Sonore microRendu

[Cycleman]

This will work as long as the #1 router is setup as a wireless bridge rather than as a true router. The machine LMS is running on needs to be on the same subnet as the microRendu. Many routers can be setup this way.

 

John S.

 

Hi John,

 

Thanks for that info.

 

However, I'm not certain how to figure out how the extend-network router, in #1, is setup.

Nor am I certain how to change that, if needed.

 

So, both routers -- the Main One wired to my modem (which the computer running LMS is directly wired to), and the one in step #1 connected wirelessly to the Main One -- are Apple Extreme routers. And when I check what's what with the AirPort Utility, they both have the same IP number for the "Subnet Mask" = 255.255.255.0

 

Is that the subnet you're talking about?

Or should I be looking for some other info?

And is there anyone else here, who knows about networks using Apple routers and Mac computers, who could also help?

 

Dave, who says he's at the point of danger in that he's been able to set up the router in step #1 so that it's connected to his home network but doesn't really know enough more than that

[allenbonline]

I'm not sure this is relevant, but the DAC can be the issue. My DAC also can't see the NAA unless the DAC is switched on before the NAA is. If the DAC is switched off, the DAC won't see the NAA on when the DAC is turned on again. I have to turn off the NAA, turn on the DAC, and then turn the NAA on again.

 

As far as I understand this is an issue with the DAC USB implementation, not the NAA. The DAC won't see any USB device unless the DAC is switched on first. The DAC doesn't have any kind of "hot" ability for USB device switching.

 

 

I'm not saying it (NAA) should be able to see it when the DAC is switched off, but it would be nice that it remembered it the next time it is switched on, and better still defaulted to it. Otherwise, how is a family member or guest supposed to figure out where the music has gone, when they switch to USB on the actual DAC / music player.

 

I would point out I am not pointing fingers here, other than what happens at OS level when Linux communicates with USB, and vice versa. I am hoping the microRendu will be 'smart' at this, otherwise I see frequent visits to the web interface just to get USB connected again.

 

This may actually be an issue with HQP NAA, because, as I understand it, Roon does not have this problem with USB when it played via one of these slim devices. But there are a fair few units out there, e.g. my Devialet 200, where it will enter sleep mode when inputs are not used for a period of time. And people like to turn off one-box players like the Dev which run very warm.

[barrows]

Hi guys. To answer some of the questions: I have only used the proto µRendu as an Open Home DLNA device, serving files from a NAS running Minimserver and Bubble, with a the Linn Kazzoo app for control (same approach I use with the Sonore Signature Rendu). I have not had any time to try other ways. No need for any full scale computers with this approach.

 

As with all things in audio, power supplies are at least half of the battle. I consult with Sonore on power supply design, layout considerations, and other "stuff", and built a very good supply for use with the µRendu proto for our initial testing. What will happen as far as products for sale, I do not have any information on that.

 

At some point I would be interested in trying to run a set up using ROON/HQPlayer, but that is a ways off for me. I still am not sure I understand how ROON really works over Ethernet, and if or how much the necessary computer on the network would affect the sound.

[Superdad]

Are those three things all I need (or in the case of the LPS, might want)?

 

Dave, who says yes he needs an Ethernet cable to attach from the router to the microRendu and a USB cable to attach the microRendu to the DAC but those are trivial in terms of setup

 

[EDIT: I started writing the below reply about 4 hours ago, but then got distracted with work in the shop. So while my comments may not seem to follow the direct of the past few hours in the thread, they are still correct and perhaps helpful for those that have a simple network.]

 

You got it Dave! And you will be very surprised at how easy it will be to set up. SonicOrbiter OS (at least with the microRendu; I've never used SO OS before) has a web browser interface. So on your regular computer you first type in an address to a Sonore server, then it looks for a microRendu on your network. Upon finding it, it opens another browser window that is pointed at the IP address of your microRendu and then you have a simple interface to choose what mode you want the microRendu to operate in (NAA, SqueezeLite, DLNA, Shairport, etc.). AFAIK, after that first discovery of the IP address of the microRendu on your network, internet connection is no longer needed (so chill any privacy paranoia).

 

I may not be remembering the above entirely correctly (I'm sure Jesus will pop in) as John was only here with the unit for a few hours (much of that time spent on other things), but I was struck by how easy and reliable it seemed. We were plugging and unplugging the microRendu from my network (we were experimenting with it as NAA and also trying to chase down a stutter that turned out to be an HQ Player issue), and the microRendu always showed right back up on the network with the same IP address (no need for the Sonore internet server discovery step). And hot swapping the DAC on its output worked flawlessly as well.

[Distinctive]

Hi John,

 

Thanks for that info.

 

However, I'm not certain how to figure out how the extend-network router, in #1, is setup.

Nor am I certain how to change that, if needed.

 

So, both routers -- the Main One wired to my modem (which the computer running LMS is directly wired to), and the one in step #1 connected wirelessly to the Main One -- are Apple Extreme routers. And when I check what's what with the AirPort Utility, they both have the same IP number for the "Subnet Mask" = 255.255.255.0

 

Is that the subnet you're talking about?

Or should I be looking for some other info?

And is there anyone else here, who knows about networks using Apple routers and Mac computers, who could also help?

 

Dave, who says he's at the point of danger in that he's been able to set up the router in step #1 so that it's connected to his home network but doesn't really know enough more than that

Use your Airport Utility and go to network setup. Here you can tick off Bridge mode, so the Extreme does not fight your router in distributing DHCP adresses to your LAN devices (for one).

You can also buy a dedicated Ethernet repeater and connect this to your microRendu.

[Cycleman]

Use your Airport Utility and go to network setup. Here you can tick off Bridge mode, so the Extreme does not fight your router in distributing DHCP adresses to your LAN devices (for one).

You can also buy a dedicated Ethernet repeater and connect this to your microRendu.

 

Well, still need to get this more clear...I'm slow when it comes to networks...

 

So, here's how the router -- the one that will be next to the microRendu and extends my network -- shows up in the AirPort Utility:

 

 

So, when you write that within the utility I can "tick off Bridge mode" does the "Off (Bridge Mode)" that's showing mean it's okay?

 

Or did you mean I could "tick off" (meaning turn on) Bridge mode?

[Distinctive]

Well, still need to get this more clear...I'm slow when it comes to networks...

 

So, here's how the router -- the one that will be next to the microRendu and extends my network -- shows up in the AirPort Utility:

 

 

So, when you write that within the utility I can "tick off Bridge mode" does the "Off (Bridge Mode)" that's showing mean it's okay?

 

Or did you mean I could "tick off" (meaning turn on) Bridge mode?

The setting you show above is correct. Your AE is set to Bridge mode.

[Cycleman]

Upon finding it, it opens another browser window that is pointed at the IP address of your microRendu and then you have a simple interface to choose what mode you want the microRendu to operate in (NAA, SqueezeLite, DLNA, Shairport, etc.).

 

Alex, thanks for those details and your encouragement.

 

One last question, for now, for you or others reading here.

 

If I'm operating the microRendu in SqueezeLite mode, with LMS running on my computer, does that mean I can still use the iPeng remote app on my iPad to control the music playing through the microRendu?

[mojo_lo]

Hi team sonore - the urendu sounds like an incredible step forward in computer audio. Very excited to be following its development!

 

I understand from the other thread that you considered adding i2s output to the urendu but size was a big factor. Ie, you wanted the urendu to be small enough to plug directly into a dac without the need for usb cables, but the electronics needed for a proper i2s implementation would've made the urendu too large.

 

Curious as to whether you plan a derivative of the urendu (with SonicOrbiter OS) with i2s output in the future though? I own an audio-gd Master 11, which sounds much better via i2s than USB, hence my interest. Thanks!

[Adyc]

Alex, thanks for those details and your encouragement.

 

One last question, for now, for you or others reading here.

 

If I'm operating the microRendu in SqueezeLite mode, with LMS running on my computer, does that mean I can still use the iPeng remote app on my iPad to control the music playing through the microRendu?

 

Yes. That is correct. That is how I'm using it for my SonicOribter SE.

[ted_b]

Hi team sonore - the urendu sounds like an incredible step forward in computer audio. Very excited to be following its development!

 

I understand from the other thread that you considered adding i2s output to the urendu but size was a big factor. Ie, you wanted the urendu to be small enough to plug directly into a dac without the need for usb cables, but the electronics needed for a proper i2s implementation would've made the urendu too large.

 

Curious as to whether you plan a derivative of the urendu (with SonicOrbiter OS) with i2s output in the future though? I own an audio-gd Master 11, which sounds much better via i2s than USB, hence my interest. Thanks!

 

That's basically the Sonore Signature Rendu.

[JohnSwenson]

Alex, thanks for those details and your encouragement.

 

One last question, for now, for you or others reading here.

 

If I'm operating the microRendu in SqueezeLite mode, with LMS running on my computer, does that mean I can still use the iPeng remote app on my iPad to control the music playing through the microRendu?

 

Yes, iPeng or any other squeeze controller. I'm currently using two different android phones, LMS web interface or an SBT as a controller for my prototype microRendu. Yes the touchscreen of an SBT can be setup to control other squeeze players! (including the microRendu)

 

John S.

[JohnSwenson]

Hi team sonore - the urendu sounds like an incredible step forward in computer audio. Very excited to be following its development!

 

I understand from the other thread that you considered adding i2s output to the urendu but size was a big factor. Ie, you wanted the urendu to be small enough to plug directly into a dac without the need for usb cables, but the electronics needed for a proper i2s implementation would've made the urendu too large.

 

Curious as to whether you plan a derivative of the urendu (with SonicOrbiter OS) with i2s output in the future though? I own an audio-gd Master 11, which sounds much better via i2s than USB, hence my interest. Thanks!

 

The problem with I2S from an iMX6 is the max sample rate is 192, I tried for two years to get 384 I2S out of an iMX6 and was unsuccessful. (According to the specs it should be possible, but there is a bug in the hardware that messes it up). I do not want to support an I2S interface for this that does not support 384. People using HQP and NAA mode will want to use 384 that bypasses the internal filters in many DACs, with 192 you can't do that.

 

Don't give up on USB so fast. From my experience the microRendu can radically improve the performance of a DAC over its USB input, there is a fairly good probability that your DAC will sound as good or even better over USB with the microRendu. It may not do this in every case, but I have heard this happen on every DAC I have used it with (not very many at this point so it is not a guarantee, but it does seem to be trending that way).

 

John S.

[vortecjr]

See screenshot.

 

However, I now realize that JRiver's DSP Studio setting on the controller side has no effect in DLNA mode, and it is the foo_dsd_asio plugin which resamples to DSD256 on the renderer side :-|

 

So I would still need HQPlayer?

 

 

[ATTACH=CONFIG]24614[/ATTACH]

 

For a minute I thought I missed something in a new release. You will need HQ Player.

[mojo_lo]

That's basically the Sonore Signature Rendu.

 

But with SonicOrbiter OS and without "no-compromise" parts+PSU (ie priced more accessibly).

 

The problem with I2S from an iMX6 is the max sample rate is 192, I tried for two years to get 384 I2S out of an iMX6 and was unsuccessful. (According to the specs it should be possible, but there is a bug in the hardware that messes it up). I do not want to support an I2S interface for this that does not support 384. People using HQP and NAA mode will want to use 384 that bypasses the internal filters in many DACs, with 192 you can't do that.

 

Don't give up on USB so fast. From my experience the microRendu can radically improve the performance of a DAC over its USB input, there is a fairly good probability that your DAC will sound as good or even better over USB with the microRendu. It may not do this in every case, but I have heard this happen on every DAC I have used it with (not very many at this point so it is not a guarantee, but it does seem to be trending that way).

 

John S.

 

That makes the decision easy then, no sense holding out for an i2s version.

 

If the answer was going to be no, I was hoping you’d follow-up with a statement like that about the USB implementation. Even more excited about the urendu now. <grin>

[Superdad]

Yes, iPeng or any other squeeze controller. I'm currently using two different android phones, LMS web interface or an SBT as a controller for my prototype microRendu. Yes the touchscreen of an SBT can be setup to control other squeeze players! (including the microRendu)

 

John S.

 

What about an Apple Watch? Can I browse my entire music library on my wrist? Can I, can I Mr. Wizard!! I'll buy 100 microRendus right now if it can. Or maybe I'll strap a DAC/headphone to my other wrist, and the microRendu to one ankle and the battery supply for everything to the other. Oh wait, I need a network connection. WiFi mesh network arriving next month… ;)

[Doak]

What about an Apple Watch? Can I browse my entire music library on my wrist? Can I, can I Mr. Wizard!! I'll buy 100 microRendus right now if it can. Or maybe I'll strap a DAC/headphone to my other wrist, and the microRendu to one ankle and the battery supply for everything to the other. Oh wait, I need a network connection. WiFi mesh network arriving next month… ;)

 

[rickca]

Deleted.

[juanitox]

does an optical LAN isolator before the Urendu will improve it or will be redundant ?

[Cormorant]

does an optical LAN isolator before the Urendu will improve it or will be redundant ?

 

It's a good question, but I think it is one of the known unknowns at this point.

 

There are many possibilities on how noise could leak into the system from the network side, even with the multiple stage ethernet regulated power supply "firewalls" that John designed into the device. For example, some people might be using an extremely noisy switch or router.

 

It does sound like, from John's explanations, that at least some people won't see an improvement from optical isolation, though.

 

Plenty of us will be trying our microRendus with and without optical isolation so we will be able to report back.

[Distinctive]

How much current could be drawn from the uRendu USB +5V line?

[JohnSwenson]

How much current could be drawn from the uRendu USB +5V line?

 

The USB2.0 spec is 0.5A, the regulator feeding the VBUS pin on the output is rated at 1A, it will current limit a little above that, around 1.2A. I deliberately did not add current sensing circuitry to have the computer shut the connection down if over the spec, if your DAC pulls over an AMP, you will get decreased voltage and your DAC will have to live with that.

 

Just be VERY careful about the input voltage if your DAC takes over 0.5A, at high currents the higher the input voltage is the more heat is generated by the regulator.

 

The official spec of 6-9V will work with a DAC drawing 0.5A, if the DAC draws significantly more than this, the unit will get too hot if you are using the upper end of the voltage range.

 

John S.

[Distinctive]

Thanks.

My DirectStream DAC use the VBUS only for signalling, so this does not constitute any problem in my case.

[Theobetley]

Too late to get on the mailing list?

[juanitox]

Too late to get on the mailing list?

 

unfortunately yes .. in the queue gentleman!