ECdesigns

[Varinder]

I have tried DAC 96 with Stax electrostatic headphone basic model SR L300 with its basic SRM 2525 amp ... the DAC basically completely lifted its performance to altogether a different level ..this Stax model lacks punch in lower frequencies unlike its costlier siblings .. after plugging it ( Mac Mini- U192 -DAC 96-Stax 2525 amp - Stax headphone) .. it completely lifted it to the level of its costlier siblings 

[Qhwoeprktiyns]

3 hours ago, tims said:

To get a sense of what the DAC is capable of connected directly to headphones (with no volume control control) is it possible to say what the minimum sensitivity would have to be?  My Ultrasone Signature Pro's supposedly have 98dB sensitivity and 32 Ohm impedance - any thoughts if this is enough or even too sensitive?

Thanks.

 

I have tried with Beyerdynamic DT990 Pro, which is 250 Ohm and a sensitivity of 96db, and the volume is a little high to be used directly connected to the DAC, so with the Ultrasone it would be even higher I assume. If you don't have the SVC, you could try software volume control, or another volume pot.

[Qhwoeprktiyns]

1 hour ago, Varinder said:

I have tried DAC 96 with Stax electrostatic headphone basic model SR L300 with its basic SRM 2525 amp ... the DAC basically completely lifted its performance to altogether a different level ..this Stax model lacks punch in lower frequencies unlike its costlier siblings .. after plugging it ( Mac Mini- U192 -DAC 96-Stax 2525 amp - Stax headphone) .. it completely lifted it to the level of its costlier siblings 

 

Thanks. I tried a Stax headphone many years ago and have since always wanted to spend more time listening. This entry level system is relatively "affordable" and i will try to test it here in Paris if I can. 

[realDHT]

5 hours ago, tims said:

To get a sense of what the DAC is capable of connected directly to headphones (with no volume control control) is it possible to say what the minimum sensitivity would have to be?  My Ultrasone Signature Pro's supposedly have 98dB sensitivity and 32 Ohm impedance - any thoughts if this is enough or even too sensitive?

Thanks.

It is a good thing to have the high sensitivity, but the low impedance is still a problem in combination with the fractal DAC. There was some discussion here recently if the 375 Ohm output impedence of the DAC can be a problem, and this is a good example of that. You will probably get a soft rolled-off sound like Bodiebill described with his 50 Ohm headphones.  

[Qhwoeprktiyns]

10 minutes ago, realDHT said:

It is a good thing to have the high sensitivity, but the low impedance is still a problem in combination with the fractal DAC. There was some discussion here recently if the 375 Ohm output impedence of the DAC can be a problem, and this is a good example of that. You will probably get a soft rolled-off sound like Bodiebill described with his 50 Ohm headphones.  

 

Thanks. This is what you can read here, for example: https://sites.google.com/view/quipa/faq-hub/output-impedance

If you follow this, it would make sense to have a separate headphone amp over using the DA96+SVC and adapters, for example, but ECD seems to think that it is ok for higher impedance headphones. I only have a small portable headphone amp to compare it to, but it has its own DAC, so apples and oranges.

[realDHT]

1 hour ago, hopkins said:

 

Thanks. I tried a Stax headphone many years ago and have since always wanted to spend more time listening. This entry level system is relatively "affordable" and i will try to test it here in Paris if I can. 

 

For most of the time I use a STAX Omega II with a tube amp I built specific for this. The DAC goes directly to the amp. Resolution is increadible in the whole range and there is a natural warmth of female voices and strings etc,that is partly lost when I use my Speaker system with ASP.      

[Qhwoeprktiyns]

1 minute ago, realDHT said:

 

For most of the time I use a STAX Omega II with a tube amp I built specific for this. The DAC goes directly to the amp. Resolution is increadible in the whole range and there is a natural warmth of female voices and strings etc,that is partly lost when I use my Speaker system with ASP.      

 

Interesting. I was curious in fact to try a tube headphone amp. That with the O2 must be pretty good :) 

[realDHT]

7 minutes ago, hopkins said:

 

Thanks. This is what you can read here, for example: https://sites.google.com/view/quipa/faq-hub/output-impedance

If you follow this, it would make sense to have a separate headphone amp over using the DA96+SVC and adapters, for example, but ECD seems to think that it is ok for higher impedance headphones. I only have a small portable headphone amp to compare it to, but it has its own DAC, so apples and oranges.

 

Yep, I think I read sometime on ECD webpage that they modified the DAC for 200 Ohms output impedance when using their headphones (600 Ohms?) directly.

[realDHT]

6 minutes ago, hopkins said:

 

Interesting. I was curious in fact to try a tube headphone amp. That with the O2 must be pretty good :) 

 

It is indeed. Tube are great for electrostatic headphones since the phones require a high voltage push-pull signal, the headphone design matches tube amps perfectly. Sometimes you can find old models like SR-404 or even old Stax Lambdas with amplifiers for very good prices and those are close to the O2 in sound IMO. (I had a SR404 before)  

[Varinder]

Hi frnds yesterday there was mention of Diretta ..and I was told that it’s not right platform to discuss .. but I would share thatcher stuff is quite intriguing ... the philosophy behind is something similar on Ecdesigns as the whole chain should be pure digital or pure analogous as John mentions to do the things right ...  in Diretta they say host is server ( digital) and target is usually analogue .. due to these anomalies ... they have come  with different protocol to adress the issue to reduce electrical noise ... lately they have come with software in the form of USB stick ( just like Euphony) ... I think we can explore this to see how it contributes in enchancingvEcdesigns DAC performance 

[Qhwoeprktiyns]

1 hour ago, Varinder said:

Hi frnds yesterday there was mention of Diretta ..and I was told that it’s not right platform to discuss .. 

 

 

 

Sorry, you are right, let us know if it improves upon the U192 and reaches the level of the UPL, or beyond... 

[Varinder]

I had mailed to the Diretta regarding some query .. their reply is attached ...I think by using their trial version one can make out if it offers plausible difference in sq compared to Euphony , Audirvana Swinsian etc  but I am still not clear wether they will provide some link to upload on usb stick or one is to buy the USB stick fr trial 

[Norton]

13 hours ago, hopkins said:

Curious to know if anyone with the DAC (and therefore one of the two ECD sources) has used it with headphones?

On occasion I use my Fractal/UPL with Ergo2 HPs via my DNM pre amp HP output.  Sounds really good and draws attention to the level of detail and lack of grain or distortion compared with other digital sources

[Qhwoeprktiyns]

@Varinder

 

You'll find a link to download the software here:

 

http://forum-hifi.fr/thread-19836-post-445233.html#pid445233

[Varinder]

16 minutes ago, hopkins said:

@Varinder

 

You'll find a link to download the software here:

 

http://forum-hifi.fr/thread-19836-post-445233.html#pid445233

Thanks 🙏.. As I am using Mac Mini with u192 and DAC96  .. will it work or another way by using windows laptop with U192 plus DAC 96 .. what I need to do .. Pardon me fr my lack of technical know how 

[Qhwoeprktiyns]

1 minute ago, Varinder said:

Thanks 🙏.. As I am using Mac Mini with u192 and DAC96  .. will it work or another way by using windows laptop with U192 plus DAC 96 .. what I need to do .. Pardon me fr my lack of technical know how 

 

Can't help unfortunately, I have not looked into this and don't plan to... 

[Varinder]

35 minutes ago, hopkins said:

 

Can't help unfortunately, I have not looked into this and don't plan to... 

Have you tried Euphony with DAC 96 ? .. I am currently using Euphony trial version with U192 and DAC ... earlier tried Audirvana .. Euphony is much much better ...taken the performance of U192 to a different level  . Lately I heard about Laufer media playerMP64  from USA .. they are also offering some hardware and software solutions.. seem very intrguing .. there is a review of their player where the designer share his ideas on tacking electric noise and other such stuff .. they are quite different from others we see in market . One  frnd bought their Player fr 20k Singapore dollars .. he has tried other high end players but he says it’s a different beast ...

[Qhwoeprktiyns]

43 minutes ago, Varinder said:

Have you tried Euphony with DAC 96 ? .. I am currently using Euphony trial version with U192 and DAC ... earlier tried Audirvana .. Euphony is much much better ...taken the performance of U192 to a different level  . Lately I heard about Laufer media playerMP64  from USA .. they are also offering some hardware and software solutions.. seem very intrguing .. there is a review of their player where the designer share his ideas on tacking electric noise and other such stuff .. they are quite different from others we see in market . One  frnd bought their Player fr 20k Singapore dollars .. he has tried other high end players but he says it’s a different beast ...

 

I have not tried any of these. Am happy with the UPL. But do give us your impressions. The UPL is a good benchmark for comparison. 

[Ben75]

On 12/31/2020 at 12:42 PM, Gavin1977 said:

Founds part of the answer... the DA96 has 375 Ohm output impedance, my existing T+A DAC 8 DSD has 22 ohms output impedance.

 

Therefore a preamp should help the lower registers, the Master 9 I have on order has an output impedance of 1 ohm - so should drive anything well.

 

Thanks

I would agree about the lack of "truthness" (coloration, etc.) of the Audio GD DACs and Preamp. If you can, Gavin, give a try to this superb preamp I think it will highly reward you with a superb sound (much more close to the true sound in my opinion) :  http://www.thehornshoppe.com/the_truth_pre_amp.html

 

Then you will have to get a great pair of interlink cables, like those one (Hopkins have them and it improved a lot its setup from the previous ones) : Coincident Speaker Technology ST-1 interconnects (http://www.coincidentspeaker.com/cablesindex.htm)

 

Happy new year to everybody!! This is the year of the PowerDAC and DAPI receiver! ;-)

[matthias]

13 minutes ago, Ben75 said:

Happy new year to everybody!! This is the year of the PowerDAC and DAPI receiver! ;-)

 

+1

 

Matt

[Ben75]

On 12/31/2020 at 5:59 PM, matthias said:

 

Maybe, but what about the source issue when other DACs with the same laptop deliver the slam?

BTW, ECD seem to run their devices with laptops (from Apple) as well.

 

Matt

Yes but :

- It seems as U192 + Macbook Air is really nice but not great at all.. In comparison the UPL96 is far better!

- Their OB loudspeakers topology can be challenged ...

- It hink they use in the everyday life the UPL96 as it is far better than the U192 (except when you feed it with the Innuos ZEN mini & Paul Hynes SR4(T).

- That is why they developped the DAPI receiver : to reach a better level than the UPL96 with streaming/S/PDIF source.

 

I think Huubster is right here ! Source is really important with the U192 and the Fractal is completely a crazy machine!

 

However, John said that they will equip their PowerDAC PS with LT3045 module that could certainly reduce the gap between Fractal PS (that is already very great according to people that use them in the everyday life and compare it with other LPSU) and other LPSU (PH SR4T etc.). This is pure speculation but we can bet for the best! :-)

[matthias]

29 minutes ago, Ben75 said:

- It hink they use in the everyday life the UPL96 as it is far better than the U192 (except when you feed it with the Innuos ZEN mini & Paul Hynes SR4(T).

- That is why they developped the DAPI receiver : to reach a better level than the UPL96 with streaming/S/PDIF source.

 

I do only streaming from Qobuz (and prefer Macbooks) so the superiority of the UPL does not interest me at all. 

But I appreciate every effort to close the gap to the U192 with DAPI and better power supplies.

 

Matt

[matthias]

2 hours ago, Ben75 said:

However, John said that they will equip their PowerDAC PS with LT3045 module that could certainly reduce the gap between Fractal PS and other LPSU (PH SR4T etc.). 

 

To close the gap between the U192 and the UPL it would make more sense in my understanding to provide even better power supplies for the U192.

 

Matt

[Qhwoeprktiyns]

2 hours ago, matthias said:

 

To close the gap between the U192 and the UPL it would make more sense in my understanding to provide even better power supplies for the U192.

 

Matt

 

What may be beneficial today may not be tomorrow if the "source insensitivity" is improved ?

[matthias]

I am REALLY curious what DAPI brings to the party regarding the differences between U192 and UPL.

 

Matt