ECdesigns

[Qhwoeprktiyns]

In the meantime, sit back, relax and enjoy what you have 😊

 

When there is nothing left to say, we can turn to cat pictures for inspiration 😁 here's mine enjoying jazz late at night. 

 

 

Happy new year to everyone! 

[Gavin1977]

On 1/4/2021 at 8:27 AM, Ben75 said:

I would agree about the lack of "truthness" (coloration, etc.) of the Audio GD DACs and Preamp. If you can, Gavin, give a try to this superb preamp I think it will highly reward you with a superb sound (much more close to the true sound in my opinion) :  http://www.thehornshoppe.com/the_truth_pre_amp.html

 

Then you will have to get a great pair of interlink cables, like those one (Hopkins have them and it improved a lot its setup from the previous ones) : Coincident Speaker Technology ST-1 interconnects (http://www.coincidentspeaker.com/cablesindex.htm)

 

Happy new year to everybody!! This is the year of the PowerDAC and DAPI receiver! ;-)

Thanks - The Truth preamp has no remote, so unfortunately no good for me.

[Qhwoeprktiyns]

3 hours ago, Gavin1977 said:

Thanks - The Truth preamp has no remote, so unfortunately no good for me.

Neither does the SVC, which is too bad because it is quite good also... High quality preamps are hard to come by.

[realDHT]

15 minutes ago, hopkins said:

Neither does the SVC, which is too bad because it is quite good also... High quality preamps are hard to come by.

For the ones who are interested in doing a little case and wiring DIY, Khozmo sells remote control upgrades to their shunt attenuators. If you get the 48 step 600R shunt attenuator with remote upgrade, and replace the input resistor with a short wire, it will work very well with the fractal DAC. I use this configuration (without the remote upgrade).

 

https://khozmo.com/products_dale_shunt.html

 

 

[realDHT]

5 minutes ago, realDHT said:

For the ones who are interested in doing a little case and wiring DIY, Khozmo sells remote control upgrades to their shunt attenuators. If you get the 48 step 600R shunt attenuator with remote upgrade, and replace the input resistor with a short wire, it will work very well with the fractal DAC. I use this configuration (without the remote upgrade).

 

https://khozmo.com/products_dale_shunt.html

 

 

I see now that you can actually buy it with nice casing as well :)

https://khozmo.com/stereo_selector.html

Then it will be almost no DIY at all required..

 

[realDHT]

2 minutes ago, realDHT said:

I see now that you can actually buy it with nice casing as well :)

https://khozmo.com/stereo_selector.html

Then it will be almost no DIY at all required..

 

And I'm sure Khozmo will put a wire instead of Rin before delivery if requested, then no DIY at all :)

[bodiebill]

3 hours ago, Gavin1977 said:

Thanks - The Truth preamp has no remote, so unfortunately no good for me.

 

I only use the power stage of my integrated Cayin tube amp. That means I can use the Cayin's remote to operate another preamp as shown here. On the pic it is still the Lightspeed attenuator, but I am planning to do something similar with my current preamp (also The Truth, with thanks to @hopkins) after I have moved house. (With the SVC this option looks less obvious.)

 

[tapatrick]

On 1/4/2021 at 8:58 AM, Ben75 said:

However, John said that they will equip their PowerDAC PS with LT3045 module that could certainly reduce the gap between Fractal PS (that is already very great according to people that use them in the everyday life and compare it with other LPSU) and other LPSU (PH SR4T etc.). This is pure speculation but we can bet for the best! :-)

Speculation for sure but my 2 cents on this subject is that voltage regulators, even the famous by now LT3045 introduce stability and/or noise issues at their output. Even though using the LT3045s can bring big improvements, personally I found issues that only appeared to me over time when experimenting with them in/after my power supplies over the past few years. 

For those interested, often quoted is the ultra low noise output of 0.8uVRMS from the LT3045s but this is measured in a static condition. In real applications, this condition will never exist as load demand is always dynamic and ripple can be re- introduced.

 

The best DC power solution I have looked into is using high capacity super or Ultra capacitors at output which do not have the problem of regs. They have very low impedance with the ability to deliver current quickly and significantly improve the power supply quality by reducing both internal ESR and noise levels, as well as increasing the stability and the optimum delivered current. 

 

This all means no noise is created in the ground plane which ultimately affects the sound. The most important thing is the perfect load response, much better than any regulator.

 

Ian Canada (over on DIYaudio) has released (among other things) a 5V Ultra cap DIY board that works with any existing 5V power supply. I have recently installed 2 of these, powering separately the U192 and the Fractal DAC. I noticed subtle but distinct SQ improvements  - background darker, the sound more dynamic, vivid and richer, overall enhanced SQ... YMMV of course...

 

I am not affiliated with Ian in any way but have followed this development for sometime, so I might inform EC to check this out.

 

[matthias]

1 hour ago, tapatrick said:

I am not affiliated with Ian in any way but have followed this development for sometime, so I might inform EC to check this out.

 

Please do it, agree on the LT3045, OTOH there might be safety issues with the Ian Canada solution when something goes wrong.

 

Matt

[realDHT]

58 minutes ago, tapatrick said:

Speculation for sure but my 2 cents on this subject is that voltage regulators, even the famous by now LT3045 introduce stability and/or noise issues at their output. Even though using the LT3045s can bring big improvements, personally I found issues that only appeared to me over time when experimenting with them in/after my power supplies over the past few years. 

 

If the regulator has stability or noise issues at the output, then it is not working as it should. Often this is because it is not used the way it was designed to. For example the 3045 was not really designed to be used in an external regulator module with cables attached to the output etc, then the performance might be unpredictable depending on cable length and what load you connect it to. 

[tapatrick]

15 hours ago, realDHT said:

 

If the regulator has stability or noise issues at the output, then it is not working as it should. Often this is because it is not used the way it was designed to. For example the 3045 was not really designed to be used in an external regulator module with cables attached to the output etc, then the performance might be unpredictable depending on cable length and what load you connect it to. 

Sure, externally with long cables - that would be the wrong way to use voltage regs. In the interest of this thread and discussions on achieving best DC power solutions, this is backed by my and others listening and measurement tests.

[tapatrick]

16 hours ago, matthias said:

 

Please do it, agree on the LT3045, OTOH there might be safety issues with the Ian Canada solution when something goes wrong.

 

Matt

I have been using Ultra caps both in DIY solutions and commercially (from Ciunas) with great results for over a year with no issues. But it goes without saying electricity and DIY should always be handled with extreme care. 

[matthias]

23 minutes ago, tapatrick said:

I have been using Ultra caps both in DIY solutions and commercially (from Ciunas) with great results for over a year with no issues. But it goes without saying electricity and DIY should always be handled with extreme care. 

 

Is the Ian Canada solution only available as a kit for DIY or also assembled and tested?

What about the SQ of UC PS: Ian Canada vs Ciunas?

Thanks

 

Matt

 

[Ben75]

19 hours ago, tapatrick said:

Speculation for sure but my 2 cents on this subject is that voltage regulators, even the famous by now LT3045 introduce stability and/or noise issues at their output. Even though using the LT3045s can bring big improvements, personally I found issues that only appeared to me over time when experimenting with them in/after my power supplies over the past few years. 

For those interested, often quoted is the ultra low noise output of 0.8uVRMS from the LT3045s but this is measured in a static condition. In real applications, this condition will never exist as load demand is always dynamic and ripple can be re- introduced.

 

The best DC power solution I have looked into is using high capacity super or Ultra capacitors at output which do not have the problem of regs. They have very low impedance with the ability to deliver current quickly and significantly improve the power supply quality by reducing both internal ESR and noise levels, as well as increasing the stability and the optimum delivered current. 

 

This all means no noise is created in the ground plane which ultimately affects the sound. The most important thing is the perfect load response, much better than any regulator.

 

Ian Canada (over on DIYaudio) has released (among other things) a 5V Ultra cap DIY board that works with any existing 5V power supply. I have recently installed 2 of these, powering separately the U192 and the Fractal DAC. I noticed subtle but distinct SQ improvements  - background darker, the sound more dynamic, vivid and richer, overall enhanced SQ... YMMV of course...

 

I am not affiliated with Ian in any way but have followed this development for sometime, so I might inform EC to check this out.

 

It seems you are right.. It could be beneficial if you get a call to EC Designs (as they do not respond a lot to Emails those times). Would be great!

 

Did you installed the 2 Ultra Capacitors in your PH SR4? Is the PH SR4 using a LT3045 module?

[matthias]

6 minutes ago, Ben75 said:

Is the PH SR4 using a LT3045 module?

 

"The SR4 uses the same ultra low noise high performance discrete component voltage regulator as the highly regarded SR5 and SR7 power supplies."

 

Matt

[tapatrick]

7 hours ago, matthias said:

 

Is the Ian Canada solution only available as a kit for DIY or also assembled and tested?

What about the SQ of UC PS: Ian Canada vs Ciunas?

Thanks

 

Matt

 

Ian Canada 5v (and 3.3V) Uc boards are high quality but need the Ultracaps purchasing and soldering so yes they are DIY

I've not done that test as the Ciunas PS I have is 7V - the UC boards are 5V.

[tapatrick]

6 hours ago, Ben75 said:

It seems you are right.. It could be beneficial if you get a call to EC Designs (as they do not respond a lot to Emails those times). Would be great!

 

Did you installed the 2 Ultra Capacitors in your PH SR4? Is the PH SR4 using a LT3045 module?

I use the UC 5V modules after 2x PH SR4s (5V USB into the U192 and 5V into the Fractal DAC) and before anyone asks yes they enhance the SQ - more vivid and dynamic, very, very satisfying :). The biggest advantage of the UC modules is that they would enhance any 5V power supplied that just needs to supply the 5V.. so can be very cost effective.

 

There are other suppliers of Ultra cap PSUs that can be investigated too.

[matthias]

52 minutes ago, tapatrick said:

I use the UC 5V modules after 2x PH SR4s (5V USB into the U192 and 5V into the Fractal DAC) and before anyone asks yes they enhance the SQ - more vivid and dynamic, very, very satisfying :). The biggest advantage of the UC modules is that they would enhance any 5V power supplied that just needs to supply the 5V.. so can be very cost effective.

 

There are other suppliers of Ultra cap PSUs that can be investigated too.

 

How big is the impact of the feeding PS to the UC 5V modules on the SQ?

When you replace the SR4 as feeding PS with something more ordinary what happens to the sound?

Maybe with one of the bigger Apple 5V PS?

Thanks

 

Matt

[matthias]

@tapatrick

 

Do you refer to this board?

 

https://www.audiophonics.fr/en/power-supply-accessories/ian-canada-ucconditioner-ultra-capacitor-conditioner-board-5v-p-14591.html

 

BTW, it is some kind of passive power supply and would absolutely fit in the philosophy of ECD not to use active amps for their devices.

 

Matt

[Qhwoeprktiyns]

I went to a dealer a couple days ago to audition Stax headphones. I listened to the SR-L700MK2 headphones plugged into the SRM-700T amplifier. The source was Qobuz, through an Auralic Aries G2 streamer and a B.Audio DAC. So pretty expensive and reputable gear. I played a lot of tracks I listen to frequently at home. The headphones are super light and comfortable, very transparent and dynamic. But there was something that was not as engaging as my current headphone set up at home (UPL + Fractal + SVC into the Mosaic UV - not used as a DAC - and Beyerdynamic heaphones).

 

Maybe it was so transparent, and I am not used to it ? I actually felt that there was something missing - the feeling that the music "breathes" - that little micro-detail that makes a saxophone sound more real (and perhaps imperfect in some ways).

 

Impossible to know what contributed to that impression ! I should have taken the ECD set with me :)

 

BTW, 15 years ago I listened to a pair of Stax headphones with one of their tube amps, but using a Wadia 860 CD player as a source (this was before Qobuz), and it left me a much better impression. I even remember the CD (Jeanne Lee et Mal Waldron).

[Varinder]

4 minutes ago, hopkins said:

I went to a dealer a couple days ago to audition Stax headphones. I listened to the SR-L700MK2 headphones plugged into the SRM-700T amplifier. The source was Qobuz, through an Auralic Aries G2 streamer and a B.Audio DAC. So pretty expensive and reputable gear. I played a lot of tracks I listen to frequently at home. The headphones are super light and comfortable, very transparent and dynamic. But there was something that was not as engaging as my current headphone set up at home (UPL + Fractal + SVC into the Mosaic UV - not used as a DAC - and Beyerdynamic heaphones).

 

Maybe it was so transparent, and I am not used to it ? I actually felt that there was something missing - the feeling that the music "breathes" - that little micro-detail that makes a saxophone sound more real (and perhaps imperfect in some ways).

 

Impossible to know what contributed to that impression ! I should have taken the ECD set with me :)

Stax are transparent and dynamics .  One may get wow factor in the beginning but after certain days one gets bored bcs the musicality.. that feel of the music is not that deep ... By the way I was just going through the review of Aries Cerat Kasaandra DAC MK2 on mono and stereo by .. what I found that they r doing somewhat on similar lines what ECd are doing to reduce jitter and other thing .. I may be wrong bcs I am not technically solid .. just go through ... seems interesting 🤔 

[numlog]

Have you ever used electrostatic or orthodynamics before?
There was some sbaf discussions a while back on these technologies struggling with microdetail, it was my impression aswell with orthos, they just sound grey and flat compared to dynamics, even in the bass where they have low THD and almost flat subbass extension the bass is still far more realistic from dynamics in timbre and speed.
Orthos seem to be improving each year, not sure how the current ones are.

 

[Qhwoeprktiyns]

Thanks to you both for your interesting input. Aside for that one time, a long time ago, I had not tried electrostatic, and never tried orthodynamics either. I have a pair of Grado as well, which I find interesting. I ordered a tube headphone amp, because I have always been curious about tube amps (and was impressed with the phono preamp I got from the same vendor): https://hagerman-audio-labs.myshopify.com/products/tuba-vacuum-tube-headphone-amplifier. I'll see. It is fun to try out various things - getting a little off topic, sorry.

[realDHT]

29 minutes ago, hopkins said:

I went to a dealer a couple days ago to audition Stax headphones. I listened to the SR-L700MK2 headphones plugged into the SRM-700T amplifier. The source was Qobuz, through an Auralic Aries G2 streamer and a B.Audio DAC. So pretty expensive and reputable gear. I played a lot of tracks I listen to frequently at home. The headphones are super light and comfortable, very transparent and dynamic. But there was something that was not as engaging as my current headphone set up at home (UPL + Fractal + SVC into the Mosaic UV - not used as a DAC - and Beyerdynamic heaphones).

 

Maybe it was so transparent, and I am not used to it ? I actually felt that there was something missing - the feeling that the music "breathes" - that little micro-detail that makes a saxophone sound more real (and perhaps imperfect in some ways).

 

Impossible to know what contributed to that impression ! I should have taken the ECD set with me :)

 

BTW, 15 years ago I listened to a pair of Stax headphones with one of their tube amps, but using a Wadia 860 CD player as a source (this was before Qobuz), and it left me a much better impression. I even remember the CD (Jeanne Lee et Mal Waldron).

When it comes to the engaging music thing my guess is because you are used to the ECD dac..you would definately need to use the same DAC for a good comparision IMHO. I'm a STAX fan but only had the SR-404 and the Omega 2, never heard the newer models. Never heard any STAX amplifiers either, as I always built my own driver amps. Some people say the STAX amps are the weakest link, but I still think the system should sound really good anyway.

 

Were the system you auditioned regularly used in the store, or at least warmed up a few hours before you listened?

I have found (also read others) that for some strange reason, sound is worse for the first few hours if the system is not used for a longer time period.. some say its because the membanes lose charge and needs time to somehow reach recharge properly.

 

 

[Qhwoeprktiyns]

1 minute ago, realDHT said:

When it comes to the engaging music thing my guess is because you are used to the ECD dac..you would definately need to use the same DAC for a good comparision IMHO. I'm a STAX fan but only had the SR-404 and the Omega 2, never heard the newer models. Never heard any STAX amplifiers either, as I always built my own driver amps. Some people say the STAX amps are the weakest link, but I still think the system should sound really good anyway.

 

Were the system you auditioned regularly used in the store, or at least warmed up a few hours before you listened?

I have found (also read others) that for some strange reason, sound is worse for the first few hours if the system is not used for a longer time period.. some say its because the membanes lose charge and needs time to somehow reach recharge properly.

 

 

 

I was also wondering about that. I listened for about 30 min, but the amp had not warmed up before, and it is possible that the headphones had not had much use. Impossible to know about all these things (source/dac included). That's why it is always better to test things at home for extended periods, if possible. It certainly got me curious...