Barriers to Computer Audio

[JohnSwenson]

I never said that I didn't use Firewire, I was merely answering the question about why people were saying that USB isn't great for audio. If I had a Mac Mini as my directly connected computer music source, I would, without a doubt, use Toslink (optical), but I use a Windows laptop for that chore and the only I/O on that computer even remotely suitable for direct connection to my DAC is USB. It's troublesome and not very reliable and requires a driver from the DAC manufacturer, but there it is. Increasingly, I'm using WiFi to stream my 24/96 music files (and my iTunes rips) from my Mac directly to my Logitech Squeezebox Touch and then to my DAC via Toslink. It's much more reliable than the Win laptop. If I didn't have a bunch of 24/192 files to which I like to listen, I would retire the laptop from audio duty altogether.

 

The SB Touch with the EDO plugin can do 192 over USB, it works very reliably, and sounds great. With my DAC the USB interface is actually better than optical or coax S/PDIF.

 

John S.

[sandyk]

With my DAC the USB interface is actually better than optical or coax S/PDIF.

 

John S.

 

I presume that you are talking about your own DAC that you designed ?

[plissken]

I presume that you are talking about your own DAC that you designed ?

 

I'm spitballing here but I think his first sentence mentions something about some low cost, now out of production DAC with a plug in enabling it to do 192 vs the 96Khz it was designed to play over USB very reliably and sounding great.

 

Buy hey, that just might be me....

[sandyk]

With my DAC the USB interface is actually better than optical or coax S/PDIF.

In which case he wouldn't need to use his own Regen, unless he has done input modifications to this DAC.

Very few standard DACs using generic USB input modules are able to either equal or outperform well implemented Toslink or Coax SPDIF without at least using expensive after-market USB cables etc..

If they were, then there would be only a very small market for John's Regen.

[DEANO2]

Thanks DEANO2

One further point avoid iTunes at all costs, if you don't set it up properly it can change your library without notice ( downsample your rips of CDs and even your hi res downloads).

 

Sent from my SM-T113 using Tapatalk

[Jud]

Laptop, at least 16gb of ram, jriver21, dbpoweramp to rip (it sounds better) use Aiff it's ubiquitous and you don't lose meta data, external storage ( back it up always and frequently) whether Nas or USB external hard drive.

USB capable DAC, half decent cable (Supra), interconnects, Amplification, Speakers or Headphones. DONE, Nuf said. Simple.

 

Sent from my SM-T113 using Tapatalk

 

DEANO2 has mentioned a "half decent [uSB] cable," the Supra. The topic of USB cables and whether they provide any difference in sound quality of the system is a topic of some, errm, "discussion" here, even in our forums, which as you have seen are ordinarily quite peaceful. [sidles out of the way to avoid any divine retributive lightning.] Nevertheless, I want to provide a couple of options for you should you decide to look into USB cables other than the most basic "printer cable" type, one a little more expensive than the Supra, one slightly less expensive.

 

The less expensive cable (~$30 for .75 meter) is the Audioquest Forest. https://www.hideflifestyle.com/catalog/product/view/id/2643/s/audioquest-forest-usb-cable-0-75m/?fee=5&fep=2643&gclid=Cj0KEQiA-ZSzBRDp3ITHm5KO_JYBEiQA1JjHHL8yzqEqO-UazvIcwByQd2-J9pGAKs65v3iru0Ts8p8aAl3Q8P8HAQ

 

The more expensive cable ($135 for 3 feet), and the one I use, is the Mapleshade Clearlink Plus. Male A to Male B - Most Popular-shop.mapleshadestore.com

[fastdart69]

Agree, no plans to use iTunes. Although I have most of my CD's already ripped to iTunes on a desktop PC, I will be repeating this process likely using DB Poweramp and J Rivers Media Center on a separate computer.

[fastdart69]

That explains it. It's just that DragonFly DACs are so famous and have had so much press in the last 3-4 years that I was surprised (taken aback, actually) that anyone interested in audio enough to post to a forum called "Computer Audiophile" could have possibly been unaware of the AudioQuest DragonFly. It's famous because it's both very good and cheap.

I am familiar with (and have used) AudioQuest cables, and based on your post went to their website where I reviewed Dragonfly. There were also couple of nice whitepapers on computer audio that I read. Thanks.

[Jud]

Agree, no plans to use iTunes. Although I have most of my CD's already ripped to iTunes on a desktop PC, I will be repeating this process likely using DB Poweramp and J Rivers Media Center on a separate computer.

 

What format are the rips? There may be no need to do the work of re-ripping.

[Paul R]

In which case he wouldn't need to use his own Regen, unless he has done input modifications to this DAC.

Very few standard DACs using generic USB input modules are able to either equal or outperform well implemented Toslink or Coax SPDIF without at least using expensive after-market USB cables etc..

If they were, then there would be only a very small market for John's Regen.

 

Actually, almost all current USB DACs sound better with their USB input than with the Coaxial or Optical inputs. (shrug) USB protocols and S/PDIF protocols are not that dissimilar.

 

Now, if you go back a few years, the Coaxial and Optical inputs routinely sounded better, but that is not true today. And that is without ruinously expensive USB cables too. $50-$100 for a USB cable puts most people into extraordinary sound.

[Norton]

Actually, almost all current USB DACs sound better with their USB input than with the Coaxial or Optical inputs. (shrug) USB protocols and S/PDIF protocols are not that dissimilar.

 

Each to his or her own, but that's not my experience. From BDP2 Coaxial bettered USB whether into my Hugo, Oppo or Esoteric DACs, each of which pass for "current"', albeit it's the Oppo EU rather than D .

 

Of course this says as much (more even?) about the source than it does the DAC.

[Paul R]

Each to his or her own, but that's not my experience. From BDP2 Coaxial bettered USB whether into my Hugo, Oppo or Esoteric DACs, each of which pass for "current"', albeit it's the Oppo EU rather than D .

 

Of course this says as much (more even?) about the source than it does the DAC.

 

Interesting, I get the opposite results with my Oppo, but I don't have a Hugo or Esoteric here to compare to.

 

I wonder if you put a REGEN or even an iFI Power in front of them, what the difference, if any, would be?

 

-Paul

[Jud]

Of course this says as much (more even?) about the source than it does the DAC.

 

Exactly. Implementation, implementation, implementation, at both sending and receiving units.

[Norton]

Interesting, I get the opposite results with my Oppo, but I don't have a Hugo or Esoteric here to compare to.

 

I wonder if you put a REGEN or even an iFI Power in front of them, what the difference, if any, would be?

 

-Paul

 

I have no experience with the Regen, but if it did indeed eliminate (to my ears) the SQ gap between Coaxial and USB it would certainly be a top value upgrade. However, as I'm quite happy with Coaxial (noting that the BDP also outputs DoP via Coaxial or AES) there's no incentive for me to try, unless USB via Regen is likely to better the BDP's Coaxial which I'm guessing is unlikely. I could be wrong of course...

[Paul R]

I have no experience with the Regen, but if it did indeed eliminate (to my ears) the SQ gap between Coaxial and USB it would certainly be a top value upgrade. However, as I'm quite happy with Coaxial (noting that the BDP also outputs DoP via Coaxial or AES) there's no incentive for me to try, unless USB via Regen is likely to better the BDP's Coaxial which I'm guessing is unlikely. I could be wrong of course...

 

Well, that is top quality gear you are talking about there, but for me at least, the best USB is better than the best Coax or TosLink. Of course, part of that may be DSD and very high sample rate PCM. I suspect you would hear little if any improvement though, given the high quality of your gear.

 

Be fun to try though.

[gmgraves]

Actually, almost all current USB DACs sound better with their USB input than with the Coaxial or Optical inputs. (shrug) USB protocols and S/PDIF protocols are not that dissimilar.

 

Now, if you go back a few years, the Coaxial and Optical inputs routinely sounded better, but that is not true today. And that is without ruinously expensive USB cables too. $50-$100 for a USB cable puts most people into extraordinary sound.

 

 

I would only use SPDIF over USB because it's more reliable than USB over Windows (IMHO). But since I don't know of any Windows laptop that has optical SPDIF out (like Mac laptops do) that the issue is largely academic.

[gmgraves]

Exactly. Implementation, implementation, implementation, at both sending and receiving units.

 

 

By "source", I assumed he was talking about recording quality; 95% of which are garbage -in all genres!

[sandyk]

I wonder if you put a REGEN or even an iFI Power in front of them, what the difference, if any, would be?

 

-Paul

 

Both the Oppo 95 and 103 improve markedly with a battery or Linear powered (+9V) Regen in line with their USB input.

[wgscott]

Both the Oppo 95 and 103 improve markedly with a battery or Linear powered (+9V) Regen in line with their USB input.

 

Is there any evidence (tests, measurements, etc.) available that shows this?

[Audio_ELF]

Both the Oppo 95 and 103 improve markedly with a battery or Linear powered (+9V) Regen in line with their USB input.

Just to clarify... You mean a Regen used with a memory stick connected via the (type a rectangular) USB?

[kumakuma]

Is there any evidence (tests, measurements, etc.) available that shows this?

 

We are audiophiles. We don't need no stinking evidence.

[JohnSwenson]

I'm spitballing here but I think his first sentence mentions something about some low cost, now out of production DAC with a plug in enabling it to do 192 vs the 96Khz it was designed to play over USB very reliably and sounding great.

 

Buy hey, that just might be me....

 

Actually two completely different subjects, sorry for not making it clearer. He was stating that he had to keep the laptop around because the SB Touch could not do 192.

 

The first was that the SBT CAN play 192 over its USB port when using the EDO plugin and that this connection is one of the better USB sources out there, without having to go into all the tweaks that people get into with general purpose computers.

 

The second was in response to the oft mentioned "S/PDIF is vastly superior to USB" stance. The DAC in question is one that has gone through many revisions over 6 years. It started out with S/PDIF, both coax and optical. I spent years working on circuits that get rid of noise and jitter. The result is one of the best S/PDIF interfaces out there.

 

Then about 2 years ago I started adding USB to it. Again I did a lot of work on this to optimize the USB interface, cut down on ground plane noise etc. As it turned out the USB input is slightly better sounding than either S/PDIF input. (I can't tell any difference between coax or optical). I would consider both the S/PDIF and USB inputs to be very well designed and implemented input circuits.

 

BTW a REGEN does make it sound better, which has spurred another round of development, aimed at improving things to the point where that doesn't happen. A lot of work to go on that though.

 

I consider statements along the lines of "USB is garbage, S/PDIF is vastly superior" to not be true, it IS possible to do both very well, although it appears it is rather rare to have both in the same box.

 

John S.

[sandyk]

Just to clarify... You mean a Regen used with a memory stick connected via the (type a rectangular) USB?

 

Yes.

I am presently unable to use USB direct from my PC tt the Oppo 103 using the Regen, as my PC isn't in the main listening room.

[LCC0256]

We are audiophiles. We don't need no stinking evidence.

 

Now THAT was good !!

[BobSherman]

Is there any evidence (tests, measurements, etc.) available that shows this?

 

 

People listen to music please stop trashing every thread. Thank you