ECdesigns

[Qhwoeprktiyns]

2 minutes ago, matthias said:

 

Let me give an example.

The Etherregen has two sides, A and B. The A-side ports are specified for 1Gbps, the B-side ports are specified for 100Mbps since there are isolating chips involved which do not have the higher specs of these of the A-side.

While Uptone Audio claims that connecting the downstream gear to the B-side sounds best, the owners of the Taiko Extreme found that the A-side sounds best.

So it would be interesting what @tapatrick found with his EtherRegen and the ECD devices.

 

Matt

 

This is completely unrelated to the bandwidth limiting that is going on inside the ECD units. Respectfully, you are taking bits and pieces of information, all with the term "bandwidth" in them, and drawing conclusions from them where you should not. 

[matthias]

3 minutes ago, hopkins said:

This is completely unrelated to the bandwidth limiting that is going on inside the ECD units. 

 

I do not think that it is completely unrelated. 

 

Matt

[tapatrick]

5 hours ago, FIndingit said:

So U192 and Fractal dac sound terrible now? Ok. 

no

[Qhwoeprktiyns]

17 minutes ago, matthias said:

 

I do not think that it is completely unrelated. 

 

Matt

 

It is, but It is not worth arguing about this here. You can write to ECD about this if you are confident that their efforts have been going in the wrong direction 🙂

[tapatrick]

7 hours ago, tims said:

Thanks for the review.  What cable are you using for the clean 5v injection - is it a Ghent cable or diy?

Also, have you tried powering the Pi 2 and the U192 from the same SR4.  I wonder if the isolation by using two SR4's is a significant factor as well?

Yes I use a Ghent cable - see previous posts. I did also use a DIY version and was the same SQ, just not as tidy.

I havn't tried using the SR4s to power more that one device as in the past I've not found this beneficial due to grounding issues.

[tapatrick]

4 hours ago, Huubster said:

Very interesesting tapatrick, thanks. I assume you use a 'dual-headed' USB cable to do so? Signal coming from RPi and 5v from another source? 

It's a USB cable with a connector at the end for the 5V input. To put this in context the EC combo always sounds good and apart from relative differences I have detected and posted about I consider this one of the most significant improvements.

[tapatrick]

1 hour ago, matthias said:

While Uptone Audio claims that connecting the downstream gear to the B-side sounds best

Yes but the change is not as much as isolating the USB 5V from the Pi.

[matthias]

18 minutes ago, tapatrick said:

Yes but the change is not as much as isolating the USB 5V from the Pi.

 

I am just curious did you compare ER A-side only vs. crossing the moat to the B-side with your ECDs?

Another question:

How good is the USB Vbus output of your Antipodes in comparison to the PH powered with the Y-cable?

Thanks

 

Matt

[matthias]

deleted

[tapatrick]

8 hours ago, matthias said:

 

I am just curious did you compare ER A-side only vs. crossing the moat to the B-side with your ECDs?

Another question:

No I did this back when I first got the ER and found the Uptone recommendation B side to be best

8 hours ago, matthias said:

How good is the USB Vbus output of your Antipodes in comparison to the PH powered with the Y-cable?

Pretty good as the Antipodes internally has a Sotm USB hub feeding the USB output and I could easily live with it - the PH 5V added is slightly better.

By now you might have noticed that I'm no longer interested in splitting hairs on differences in the way I used to like doing. The EC Combo is as I have mentioned many times a game changer. I cannot put the changes they bring in the same categories as changing a cable or other tweaks and I have less interest in pursuing these kinds of comparisons as it is endless.

 

My interest in trying the Pi 2 (which I consider to be the worst possible source on its own) was to find out what is the range of benefit that the EC Combo brings. When I say the basic Pi was terrible, this is a relative statement and I'm sure many would find the SQ okay as the EC combo still deals with it adequately, just not enough for my tastes.

 

I am convinced however that I don't think you need to buy an expensive server or an EtherRegen once you have a EC combo - only a fairly decent source and a decent PSU. I already had invested in the equipment I have over time and the EC combo to me is the flowering of what I was looking for. After a few months this has only been confirmed and time has helped me to tease out what the rest of my system brings to the overall SQ. Hope this helps.

[matthias]

To sum up the listening tests of @tapatrick I would say the U192 needs a proper power supply to be independent from USB Vbus power.

IMO, if source independency is the aim of ECD they should develop their own power supply for the U192.

 

Matt

[bodiebill]

Not sure, but does this look similar to U192ETL+TosLink?

https://www.msbtechnology.com/accessories/prousb/

[tapatrick]

16 minutes ago, bodiebill said:

Not sure, but does this look similar to U192ETL+TosLink?

https://www.msbtechnology.com/accessories/prousb/ 

That looks like a variation on USB/fibre extenders of which there are many examples and price levels. They pop up occasionally as a solution for USB isolation. EC seem to have taken this much further.  

[tapatrick]

57 minutes ago, matthias said:

To sum up the listening tests of @tapatrick I would say the U192 needs a proper power supply to be independent from USB Vbus power.

IMO, if source independency is the aim of ECD they should develop their own power supply for the U192.

 

Matt

Possibly, let’s see how this unfolds. I would first prefer to see multiple reports of listening tests that have come to the same conclusion that I have. It’s a helpful way to get round the problems of reading online claims. - even my own. So far we have 1 or 2 which is not enough to come to a definitive conclusion.
 

The EC combo is remarkable and I hope that this is kept in mind.  

[Superdad]

How do folks in the USA purchase EC Designs components?  Their web shop does not offer selection of shipping to here in the states.  Also, what is the lead time presently? It is not clear to me.

Thanks,

—Alex C.

[matthias]

6 hours ago, bodiebill said:

Not sure, but does this look similar to U192ETL+TosLink?

https://www.msbtechnology.com/accessories/prousb/

 

I asked ECD about the MSB ProUSB on diyaudio. They replied as follows:

 

https://www.diyaudio.com/forums/digital-line-level/79452-building-ultimate-nos-dac-using-tda1541a-772.html#post6302417

 

Matt

[matthias]

6 hours ago, tapatrick said:

Possibly, let’s see how this unfolds. I would first prefer to see multiple reports of listening tests that have come to the same conclusion that I have. It’s a helpful way to get round the problems of reading online claims. - even my own. So far we have 1 or 2 which is not enough to come to a definitive conclusion.

 

Agree,

but going from A to B was the biggest jump in SQ with adding source independent power to the U192.

IMO, it is not a trivial task to find the best PS for the U192, ECD knows best for sure what to develop.

 

Matt

[Qhwoeprktiyns]

2 hours ago, Superdad said:

How do folks in the USA purchase EC Designs components?  Their web shop does not offer selection of shipping to here in the states.  Also, what is the lead time presently? It is not clear to me.

Thanks,

—Alex C.

 

AFAIK they are not shipping outside the EU for the time being, but you should contact them about this. 

[bodiebill]

3 hours ago, matthias said:

I asked ECD about the MSB ProUSB on diyaudio. They replied as follows:

https://www.diyaudio.com/forums/digital-line-level/79452-building-ultimate-nos-dac-using-tda1541a-772.html#post6302417

 

Thanks Matt, I missed that.

[Tzougie]

2 hours ago, matthias said:

 

Agree,

but going from A to B was the biggest jump in SQ with adding source independent power to the U192.

IMO, it is not a trivial task to find the best PS for the U192, ECD knows best for sure what to develop.

 

Matt

I feed all my ECD gear, UPL, U192ETL, fractal DAC each with a separate shunt power supply from tentlabs, the result is astonishing, it's a must to give each unit his own separate linear low noise power supply, regardless what ECD is saying, that there gear don't benefit from a other power supply then the one they deliver, or supplied by a noisy USB source.

[matthias]

17 minutes ago, Tzougie said:

I feed all my ECD gear, UPL, U192ETL, fractal DAC each with a separate shunt power supply from tentlabs, the result is astonishing, it's a must to give each unit his own separate linear low noise power supply, regardless what ECD is saying, that there gear don't benefit from a other power supply then the one they deliver, or supplied by a noisy USB source.

 

Thanks for sharing.

Do you think that the Tentlabs PS is superior to the standard ECD PS for the Fractal DAC?

 

Matt

[tapatrick]

5 hours ago, Superdad said:

How do folks in the USA purchase EC Designs components?  Their web shop does not offer selection of shipping to here in the states.  Also, what is the lead time presently? It is not clear to me.

Thanks,

—Alex C.

Hi Alex, Yes best to check with John Brown I’m sure they would accommodate you. 
 

If not maybe a contact in Europe could purchase for you. I received my U192 and Fractal DAC in a week or so. Regarding US Power supplies you would only need to supply 5V 1a to the DAC through a USB B connector and similarly the U192 takes 5V from the USB source Cable.  Not sure how the USB transport is powered if you wanted that too.  

[Tzougie]

28 minutes ago, matthias said:

 

Thanks for sharing.

Do you think that the Tentlabs PS is superior to the standard ECD PS for the Fractal DAC?

 

Matt

Yes it is, I opened the fractal power supply, it isn't even stabilized, just recitified and filtered, any stabilized PS will do a better job, the TL
PS are very low noise, they are intended for low noise heater supply, I used them with success in the former ECD stuff.

[bodiebill]

2 minutes ago, Tzougie said:

Yes it is, I opened the fractal power supply, it isn't even stabilized, just recitified and filtered, any stabilized PS will do a better job, the TL
PS are very low noise, they are intended for low noise heater supply, I used them with success in the former ECD stuff.

 

Do I understand it right that you use a linear power supply to feed the Tentlabs 5VDC version?

What voltage is the LPS? I guess it should be from 8 to 12VDC?

Would you have a picture?

[Tzougie]

25 minutes ago, bodiebill said:

 

Do I understand it right that you use a linear power supply to feed the Tentlabs 5VDC version?

What voltage is the LPS? I guess it should be from 8 to 12VDC?

Would you have a picture?

No, the input of a TL PS is say about 8 V AC, the TL PS can deliver 5 V DC 1500 mA.

In the photo you'll see a PS witn 4 TL PS 5  V, powered by 2 toroids for optimal separation.