ECdesigns

[Varinder]

I think these DAC will not be able compete against Ecdesigns .. bcs fractal DAC technology is where the magic lies ... I have DAC 96 and it outclass Adagion Metrum , Chord Dave and my previous Monarchy DAC by miles ... 

[realDHT]

Varinder did you compare the ECD directly against the Metrum Adagio and the Chord Dave? 

That would be very interesting, as I have not heard from anyone before comparing against these very well regarded DACs before. It would also be very interesting to hear if someone compared directly with for example a totalDac D1 or one of the MSB dacs.

[Varinder]

I and some of my seasoned audiophile frnds have heard those DAC at various systems and on mine as well .. so it’s not difficult to conclude ...Metrum charges 8k fr Adagio I always wondered what’s special in that .. DAC 96 is a different beast blv me .. to ascertain it’s true potential one need to have top quality cables , interconnect , amp and Spkr .. I am using Poland based company Albedo silver cables and Audionote cables , First watt amp and AN spkr ... it’s divine ...One old audiophile frd who was so disillusioned with these hifi systems and was on the brink of quitting this hobby ... after listening to the system has change of heart and waiting fr Power DAC to launch to take a plunge now😁

[Qhwoeprktiyns]

5 minutes ago, Varinder said:

I and some of my seasoned audiophile frnds have heard those DAC at various systems and on mine as well .. so it’s not difficult to conclude ...Metrum charges 8k fr Adagio I always wondered what’s special in that .. DAC 96 is a different beast blv me .. to ascertain it’s true potential one need to have top quality cables , interconnect , amp and Spkr .. I am using Poland based company Albedo silver cables and Audionote cables , First watt amp and AN spkr ... it’s divine ...One old audiophile frd who was so disillusioned with these hifi systems and was on the brink of quitting this hobby ... after listening to the system has change of heart and waiting fr Power DAC to launch to take a plunge now😁

 

I completely relate to that. The funny thing, with the Fractal DAC and a good source (UPL, or otherwise), it just keeps getting better as you improve the rest of your system. This afternoon I assembled copper foil speaker cables, following a "recipe" ECD send me and @Ben75, that I feel just pulled out an extra inch of "awesomeness" (as Huubster would say:) with less distortion across the bendwidth. I put on some old swinging jazz I like (Harry Edison - Mr. Swing) and I was snapping my fingers, bopping my head, and had a big grin in no time !

[Varinder]

I started with very cheap cables as I had 3-4 such cables .. some had base .. some had good mids but no cable was able to do justice .. but this gave me an idea that the DAC has huge potential and then I invested in high quality especially Albedo Monolith cables and once the cables were in place ... it was pure magic .. blv me I am listening to 7-8 hrs daily and last weekend I listened 24 hrs with 2-3 hrs sleep and there was not an iota of fatigue... Kudos to Ecdesigns 

[realDHT]

8 minutes ago, hopkins said:

 

I completely relate to that. The funny thing, with the Fractal DAC and a good source (UPL, or otherwise), it just keeps getting better as you improve the rest of your system. This afternoon I assembled copper foil speaker cables, following a "recipe" ECD send me and @Ben75, that I feel just pulled out an extra inch of "awesomeness" (as Huubster would say:) with less distortion across the bendwidth. I put on some old swinging jazz I like (Harry Edison - Mr. Swing) and I was snapping my fingers, bopping my head, and had a big grin in no time !

Yes the transparacy of the fractal DC is something special.. BTW I also use copper foil speaker cables (extracted from Mundorf copper foil coils), had them in my system for almost 15 years I think. 

[murphythecat87]

1 hour ago, Varinder said:

I think these DAC will not be able compete against Ecdesigns .. bcs fractal DAC technology is where the magic lies ... I have DAC 96 and it outclass Adagion Metrum , Chord Dave and my previous Monarchy DAC by miles ... 

did you compare the Fractal vs the Dave or Adagio?

if so, please share

 

Personally, I cannot wait for the Headphone Power DAC: the added bonus is that it will also feature rca outputs so can also be use a DAC to power your speaker amp as well as being the DAC-Amp for our headphones

[realDHT]

8 minutes ago, murphythecat87 said:

did you compare the Fractal vs the Dave or Adagio?

if so, please share

 

Personally, I cannot wait for the Headphone Power DAC: the added bonus is that it will also feature rca outputs so can also be use a DAC to power your speaker amp as well as being the DAC-Amp for our headphones

One could also drive the loudspeaker directly if the speakers have good sensitivity, not too large room etc... 

[Varinder]

7 minutes ago, murphythecat87 said:

did you compare the Fractal vs the Dave or Adagio?

if so, please share

 

Personally, I cannot wait for the Headphone Power DAC: the added bonus is that it will also feature rca outputs so can also be use a DAC to power your speaker amp as well as being the DAC-Amp for our headphones

With Adagio .. but have heard both extensively... I think Wavelength Rockna DAC  i heard at some frnd place was much better than these overhyped DAC ... Regarding Adagio I once asked Gordon .. that they charge 8 k but I never found anything special .. he replied that they tweaked the sound which was bit different from what people were used to and people just liked it in the beginning but soon that fizzled out .. and he further added you need to digital right not tweaking 

[Qhwoeprktiyns]

42 minutes ago, realDHT said:

Yes the transparacy of the fractal DC is something special.. BTW I also use copper foil speaker cables (extracted from Mundorf copper foil coils), had them in my system for almost 15 years I think. 

 

John suggested the following:

 

- https://europe-audio.com/Product.asp?Product_ID=8636

- https://www.amazon.fr/gp/product/B07QGMDFSH/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b_asin_title_o00_s00?ie=UTF8&psc=1

I ordered the Polyimide tape from China, and found afterwards that Amazon offered the same, for future reference (shipping from China takes ages).

 

You have to lay the tape on a table or on the floor, secure at its edges it with scotch tape, then carefully place 2 foils side by side (5 mm apart at least) on the tape and lay after another layer of polymide  tape over it. For the termination, I simply folded the copper foil edge around a copper solid core wire (as found in mains wire) which I bended in a loop, and secured the bare copper edge with an extra layer of tape. The tips of the wire I secured into banana spades - so no soldering required.  Its easier done by two persons, so potentially a nice little project to keep you busy with your better half during the confined holidays !

[realDHT]

Nice. The Janzen foil coils I think is exactly the same as those Mundorf have. This recepe is somewhat different from my cables. In mine, the plus and minus foils are tightly stacked on top of each other with double sided PE tape in between. That design idea for that was from Allen Wright (RIP) that at the time wrote a 'supercable cookbook'. The idea was to minimize the inductance of the cable by having a thin tape (at the same time this will maximize the capacitance), he also said the tape preventing movements of both foils was important for the sound. The downside being the risk of shortcircuiting the amplifier with a small mistake in the assembly. The trickyness of the assembly sort of grows exponentially with the lenght of the cable :) Guess the same is true for the one you built.     

 

I actually also built a pair with Mundorf 99.99% silver foil cables that sounded great but unfortunately lost that pair several years ago and never found it, might have got thrown away for trash by someone, they looked quite awful 😁

[Ben75]

2 hours ago, realDHT said:

Nice. The Janzen foil coils I think is exactly the same as those Mundorf have. This recepe is somewhat different from my cables. In mine, the plus and minus foils are tightly stacked on top of each other with double sided PE tape in between. That design idea for that was from Allen Wright (RIP) that at the time wrote a 'supercable cookbook'. The idea was to minimize the inductance of the cable by having a thin tape (at the same time this will maximize the capacitance), he also said the tape preventing movements of both foils was important for the sound. The downside being the risk of shortcircuiting the amplifier with a small mistake in the assembly. The trickyness of the assembly sort of grows exponentially with the lenght of the cable :) Guess the same is true for the one you built.     

 

I actually also built a pair with Mundorf 99.99% silver foil cables that sounded great but unfortunately lost that pair several years ago and never found it, might have got thrown away for trash by someone, they looked quite awful 😁

John shared with us an experience he had at a Hifi show : the best system they heard had silver foil speakers interlinks.. but perhaps John will pursue his research for the best loudspeakers interconnects and will share with us his findings?! :-)

[Ben75]

6 hours ago, Varinder said:

Pls check what are the specs of above power DAC made by Russian guy 

« Digital managed volume control » : that sounds really bad... digital controlling the volume has never worked as it apparently degrade the sound.

PowerDAC will be different..

[bodiebill]

15 minutes ago, Ben75 said:

« Digital managed volume control » : that sounds really bad... digital controlling the volume has never worked as it apparently degrade the sound.

PowerDAC will be different..

 

Will the PowerDAC have an analogue volume control? Will it be based on the SVC24 shunt -only attenuator principle? 

[matthias]

10 minutes ago, bodiebill said:

Will the PowerDAC have an analogue volume control? Will it be based on the SVC24 shunt -only attenuator principle? 

 

"Lossless volume control is obtained by programming the supply voltage and with stepped power shunts (parallel with the speaker). Volume can be controlled with an IR remote control."

 

Matt

[bodiebill]

10 minutes ago, matthias said:

"Lossless volume control is obtained by programming the supply voltage and with stepped power shunts (parallel with the speaker). Volume can be controlled with an IR remote control."

 

Thanks Matt! I was too lazy to do my homework :-|

[Varinder]

Latest update from ecdesigns .. new DAPI cum fractal DAC in one box

[Qhwoeprktiyns]

Fantastic ! John told me they "really hit the nail on the head" with this new DAPI. The details go way above my head, and it is best if we leave it to them to explain.

 

If we can benefit from this new interface to the Fractal DAC, moreover with standard SPDIF (no longer the ElectroTOS protocol) without waiting for the whole shebang (PowerDAC) that would be great. Plug in a CD player, a computer with a small USB/Toslink interface, and you are good to go !

[Varinder]

What would be the input options in this box ..?

[Qhwoeprktiyns]

8 minutes ago, Varinder said:

What would be the input options in this box ..?

 

Just what Gordon says, as I understand: toslink input. So you could use the current UPL or U192 as a source, or anything else that provides toslink. What I understand is that DAPI board is going to provide a break-through in terms of "source insensitivity", and therefore an improvement in quality from what we have today. Exciting stuff :)

[Varinder]

Gordon has shared more details with me but it is difficult to comprehend fr me .. 

[Qhwoeprktiyns]

OK, same thing. What I understand is this:

 

- current Fractal DAC will be "upgraded" (from a technical standpoint - commercially, I have no idea whether it will be an entirely new product, whether you will be able to update your unit, etc...) to use this DAPI board. So instead of using the Fractal DAC with the optical ElectroTOS input, you will have a simple standard toslink input. This means that any source outputting toslink can be used (including the current UPL & U192, if you remove the jumpers on the back, to generate standard spdif).

 

- he continues by saying they will also offer a small USB/Toslink converter.

 

- then he mentions the PowerDAC, which will include several more inputs - all converting to optical with the DAPI again receiving the signal and sending it to the DAC.

 

You may want to check with them if it is ok to share his messages here...

 

With ECD, things can quickly change ! It would be nice to get an idea of how definitive these plans are, and when they will offer what.

[matthias]

1 hour ago, hopkins said:

OK, same thing. What I understand is this:

 

- current Fractal DAC will be "upgraded" (from a technical standpoint - commercially, I have no idea whether it will be an entirely new product, whether you will be able to update your unit, etc...) to use this DAPI board. So instead of using the Fractal DAC with the optical ElectroTOS input, you will have a simple standard toslink input. This means that any source outputting toslink can be used (including the current UPL & U192, if you remove the jumpers on the back, to generate standard spdif).

 

- he continues by saying they will also offer a small USB/Toslink converter.

 

- then he mentions the PowerDAC, which will include several more inputs - all converting to optical with the DAPI again receiving the signal and sending it to the DAC.

 

You may want to check with them if it is ok to share his messages here...

 

With ECD, things can quickly change ! It would be nice to get an idea of how definitive these plans are, and when they will offer what.

 

So the info they mentioned on diyaudio

 

The USB / Toslink / Coax DAPI receiver receiver we are now working on will replace the USB-only DAPI receiver if it performs equally well. So we plan to use one universal DAPI receiver for future Projects   is now obsolete?   They also mentioned that the PowerDAC will have direct USB Input.   Would be very nice to get some clarification on forum and not via some TM on phones.   Matt

[Qhwoeprktiyns]

I don't know. The last info provided by Gordon Brown seems consistent with what I was told as well. There is not much to be concerned about. The simple way to look at it is just that they improved on the optical input of the current Fractal DAC, and that they are using standard spdif protocol, the special ElectroTOS protocol is no longer needed. I think we just have to wait and see.

[matthias]

10 minutes ago, hopkins said:

I don't know. The last info provided by Gordon Brown seems consistent with what I was told as well. There is not much to be concerned about. The simple way to look at it is just that they improved on the optical input of the current Fractal DAC, and that they are using standard spdif protocol, the special ElectroTOS protocol is no longer needed. I think we just have to wait and see.

 

But what about DAPI when the only one input which is allowed is SPDIF or Toslink? So all Inputs must be converted to SPDIF or Toslink? Can someone shed some light on what then is so special about DAPI?

Thanks

 

Matt