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David Bowie - Blackstar (2016)


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I was in a coffee shop yesterday and asked the hipsters "working" there why they weren't playing any Bowie. They looked at me like I was a spider from mars. They didn't know who he was. They didn't care. I think it is very unlikely he will be regarded as Mozart in 300 years.

 

I sometimes do karaoke with some friends. A very mixed group from 15-65 years old. I once did a couple of Spiders from Mars tunes. No one under 30 had heard it before. Now they did seem very interested in it and asked questions (which is a miracle with me singing it). I did go find it with Bowie doing the singing for them to hear. I was taken aback no one had heard of it and only a couple just remembered hearing the Bowie name.

 

I also think he was too unusual and the songs depend too much on Bowie for them to have long lasting value. They aren't even likely to be covered by others too much. Wish it weren't so, but such is life.

And always keep in mind: Cognitive biases, like seeing optical illusions are a sign of a normally functioning brain. We all have them, it’s nothing to be ashamed about, but it is something that affects our objective evaluation of reality. 

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The material is Mastered different for Vinyl and Digital. This is common practice. They are quite different processes. Vinyl can't handle what digital can to put in in a nutshell.

 

No sense in going to a lower quality sound source with all it's drawbacks of rice krispies, surface noise, inner groove distortion, limited life expectancy, fragile nature, etc, etc, to gain a few db of dynamic range.

"The gullibility of audiophiles is what astonishes me the most, even after all these years. How is it possible, how did it ever happen, that they trust fairy-tale purveyors and mystic gurus more than reliable sources of scientific information?"

Peter Aczel - The Audio Critic

nomqa.webp.aa713f2bb9e304522011cdb2d2ca907d.webp  R.I.P. MQA 2014-2023: Hyped product thanks to uneducated, uncritical advocates & captured press.

 

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No sense in going to a lower quality sound source with all it's drawbacks of rice krispies, surface noise, inner groove distortion, limited life expectancy, fragile nature, etc, etc, to gain a few db of dynamic range.

 

Well pressed vinyl is not really a significantly lower quality source, unless the playback equipment is sub-par. The problem is the quality of today's pressings.

 

Sometimes I think they make LPs more noisy now on purpose, because vinyl hipsters the full vintage feel they expect from the format ;)

Claude

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The material is Mastered different for Vinyl and Digital. This is common practice. They are quite different processes. Vinyl can't handle what digital can to put in in a nutshell.

 

True, and the irony is that the digital release is far more limited than the vinyl. Also, the highest peaks of the waveform have been sliced off (creating squarewave-like distortion) in the digital, which wouldn't be cuttable for vinyl.

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It's simply laziness and greed on the part of the record company. Why go to the trouble and expense of making more than one digital master? They want a highly compressed master in order to make mp3 files for phone playback, so they compress the digital master and then make the hi-res, Redbook, and mp3 versions based on that. All are based on a master that's been compressed.

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All absolute statements about audio are false :)

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The Hi-Res version of Blackstar is no better than the 16-bit version other than being in Hi-Res. Both versions are the same DR and have the same compressed feel to them.

 

So being a computer digital audio die-hard, this is driving me back to my turntable.

 

Edt: to rip of course :)

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It's simply laziness and greed on the part of the record company. Why go to the trouble and expense of making more than one digital master? They want a highly compressed master in order to make mp3 files for phone playback, so they compress the digital master and then make the hi-res, Redbook, and mp3 versions based on that. All are based on a master that's been compressed.

 

That's the absolute truth of it dog, and SAD too.

 

So being a computer digital audio die-hard, this is driving me back to my turntable.

 

Edt: to rip of course :)

 

Then you'll end up with 3-4 db more dynamics along with rice krispies, surface noise, inner groove distortion, limited life expectancy, fragile nature, lack of digital convenience etc, etc. And be paying the labels even more $ for the privilege. Kind of like cutting off your nose to spite your face.

"The gullibility of audiophiles is what astonishes me the most, even after all these years. How is it possible, how did it ever happen, that they trust fairy-tale purveyors and mystic gurus more than reliable sources of scientific information?"

Peter Aczel - The Audio Critic

nomqa.webp.aa713f2bb9e304522011cdb2d2ca907d.webp  R.I.P. MQA 2014-2023: Hyped product thanks to uneducated, uncritical advocates & captured press.

 

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That's the absolute truth of it dog, and SAD too.

 

 

 

Then you'll end up with 3-4 db more dynamics along with rice krispies, surface noise, inner groove distortion, limited life expectancy, fragile nature, lack of digital convenience etc, etc. And be paying the labels even more $ for the privilege. Kind of like cutting off your nose to spite your face.

 

Thank you for your 'theoretical' description of vinyl replay. The reality of listening to a good quality vinyl system bears little relation to the above though. I've got a 24/96 download of Blackstar and I like the sound, but I'm interested in getting an LP version as well. As far as I know nobody on this thread has posted a review of what the LP sounds like, just all these graphs, which I'm sure don't tell the whole story.

System (i): Stack Audio Link > 2Qute+MCRU psu; Gyrodec/SME V/Hana SL/EAT E-Glo Petit/Magnum Dynalab FT101A) > PrimaLuna Evo 100 amp > Klipsch RP-600M/REL T5x subs

System (ii): Allo USB Signature > Bel Canto uLink+AQVOX psu > Chord Hugo > APPJ EL34 > Tandy LX5/REL Tzero v3 subs

System (iii) KEF LS50W/KEF R400b subs

 

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I'm actually a fan of vinyl. My dad has over 5000 LPs and that's what I grew up listening to. I've got a small collection of my fave albums mostly 90s stuff. With almost all vinyl releases now a MP3 download is provided as well. All that's needed in the vinyl master is attention to the low end >30hz and highs

<16Khz. RMS levels of 6-8db are common in a lot of music which is just ridiculous.

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What's the legal fair use track length limit? Fremer seems to get away with posting short clips. Maybe I could try to link a short vinyl rip clip? What short segment(s) would be most helpful?

A Digital Audio Converter connected to my Home Computer taking me into the Future

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yes ! very much. do you have a link to the genesis?

 

The Wikipedia page for the album has some info.

 

From what I recall, Eno wanted the musicians to do a lot of improvisation sessions, and Bowie would shuffle lyrics, which he used a software for this time.

 

Thing is, Eno knew that usually musicians devolve into playing Blues when asked to improvise together and he didn't want that.

 

So Eno devised a set of personas, one for each of the musicians, Bowie as well. He wrote those on a card and each musician was given his card and his secret persona that the others did not know about.

 

For instance, one musician was a person living in the future where some notes are legally banned, and the persona was to now play those illegal notes during the sessions with the band.

 

The album is a concept album as well.

 

They originally planned to make 3 albums.

 

I think it is best listened to without the spoken segues if you're after the music.

 

To me it's the soundtrack to a Sci-Fi movie.

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Just took a quick look at the Bowie albums currently on ebay, the price gougers are at it already. Guess I'll wait a while to round out some of my DB collection. Have a nice Ziggy MFSL vinyl rip at 24/96 flac, along with a Diamond Dogs vinyl rip 24/96 flac, and Young Americans CD rip flac. Need to fill in a few missing titles with older CD vintages and replace the D Dogs vinyl rip with a vintage CD.

"The gullibility of audiophiles is what astonishes me the most, even after all these years. How is it possible, how did it ever happen, that they trust fairy-tale purveyors and mystic gurus more than reliable sources of scientific information?"

Peter Aczel - The Audio Critic

nomqa.webp.aa713f2bb9e304522011cdb2d2ca907d.webp  R.I.P. MQA 2014-2023: Hyped product thanks to uneducated, uncritical advocates & captured press.

 

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very interesting, thank you. I know of 2 movies that include a track in their soundtrack, one is actually a Sci-Fi movie (Starship troopers ; a cover with altered lyrics) and the other is even further out being by David Lynch (Lost Highway) !

The Wikipedia page for the album has some info.

 

From what I recall, Eno wanted the musicians to do a lot of improvisation sessions, and Bowie would shuffle lyrics, which he used a software for this time.

 

Thing is, Eno knew that usually musicians devolve into playing Blues when asked to improvise together and he didn't want that.

 

So Eno devised a set of personas, one for each of the musicians, Bowie as well. He wrote those on a card and each musician was given his card and his secret persona that the others did not know about.

 

For instance, one musician was a person living in the future where some notes are legally banned, and the persona was to now play those illegal notes during the sessions with the band.

 

The album is a concept album as well.

 

They originally planned to make 3 albums.

 

I think it is best listened to without the spoken segues if you're after the music.

 

To me it's the soundtrack to a Sci-Fi movie.

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Sorry if OT...normally I am all about original CD releases (big time!) but the 2003 Mix of Ziggy that comes in the CD version of the Five Years box set as the alternate version is really good - highest DR in the DB for that title. I ended up just deleting the new 2015 master.

 

DR Peak RMS Filename

----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

 

DR12 -3.90 dB -19.94 dB 01 Five Years.m4a

DR16 -1.49 dB -19.93 dB 02 Soul Love.m4a

DR16 -1.06 dB -19.02 dB 03 Moonage Daydream.m4a

DR14 -2.79 dB -19.29 dB 04 Starman.m4a

DR13 -2.42 dB -19.93 dB 05 It Ain't Easy.m4a

DR15 -1.68 dB -18.75 dB 06 Lady Stardust.m4a

DR13 -2.40 dB -17.04 dB 07 Star.m4a

DR14 -2.18 dB -18.67 dB 08 Hang On To Yourself.m4a

DR15 -1.59 dB -18.09 dB 09 Ziggy Stardust.m4a

DR13 -3.74 dB -17.70 dB 10 Suffragette City.m4a

DR12 -3.12 dB -20.64 dB 11 Rock & Roll Suicide.m4a

----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

 

Number of files: 11

Official DR value: DR14

 

==============================================================================================

A Digital Audio Converter connected to my Home Computer taking me into the Future

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very interesting, thank you. I know of 2 movies that include a track in their soundtrack, one is actually a Sci-Fi movie (Starship troopers ; a cover with altered lyrics) and the other is even further out being by David Lynch (Lost Highway) !

 

You're welcome.

 

Indeed, a cover of "I have not been to Oxford Town", entitled "I have not been to Paradise" is sung by Zoe Poledouris in Starship Troopers. She's Basil Poledouris's daughter (Conan The Barbarian Theme). Lynch's Lost Highway has "I'm Deranged" on it.

 

If you watch David Fincher's Se7en again, you'll find "The Heart's Filthy Lesson" there as well.

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you are right ; that would be seeing it again. Still, I forgot that one : bravo !

You're welcome.

 

Indeed, a cover of "I have not been to Oxford Town", entitled "I have not been to Paradise" is sung by Zoe Poledouris in Starship Troopers. She's Basil Poledouris's daughter (Conan The Barbarian Theme). Lynch's Lost Highway has "I'm Deranged" on it.

 

If you watch David Fincher's Se7en again, you'll find "The Heart's Filthy Lesson" there as well.

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very interesting, thank you. I know of 2 movies that include a track in their soundtrack, one is actually a Sci-Fi movie (Starship troopers ; a cover with altered lyrics) and the other is even further out being by David Lynch (Lost Highway) !

 

After some Internet sleuthing here are the personas for the musicians:

 

Dramatis Personae

 

 

Inside Outside No. 2: Cast of Characters

 

The great thing about games is that they in some sense free you from being yourself. You are “allowed” forms of behavior that otherwise would be gratuitous, embarrassing or completely irrational.

 

Brian Eno.

 

 

Before starting the initial Outside sessions, Brian Eno handed the assembled musicians cards which contained names and “detailed character studies” of the roles they would play in the sessions. Eno later included an extended write-up of this in an appendix in his diary, entitled “Notes on the Vernacular Music of the Acrux Region, Imagining a "New Musical Culture.”

 

There are great differences between what the musicians have recalled for biographies and what Eno wrote in his diary, suggesting both the capriciousness of memory as well as the potential that Eno and the players altered the “storylines” during the recording.

So, presenting:

 

 

David Bowie (vocals): Bowie recalled being told “You are a soothsayer and town crier in a society where all media networks have tumbled down.”

 

 

Eno: You are a member of an early 21st Century “Art and Language” band. You make incantations, permutations of something between speech and singing. The language you use is mysterious and rich – and you use a melange of several languages, since anyway most of your audience now speak a patois that effortlessly blends English, Spanish, Chinese and Wolof. Using on-stage computers, instant sampling techniques and long delay echo systems, you are able to build up dense clouds of colored words during performance. Your audience regards you as the greatest living exponent of live abstract poetry. Samuel Beckett is a big influence.

 

 

Reeves Gabrels (guitar): “Elvas Ge'Beer” Gabrels recalled getting “you’re on the third moon of Jupiter and you’re the house band.”

 

Eno: It’s 2008. You are a musician in one of the new “Neo-Science” bands, playing in an underground club in the Afro-Chinese ghetto in Osaka, not far from the University. The whole audience is high on “dreamwater,” an auditory hallucinogen so powerful that it can be transmitted by sweat condensation alone. You are also feeling its effects, finding yourself fascinated by intricate single-note rhythm patterns, shard-like Rosetta Stone hieroglyphs. You are in no particular key – making random bursts of data which you beam into the performance. You are lost in the abstracted rational beauty of a system no one understands, sending out messages that can’t be translated. You are a great artist and the audience is expecting something intellectually challenging from you. As a kid, your favorite record (in your Dad’s record collection) was Trout Mask Replica.

 

 

Mike Garson (keyboards, piano): “G. Noisemark” Recalled as “You are the morale booster of a small ragtag terrorist operation. You must keep spirits up at all costs.”

 

Eno: You are a player in a Neo-M-Base improvising collective. It is 1999, the eve of the millenium. The world is holding its breath, and things are tense internationally. You are playing atonal, ice-like sheets of sound which hang limpid in the air, making a shifting background tint behind the music. You think of yourself as the “tonal geology” of the music – the harmonic underpinning from which everything else grows. When you are featured, you cascade through glacial arpeggios – incredibly slow and grand, or tumbling with intricate internal confusion. Between these cascades, you fire out short staccato bursts of knotty tonality. You love the old albums of the Mahavishnu Orchestra.

 

Erdal Kizilcay (bass): “Azile Clark-Iday” Recalled as: “You are a Sheik and want to marry a notable man’s daughter, so you have to show him you can play psychedelic Arabic funk.” (This irritated Kizilcay: “I don’t need a letter to play Oriental stuff.”)

 

 

Eno: It’s 2005. You are a musician in a soul-Arab band in a North-African role-sex club. The clientele are rich, sophisticated and unshockable – this is to the Arab world what New York was to the US in the Eighties. You play a kind of repetitive atonal funk with occasional wildly ambitious ornaments to impress your future father-in-law, the Minister of Networks for Siliconia, who is in the audience. You love the recordings of Farid El Atrache.

 

Sterling Campbell (drums): “P. Maclert Singbell” Recalled as “You are a disgruntled member of a South African rock band. Play the notes you are not allowed to play.”

 

 

Eno: You are a musician at “Asteroid,” a space-based club (currently in geostationary orbit 180 miles above the surface of the Moon) catering mainly to the shaven, tattooed and androgynous craft-maintenance staff who gather there at weekends. They are a tough crowd who like it weird and heavy, jerky and skeletal, and who dance in sexy, violent styles. These people have musical tastes formed in their early teens in the mid-Nineties. Your big influence as a kid was the Funkadelics.

 

 

Brian Eno (instigator):

 

 

You are in a suburb of Lagos, the new Silicon Valley, where the Ultra Large Scale Integration industries are all located. The place is littered with wierd night clubs catering to the eclectic international community there, clubs offering “Neo-Science” bands, “Art and Language” bands, and “New Afrotech.” Yours was one of the first New Afrotech bands to appear. The music is based in influences as diverse as Soul, Silicon Techno and Somadelia, but of course all with a very strong African flavor. This manifests in highly percussive and rhythmically complex orchestrations, an aggressive edge reminiscent of the great Nigerian balladeer Fela Ransome and long pieces that open up slowly with multiple climaxes and breakdowns. You are considered one of the great “Crack Rhythm” players on the club scene. Your biggest early influence was Tunde Williams, the trumpet player and horn orchestrator Fela Ransome in the Seventies.

 

 

David Richards (producer/engineer):

 

 

Eno: You are a leading recordist at Ground Zero studios in Hiroshima, the largest studio in the Matsui media empire. It is 1998. You are famous for surprises – when the band listens back to the take, you will, unbeknownst to them, have set up a landscape of sound within which their performance is located. You regard yourself as a “sonic backdrop painter.” You do this using treatments or existing “environmental” sounds and triggered loops or overdubs – any way you please. You work closely with your star assistant whose taste you frequently consult and who has a library of sound effects that you draw on. Your favorite historical figure is Shadow Morton.

 

 

Dominik Tarqua (asst. engineer):

 

 

Eno: It’s 2005. You are MO-tech for NAFTA’s leading ForceFunk band. The job originated in the Sixties and was then called “stage technician,” but as things grew increasingly complex technically, it became clear that many important musical decisions were being resolved in the technological choices made before the band ever mounted the stage. In a sea of options, the person who chooses between them helps determine the work. So the job of Modus Operandi Technician came into being. Your job is to arrange things before performances – choosing what various people should be playing, for instance, which presets on synthesizers should be engaged, which drums should be used, etc. – in such a way that the musicians are put into interestingly new and challenging positions, to notice which of these arrangements work and to encourage them, and also to notice which don’t, and change them. You are especially impressed by artists such as Aphex Twin and the Ambient School.

 

 

Both Richards and Tarqua also played “the audience.” (They had a series of applause loops they would trigger upon hearing something they liked.)

Sources: Paul Trynka’s Starman, Eno’s A Year in Swollen Appendices.

 

 

 

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Further digging brought this: a rework of the unpublished material from the Outside sessions which were supposedly the basis for a more extended first release or the next albums (there's a link to the rework within the article):

 

David Bowie - Leon

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