junker Posted January 8, 2016 Share Posted January 8, 2016 Predictably crushed... DR5 ---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- DR Peak RMS Filename ---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- DR6 -0.10 dB -7.73 dB 01 Blackstar.m4a DR5 -0.10 dB -5.89 dB 02 'Tis a Pity She Was a Whore.m4a DR5 -0.10 dB -6.88 dB 03 Lazarus.m4a DR5 -0.10 dB -6.10 dB 04 Sue (Or In a Season of Crime).m4a DR6 -0.10 dB -7.35 dB 05 Girl Loves Me.m4a DR6 -0.10 dB -8.07 dB 06 Dollar Days.m4a DR6 -0.10 dB -7.65 dB 07 I Can't Give Everything Away.m4a ---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Number of files: 7 Official DR value: DR5 A Digital Audio Converter connected to my Home Computer taking me into the Future Link to comment
goldsdad Posted January 8, 2016 Share Posted January 8, 2016 Predictably crushed... DR5 ---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- DR Peak RMS Filename ---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- DR6 -0.10 dB -7.73 dB 01 Blackstar.m4a DR5 -0.10 dB -5.89 dB 02 'Tis a Pity She Was a Whore.m4a DR5 -0.10 dB -6.88 dB 03 Lazarus.m4a DR5 -0.10 dB -6.10 dB 04 Sue (Or In a Season of Crime).m4a DR6 -0.10 dB -7.35 dB 05 Girl Loves Me.m4a DR6 -0.10 dB -8.07 dB 06 Dollar Days.m4a DR6 -0.10 dB -7.65 dB 07 I Can't Give Everything Away.m4a ---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Number of files: 7 Official DR value: DR5 Yep, DR as expected for 2016. Pathetic Link to comment
mkrzych Posted January 8, 2016 Share Posted January 8, 2016 Yep, DR as expected for 2016. Pathetic Man, I am really sad! Mastering engineers and A&R's are just stupid and deaf. Why, why? -- Krzysztof Maj http://mkrzych.wordpress.com/ "Music is the highest form of art. It is also the most noble. It is human emotion, captured, crystallised, encased… and then passed on to others." - By Ken Ishiwata Link to comment
wgscott Posted January 8, 2016 Share Posted January 8, 2016 I'm listening to it on spotify right now. At risk of being a Pollyanna, I think it is supposed to lack dynamic range. Link to comment
Jud Posted January 8, 2016 Share Posted January 8, 2016 I'm listening to it on spotify right now. At risk of being a Pollyanna, I think it is supposed to lack dynamic range. Even half decently recorded very loud music (e.g., early Nirvana) has DRs around 10, so how I wonder would this work as an artistic decision? A catalog of flat affect and ennui? Reminds me of the critic's review of a Katherine Hepburn movie: "She ran the gamut of emotions from A to B." One never knows, do one? - Fats Waller The fairest thing we can experience is the mysterious. It is the fundamental emotion which stands at the cradle of true art and true science. - Einstein Computer, Audirvana -> optical Ethernet to Fitlet3 -> Fibbr Alpha Optical USB -> iFi NEO iDSD DAC -> Apollon Audio 1ET400A Mini (Purifi based) -> Vandersteen 3A Signature. Link to comment
firedog Posted January 8, 2016 Share Posted January 8, 2016 I'm listening to it on spotify right now. At risk of being a Pollyanna, I think it is supposed to lack dynamic range. Possible, but there is very little music that is really supposed to be without DR of at least 8. At least anything over a couple of miutes in length. And even music that is naturally "8" will sound way better than the same music compressed to "5". Main listening (small home office): Main setup: Surge protector +>Isol-8 Mini sub Axis Power Strip/Isolation>QuietPC Low Noise Server>Roon (Audiolense DRC)>Stack Audio Link II>Kii Control>Kii Three (on their own electric circuit) >GIK Room Treatments. Secondary Path: Server with Audiolense RC>RPi4 or analog>Cayin iDAC6 MKII (tube mode) (XLR)>Kii Three BXT Bedroom: SBTouch to Cambridge Soundworks Desktop Setup. Living Room/Kitchen: Ropieee (RPi3b+ with touchscreen) + Schiit Modi3E to a pair of Morel Hogtalare. All absolute statements about audio are false Link to comment
wgscott Posted January 8, 2016 Share Posted January 8, 2016 Well, it kind of blows chunks anyway, so no great loss. Link to comment
junker Posted January 8, 2016 Author Share Posted January 8, 2016 The vinyl rip is purported to have DR10 which I personally feel is more true to the auditory vision. Also, I would argue that some of the Jazz motifs would sound better with some space between the notes and with more atmosphere IMHO. Some of the dub step-eque content might work compressed though I suppose. The previous release, The Next Day did the same thing... Album details - Dynamic Range Database I'm listening to it on spotify right now. At risk of being a Pollyanna, I think it is supposed to lack dynamic range. A Digital Audio Converter connected to my Home Computer taking me into the Future Link to comment
junker Posted January 8, 2016 Author Share Posted January 8, 2016 Honestly, every best of 2015 release - except for Isbell - that I came across was P^$$# crushed this way...even Adele 25 for heavens sake. So, at this point the only thing I can think is just to start ripping fresh vinyl. I may pick up the new Korg phono / ADC / DAC and just start doing this when I have to. Sucks... A Digital Audio Converter connected to my Home Computer taking me into the Future Link to comment
wgscott Posted January 8, 2016 Share Posted January 8, 2016 The vinyl rip is purported to have DR10 That definitively disproves my speculation. WTF would they compress it more than for vinyl? From what little I understand, DR10 is quite good for vinyl. Link to comment
junker Posted January 8, 2016 Author Share Posted January 8, 2016 I'm seeing this across the board now. Maybe the digital is coming off one digital master to cover MP3, CD, and hi-res distribution intended to be played on headphones, in the car, and on radio (to stand out and sound modern)? My guess is vinyl has to have a lower RMS for tracking... Dunno. That definitively disproves my speculation. WTF would they compress it more than for vinyl? From what little I understand, DR10 is quite good for vinyl. A Digital Audio Converter connected to my Home Computer taking me into the Future Link to comment
Jud Posted January 8, 2016 Share Posted January 8, 2016 That definitively disproves my speculation. WTF would they compress it more than for vinyl? From what little I understand, DR10 is quite good for vinyl. Actually, due to the way the standard being tested works, if vinyl and a CD version are made from the same mastering, the LP will *measure* as having greater DR by a couple of points. So it isn't always that the CD version is compressed and the vinyl isn't, or is compressed less. But when the DR difference is more than a couple of points in favor of the LP, then the CD version has indeed been more compressed. One never knows, do one? - Fats Waller The fairest thing we can experience is the mysterious. It is the fundamental emotion which stands at the cradle of true art and true science. - Einstein Computer, Audirvana -> optical Ethernet to Fitlet3 -> Fibbr Alpha Optical USB -> iFi NEO iDSD DAC -> Apollon Audio 1ET400A Mini (Purifi based) -> Vandersteen 3A Signature. Link to comment
JakovH Posted January 8, 2016 Share Posted January 8, 2016 All this talk about DR and nothing about content. Well, it kind of blows chunks anyway, so no great loss. I agree. Pure rubbish. Maybe that's the theme of the album. Bad music mastered badly. In that case, it's a success. Edit: Went straight here from new posts. Should've checked thread location. Link to comment
sodamail Posted January 8, 2016 Share Posted January 8, 2016 Nowadays, Mastering job is just pushing a digital file into a brickwall plug-in like Wave L1/L2 limiter, with a hard threshold value to make it sound LOUD, they don't care about dynamic range... Link to comment
YashN Posted January 8, 2016 Share Posted January 8, 2016 Honestly, every best of 2015 release - except for Isbell - that I came across was P^$$# crushed this way...even Adele 25 for heavens sake. So, at this point the only thing I can think is just to start ripping fresh vinyl. I may pick up the new Korg phono / ADC / DAC and just start doing this when I have to. Sucks... Sigh, that may finally ween me off purchasing further CDs anymore and I'll probably go the same route with vinyl (or hopefully DSD if more become available). First, I have a list of about 20 mods to do to our Technics Direct-Drive turntable... Dedicated Line DSD/DXD | Audirvana+ | iFi iDSD Nano | SET Tube Amp | Totem Mites Surround: VLC | M-Audio FastTrack Pro | Mac Opt | Panasonic SA-HE100 | Logitech Z623 DIY: SET Tube Amp | Low-Noise Linear Regulated Power Supply | USB, Power, Speaker Cables | Speaker Stands | Acoustic Panels Link to comment
YashN Posted January 8, 2016 Share Posted January 8, 2016 Nowadays, Mastering job is just pushing a digital file into a brickwall plug-in like Wave L1/L2 limiter, with a hard threshold value to make it sound LOUD, they don't care about dynamic range... A lot of amateurs would do that. Usually, a great mastering 'engineer' wouldn't do that, but there is real financial pressure from clients requiring it be done this way (or else they look elsewhere). Dedicated Line DSD/DXD | Audirvana+ | iFi iDSD Nano | SET Tube Amp | Totem Mites Surround: VLC | M-Audio FastTrack Pro | Mac Opt | Panasonic SA-HE100 | Logitech Z623 DIY: SET Tube Amp | Low-Noise Linear Regulated Power Supply | USB, Power, Speaker Cables | Speaker Stands | Acoustic Panels Link to comment
YashN Posted January 8, 2016 Share Posted January 8, 2016 Bad music mastered badly. Is it really that bad? Dedicated Line DSD/DXD | Audirvana+ | iFi iDSD Nano | SET Tube Amp | Totem Mites Surround: VLC | M-Audio FastTrack Pro | Mac Opt | Panasonic SA-HE100 | Logitech Z623 DIY: SET Tube Amp | Low-Noise Linear Regulated Power Supply | USB, Power, Speaker Cables | Speaker Stands | Acoustic Panels Link to comment
junker Posted January 8, 2016 Author Share Posted January 8, 2016 David Bowie's New Album: Blackstar | Rolling Stone "The arty, unsettling 'Blackstar' is Bowie's best anti-pop masterpiece since the Seventies" - David Fricke A Digital Audio Converter connected to my Home Computer taking me into the Future Link to comment
junker Posted January 8, 2016 Author Share Posted January 8, 2016 Check the DR database against the top 10 on this list: 50 Best Albums of 2015 | Rolling Stone A lot of amateurs would do that. Usually, a great mastering 'engineer' wouldn't do that, but there is real financial pressure from clients requiring it be done this way (or else they look elsewhere). A Digital Audio Converter connected to my Home Computer taking me into the Future Link to comment
junker Posted January 9, 2016 Author Share Posted January 9, 2016 Predictably crushed... DR5 ---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- DR Peak RMS Filename ---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- DR6 -0.10 dB -7.73 dB 01 Blackstar.m4a DR5 -0.10 dB -5.89 dB 02 'Tis a Pity She Was a Whore.m4a DR5 -0.10 dB -6.88 dB 03 Lazarus.m4a DR5 -0.10 dB -6.10 dB 04 Sue (Or In a Season of Crime).m4a DR6 -0.10 dB -7.35 dB 05 Girl Loves Me.m4a DR6 -0.10 dB -8.07 dB 06 Dollar Days.m4a DR6 -0.10 dB -7.65 dB 07 I Can't Give Everything Away.m4a ---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Number of files: 7 Official DR value: DR5 A Digital Audio Converter connected to my Home Computer taking me into the Future Link to comment
bkinbk Posted January 9, 2016 Share Posted January 9, 2016 Actually, due to the way the standard being tested works, if vinyl and a CD version are made from the same mastering, the LP will *measure* as having greater DR by a couple of points. So it isn't always that the CD version is compressed and the vinyl isn't, or is compressed less. But when the DR difference is more than a couple of points in favor of the LP, then the CD version has indeed been more compressed. Mind explaining this a bit more? I'm not sure I get this: "Actually, due to the way the standard being tested works ..." Thanks. Link to comment
Jud Posted January 9, 2016 Share Posted January 9, 2016 Mind explaining this a bit more? I'm not sure I get this: "Actually, due to the way the standard being tested works ..." Thanks. The TT Meter measures in accordance with an International Telecommunications Union (ITU) standard that isn't what we ordinarily think of as dynamic range (range from softest to loudest), but rather is a comparison of average loudness and peak loudness, similar to something commonly referred to as "crest factor." It's in essence a measure of the "spikiness" of a waveform. Consistency in the sound results in lower measurements, and CDs produce more consistency in sound than vinyl. Thus identical digital files recorded to CD and LP will show higher DR measurements for the LP. Watch this: [video=youtube;n-AE9dL5FG8] One never knows, do one? - Fats Waller The fairest thing we can experience is the mysterious. It is the fundamental emotion which stands at the cradle of true art and true science. - Einstein Computer, Audirvana -> optical Ethernet to Fitlet3 -> Fibbr Alpha Optical USB -> iFi NEO iDSD DAC -> Apollon Audio 1ET400A Mini (Purifi based) -> Vandersteen 3A Signature. Link to comment
Patatorz Posted January 9, 2016 Share Posted January 9, 2016 Just bought it from Qobuz. Same values as expected foobar2000 1.3.8 / Dynamic Range Meter 1.1.1log date: 2016-01-09 10:56:18 -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Analyzed: Interprètes Divers / Blackstar -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- DR Peak RMS Duration Track -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- DR5 -0.10 dB -7.73 dB 9:58 1/7-Blackstar DR5 -0.10 dB -5.88 dB 4:53 2/7-'Tis a Pity She Was a Whore DR5 -0.10 dB -6.88 dB 6:22 3/7-Lazarus DR5 -0.10 dB -6.09 dB 4:40 4/7-Sue (Or In a Season of Crime) DR6 -0.10 dB -7.35 dB 4:52 5/7-Girl Loves Me DR6 -0.10 dB -8.07 dB 4:45 6/7-Dollar Days DR6 -0.10 dB -7.65 dB 5:47 7/7-I Can't Give Everything Away -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Number of tracks: 7 Official DR value: DR5 Samplerate: 96000 Hz Channels: 2 Bits per sample: 24 Bitrate: 3033 kbps Codec: FLAC ================================================================================ Blog / Forum Link to comment
Le Concombre Masqué Posted January 9, 2016 Share Posted January 9, 2016 Never mind if I lose credibility, même pas peur : it sounds so good !! I love the sound !! (24/96) Pretty much in line (sound wise) with the aesthetic of the Berlin trilogy : very dense modulated with fulgurant incises. I took details out of my sig but I get very clean fast controlled bass down below 20 from my multi amps active feedback loop controlled system ; might help... last but not least : And at least one great song that has already caught me : Lazarus Link to comment
AnotherSpin Posted January 9, 2016 Share Posted January 9, 2016 Never mind if I lose credibility, même pas peur : it sounds so good !! I love the sound !! (24/96) Pretty much in line (sound wise) with the aesthetic of the Berlin trilogy : very dense modulated with fulgurant incises. In my modest sound system Blackstar sounds pretty good. Do not care about DR figures either. Link to comment
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