

 

I have two concerns:

 

1) some customers on Amazon complain that the 1000 watt one (I think) hums a bit. I wouldn't want that.

2) my California condo is not air conditioned and my LPS and other equipment creates enough warmth in the room, thank you. So if these transformers are always on generating heat, they are probably not for me.

 

My understanding though, is that they both clean up the mains and provide surge protection. What might their downside be? Thanks.

 

Isolation transformers on their own are 99% efficient, so not a real problem. If you wish to connect a power amp to the isolation transformer, consider at least 2000VA unit. The reason for this is to dampen the current pulses when the amplifier is under load for harmonics that cause the transformer to hum, really buzz/rattle would be a better description. Harmonics at various frequencies are difficult to control, the larger the transformer helps.

 

If the Tripplite 1000VA transformer hums if a load is a heater or lamp, it's not very well made.

US made iron cored transformers are made rather poorly :) Hear me out first! Typically there's a core and the laminations are placed around the core. Problem is, the lamentations are held on by screws which work themselves loose, or worse, like this transformer, has the laminations riveted! Over time, the rivets work themselves loose and the transformer hums. By all means use a toroid or an R core type transformer, at least these for audio use are quiet.

_41F7tMiEyZL.jpg

AS Profile Equipment List        Say NO to MQA

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No, it's not . First, there are several tests done to achieve hospital grade certification that are not done on standard outlets (even "top shelf" outlets). Read the actual UL 498 standard, including supplement SD. Hospital grade outlets have to meet a far higher standard - you're paying for the extra quality and features that enable them to pass the additional testing. Even if what you call top shelf outlets are said to meet or exceed these standards, they are not tested to assure that quality.

 

Most importantly, the cost of hospital grade outlets is far less than the cost of audiophile outlets (whatever that may actually be - there is no standard or certification for "audiophile outlets") and a bit less than your top shelf units (e.g. Lutron SDS 15 is $11, an SDS20 is $15, and a Cooper RFTR9505 duplex is $45). You can get excellent hospital grade duplex outlets for about $10. A PS Audio PowerPort is $50 and at least one model Furutech duplex is $150. So you have it entirely backwards - you don't need top shelf standard receptacles, for which you pay a lot extra despite a total lack of documentation. All you need are hospital grade receptacles, which are similar in construction and quality and have the documentation to prove their performance despite being much less expensive than audiophile outlets.

 

The difference in price is neither about testing nor about documentation. Given the favorable cost of hospital grade outlets, it's a mystery what the extra cost of "top shelf" or "audiophile" outlets buys. And this is quite apart from the question of whether better outlets improve SQ.

 

FWIW, rotary (e.g. Hubbell) connectors are both unnecessary and of no additional benefit. They're designed to prevent accidental unplugging and to be safe in wet and explosive environments.

 

I thought hospital outlets had to be made out of brass? If so, that might not be the best metal for sound quality.

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I thought hospital outlets had to be made out of brass? If so, that might not be the best metal for sound quality.

 

Bronze is used mainly on the contacts since it has high spring tension and resilience, a requisite for a plug and socket arrangement and currents up to the 20A. Brass is too weak to use to maintain tension for sockets (receptacles), but great for buss work, grounding points, anywhere there is a permanent connection.

AS Profile Equipment List        Say NO to MQA

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At some point reading CA, I came across someone recommending one of these isolation transformers: https://smile.amazon.com/Tripp-Lite-Isolation-Transformer-Outlet/dp/B00006HPHN/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1471134824&sr=8-1&keywords=tripplite+isolation

 

They come in different wattages. I'd like opinions from those who understand the electronics of putting one of these between the wall and my system.

 

I have two concerns:

 

1) some customers on Amazon complain that the 1000 watt one (I think) hums a bit. I wouldn't want that.

2) my California condo is not air conditioned and my LPS and other equipment creates enough warmth in the room, thank you. So if these transformers are always on generating heat, they are probably not for me.

 

My understanding though, is that they both clean up the mains and provide surge protection. What might their downside be? Thanks.

 

Well, from experience, I can only tell you about mine. When I got it, it did hum a bit (the transformer itself, not through the speakers). I fixed it by tightening the screws that held the laminations together. Since mine was rated at 20 Amps at 120 volts, that would be 2400 Watts. Yes, it does get warm, but only slightly. Not enough to raise the temperature in the room, even on a hot day. It's just enough above ambient to be noticed. Other than that and the few Watts it draws when nothing is turned on, I don't see any real drawbacks.

George

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The mains will see a voltage drop depending on the length of wire run from the service panel to the outlet.

 

No amount of plating, treatment or insulation will replace the 'missing volts' at the connection.

 

Hum will be induced by coupling of magnetic fields anywhere along the length of the run, particularly by motors (like exhaust fans or air-conditioning) and even the most expensive receptacles do not address this.

 

Antennae are just precisely cut lengths of wire. Expensive outlets are in the class of improvements that won't hurt, but likely won't make significant improvements, either.

 

Before replacing an outlet, shut off the AC supply at the service panel and verify all the connections are tight.

 

Most AC supply problems are from intermittent connections (loose punch down, splices or broken tabs at receptacle).

 

As to cryogenic treatments - how to verify if something like this was even done? It's like undercoating a car at the dealership...

 

http://m.homedepot.com/p/Leviton-Decora-15-Amp-Tamper-Resistant-Duplex-Outlet-Black-R55-T5325-0DE/202066690

Sent from my Nexus 6 using Tapatalk

Playing around with the A/C side of a sound system is no time or money wasted. After replacing standard and hospital receptacles with Furutech gtx-g in three systems, the consensus was 3D-er, polished natural sound and the ability to play louder with less ear fatigue. After having this experience they don't seem expensive at all.

 

Sent from my Nexus 4 using Tapatalk

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It's also possible that the freshly reconnected wire, tighter fittings in the receptacles and unmarred plating at the points of contact are the improvements which can't hurt, regardless of parts cost.

 

Regarding isolation transformers: if the Primary is smaller than the power supplies being served, it acts as a ripple filter.

 

A 1kva transformer may be sufficient for low power consumption devices that use 'Wall warts' but will quickly quench under demands from some larger amplifiers.

 

My tube amps don't sound better with the TrippLite unit I own, but the upstream digital electronics seem fine.

 

I suggest that if you can move an isolation transformer into service without assistance, it lacks sufficient iron in the core to maintain saturation if you play dynamic music loud.

 

https://www.canadatransformers.com/transformer-efficiency

 

Sent from my Nexus 6 using Tapatalk

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... I suggest that if you can move an isolation transformer into service without assistance, it lacks sufficient iron in the core to maintain avoid saturation if you play dynamic music loud. ...

 

Fixed it for you.

"People hear what they see." - Doris Day

The forum would be a much better place if everyone were less convinced of how right they were.

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I thought hospital outlets had to be made out of brass? If so, that might not be the best metal for sound quality.

 

Even if metals had different sounds, which they don't, the half inch or so used in a power socket would hardly be enough to matter.

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Fixed it for you.

Isolation transformers are distinctly different from interstage or output transformers: they carry a single waveform and saturation at their core creates a magnetic field which collapses under high current demands.

 

Without this reserve of power stored in the form of a variable magnetic field, it's just another noise filter.

 

Sent from my Nexus 6 using Tapatalk

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Isolation transformers on their own are 99% efficient, so not a real problem.

[ATTACH=CONFIG]28442[/ATTACH]

 

Since when are transformers 99% efficient- the core possibly, but as a whole? I'd love to be proven wrong as my business requires using several 15kva+ 480v>240 3 phase step downs. If that were the case, the would not get warm. Maybe I am completely mistaken, but I was under the impression they were all in the 90-95% range in part because the primary draws 10% regardless of the secondary.

Forrest:

Win10 i9 9900KS/GTX1060 HQPlayer4>Win10 NAA

DSD>Pavel's DSC2.6>Bent Audio TAP>

Parasound JC1>"Naked" Quad ESL63/Tannoy PS350B subs<100Hz

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Playing around with the A/C side of a sound system is no time or money wasted. After replacing standard and hospital receptacles with Furutech gtx-g in three systems, the consensus was 3D-er, polished natural sound and the ability to play louder with less ear fatigue. After having this experience they don't seem expensive at all.

 

+1

 

My experience was upgrading to a cryo'd Hubbell receptacle from the standard builder receptacle, then to a dedicated 10 gauge circuit, then to a Furutech GTX-D® receptacle. Each step made a noticeable improvement, with the Furutech probably making the most improvement.

 

I was happy after upgrading to the Hubbell, but I figured if it made such an improvement, it was worth trying the much more expensive Furutech. I was and still am, very happy with the results.

 

I would also say my sequence of upgrades over a period of about a year would eliminate the possibility of this improvement being only the result of this suggestion: "It's also possible that the freshly reconnected wire, tighter fittings in the receptacles and unmarred plating at the points of contact are the improvements which can't hurt, regardless of parts cost."

 

I'm curious how many of the thread respondents saying it can't or doesn't make a difference have actually tried an upgraded receptacle.

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I would also say my sequence of upgrades over a period of about a year would eliminate the possibility of this improvement being only the result of this suggestion: "It's also possible that the freshly reconnected wire, tighter fittings in the receptacles and unmarred plating at the points of contact are the improvements which can't hurt, regardless of parts cost."

 

I'm curious how many of the thread respondents saying it can't or doesn't make a difference have actually tried an upgraded receptacle.

How does the sequence belay the effects of fresh connections? I do not disagree, but question this exemplification.

 

Btw, I do not deny the net effects or usefulness of good connectors effecting the sound and fully believe in the cryo'd things having had first hand evidence of how it can effect the durability and sharpness of cutting tools.

Forrest:

Win10 i9 9900KS/GTX1060 HQPlayer4>Win10 NAA

DSD>Pavel's DSC2.6>Bent Audio TAP>

Parasound JC1>"Naked" Quad ESL63/Tannoy PS350B subs<100Hz

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Even if metals had different sounds, which they don't, the half inch or so used in a power socket would hardly be enough to matter.

 

Actually, they do have different sounds if we're talking IC's and speaker cables. Not sure about the outlets. But the reason I brought up brass and hospital outlets is that the application is different. For a hospital, its a safety issue. Brass won't spark when it comes into contact with other metals. That quality isn't important for audio use, so is it the best metal to use for SQ?

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...and a lot of money that would probably be better spent on other stuff :)

 

like a dedicated AC power regenerator ...

 

I would use a passive, medical-grade isolation transformer, instead:

Isolator Series 120V 1800W UL60601 1 Medical Grade Isolation Transformer 6 Hospital Grade Outlets (IS1800HG) | Tripp Lite *

 

... as this avoids all the RFI/EMI normally assocoated with active devices.

 

 

 

* Caution. this specific model is for use in North America, only.

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This one is similar to the TrippLite I use for my 'front end' electronics.

 

It didn't pass enough current for my Power amps, which hastened the demise of my tube rectifier.

 

This was audible as lowered bass output, and resulted in a higher crossover point with my subs.

 

With the amps directly connected to mains (no isolation transformer) I could lower the subwoofer point into the 70 Hz range.

 

Sent from my Nexus 6 using Tapatalk

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