ECdesigns

[matthias]

1 hour ago, Norton said:

Things do seem to have stabilised, in that this new generation of PowerDACs look to be relatively minor updates on immediately previous offerings, mainly to do with cases.

The author of the YT with the PowerDAC-SX posted this about the comparison to the previous powerDAC:

https://www.whatsbestforum.com/threads/hopkins-system.35850/page-3#post-914653

It is quite clear that the SQ is much better with the new model. Most certainly every new generation will be sonically superior to the previous generation since the tech behind the PowerDAC is ever-evolving.

 

Matt

[M_audio]

Did anyone compare EC Designs to Holo Audio Spring 3 DAC?

[matthias]

1 hour ago, M_audio said:

Did anyone compare EC Designs to Holo Audio Spring 3 DAC?

Please have a look at the posts of @bodiebill at page 105 of this thread.

But afaik he moved on to other DACs.

 

Matt

[M_audio]

PowerDAC BX is finally available, just in for Christmass :D

But i just bought PowerDAC B 2nd hand since i could wait anymore since summer when i sold my DAC. 

Should come in these days. I plan to use it direct via 3m TOSLINK from Macbook Pro, this is how EC Designs also develops or tests their DACs. Eventually step up to Singxer SU-6 / USB->TOSLINK.

[Perri]

31 minutes ago, M_audio said:

PowerDAC BX is finally available, just in for Christmass :D

But i just bought PowerDAC B 2nd hand since i could wait anymore since summer when i sold my DAC. 

Should come in these days. I plan to use it direct via 3m TOSLINK from Macbook Pro, this is how EC Designs also develops or tests their DACs. Eventually step up to Singxer SU-6 / USB->TOSLINK.

Just use a rPi3/4 with linear PSU and a decent chine Toslink top hat and maybe also buy a cheap Chinese media convertor , as Singxer is nothing special .

[M_audio]

Here is a system as simple as possible. Sometimes less is more.

Just connected my MacBook Pro TOSLINK to PowerDAC B optical in.
PowerDAC B feeds - a Fosi V3 integrated little f***r which i got just for fun.
It is a provisoric system, while am i waiting for pre/amp.
 
But tell you what - i was amazed from the 1st sound of this little system! A minute before Chord Mojo fed by Innous Phoenix via Curious Evolved shortest cable possible was playing here. And this - much better! Worlds.
And suddenly the need for DDCs disappeared. Even the optical cable is cheapo Amazon optical!

Ok Fosi V3 has these discrete op amps Class A called Sparkos added which costed more than than the little f***r Fosi. Otherwise it sounds a bit mechanical.

Now what with the pre/amp on the way? I like Less is More. Learned it in my home-office system that the more elements you have the more sound you loose.
Here also the red John Blue JB3 speaker - no x-over, no magnetic shielding no nothing. With 2-way system you need an x-over, but every x-over has its disadvantages. Also a widebander has it. But it does not lose anything on x-over caps and so on. Yeah bass will not shatter you. But i had my days in the clubs with shattering bas. Now i wanna listen to where the most music happens and this little John Blue is amazing at it.

I must say i didn't see that coming. I had the original Mosaic T16 which was amazing but sometimes smoothed out some background details (in my pretty warmish system).

But this - a breeze of fresh air!

 

[Michael L]

Thanks for posting your impressions. I'm eager to hear more reports from other buyers. My purchase will have to wait a while. All spent out.

[M_audio]

17 hours ago, Michael L said:

Thanks for posting your impressions. I'm eager to hear more reports from other buyers. My purchase will have to wait a while. All spent out.

Your welcome. You still can sell out your HiFi system, buy a 250€ Fosi V3 with Sparkos and you can probly afford the newer and better PowerDAC BX. 😃 That's how i did it. Sold out my HiFi components and downgraded..
I was waiting since summer for BX but than gave up and wanted to got with a DAC-Preamp and Amp. Then came by chance over PowerDAC B and was like OK i'm gonna try it. I still have my Cardas Beyond + XL cabling. i think it contributes to the sound of Fosi V3 which also uses a better SPS than standard, with a Teddy Pardo DC cable silver over copper.

And i ordered 13 feet Lifatec optical. Hope it is not too long to profit from it's quality.

Wanna prevent the USB path if possible, i had it for so many years, and still use it in home-office, but now is time for something new.
With TOSLINK i can see there is no Integer mode, but still more dynamic and fresh sound via Macbook Pro optical. Even a bit forward. I give it to the Macbook Pro TOSLINK out. No smoothing out, sharp transients, even via this cheap plastic optical. go figure.
Gonna see what Lifatec is going to bring to the table. Had a short one b4 with Mosaic.
A possible bigger add on would be also Mutec MC3 which has TOSLINK in/out. But 1st gotta get the pre and amp next week.
 

[tapatrick]

Just ordered the PowerDac SX and should arrive in a couple of days. It's the only addition I've considered for some time. If it's what it promises, I'll have a very simple system and will most likely be selling some much loved components... Will be very curious to see if the Memory Player continues to make any difference or not.

[M_audio]

Continuing the report on PowerDAC B.
Since i was amazed by the sound from MacBook Pro optical out, i decided that i'm so done with USB and wanna go the optimal, pardon, optical way. Optical is how EC Designer designed it in the 1st place.
The Optical In is there because EC Designs started with Mac Pro and Macbook Pro optical out.

So i ordered a Mutec MC3+, mind you without that evil USB, and here it is.
Not yet burned in, cold OOB, but the certain V-"forwardness" i experienced via MBP optical is gone! Sound got also more fluid and less sharp. Mutec is literally hanging on the heavy Cardas Clear powercord which is Beyond.
Still  plastic Toslinks. Lifatec 13 feet will come.
Still on Fosi V3 Sparkos. Will change soon too, but i might go back for the sake of simplicity.

[Khronos]

On 12/9/2023 at 6:49 AM, M_audio said:

Here is a system as simple as possible. Sometimes less is more.

Just connected my MacBook Pro TOSLINK to PowerDAC B optical in.
PowerDAC B feeds - a Fosi V3 integrated little f***r which i got just for fun.
It is a provisoric system, while am i waiting for pre/amp.
 
But tell you what - i was amazed from the 1st sound of this little system! A minute before Chord Mojo fed by Innous Phoenix via Curious Evolved shortest cable possible was playing here. And this - much better! Worlds.
And suddenly the need for DDCs disappeared. Even the optical cable is cheapo Amazon optical!

Ok Fosi V3 has these discrete op amps Class A called Sparkos added which costed more than than the little f***r Fosi. Otherwise it sounds a bit mechanical.

Now what with the pre/amp on the way? I like Less is More. Learned it in my home-office system that the more elements you have the more sound you loose.
Here also the red John Blue JB3 speaker - no x-over, no magnetic shielding no nothing. With 2-way system you need an x-over, but every x-over has its disadvantages. Also a widebander has it. But it does not lose anything on x-over caps and so on. Yeah bass will not shatter you. But i had my days in the clubs with shattering bas. Now i wanna listen to where the most music happens and this little John Blue is amazing at it.

I must say i didn't see that coming. I had the original Mosaic T16 which was amazing but sometimes smoothed out some background details (in my pretty warmish system).

But this - a breeze of fresh air!

 

 

Currently my PowerDAC BX rests in its box while a proper DDC arrives from Japan, but I must disagree with you that Bass is not thunderous. Assuming your amplifier is capable of passing square waves in both the voltage and current domain (Satri Circuit Laboratories in my personal experience), you will be rewarded with the driest, tautest, most hard-hitting bass you could wish for. I connected it to a Blusound Node X I use for Home Theater duties, and other than the mild "glare" from the nyquist noise up top (I'm 21 years old, so my ears are not quite as rolled off yet) I can say the sound is too perfect. You can heard the small changes the engineers do throughout songs. You could probably even reverse engineer the settings on their tables with some practice. And the stage is atmospheric to say the least. I cannot wait to fully assemble this system. It's endgame for sure (Dac-wise at least).

[Superdad]

4 hours ago, Khronos said:

Currently my PowerDAC BX rests in its box while a proper DDC arrives from Japan…

 

May I ask what DDC model from Japan you will be using?

[tapatrick]

Just plugged in the new PowerDac SX - just one box.  I've been listening for an hour or 2 - streaming via toslink, through Macbook pro, CD player (audiolab 6000CDT) and even the TV. Shockingly good and seamless SQ from top to bottom! The transparency is a revelation, spine tingling.

 

We've all heard the hyperbole many times before but I have to say this is awesome, simply WOW!, incredible clarity mixed with manuka honey pouring into the ears.  Gordon & John have conquered the digital dilemma in my opinion, certainly for me. Havn't been this excited about audio for a while.. And there is no question about Bass being light.

 

Looks like I'll be selling my beloved Decware Amps among other items...

 

 

[Khronos]

4 hours ago, Superdad said:

 

May I ask what DDC model from Japan you will be using?

Satri Circuit Laboratories USC-1001, I like the brand.

[Perri]

With my PowerDAC the bass is not light at all it is

more about getting a synergy with your setup which I

believe is very difficult when getting to such a high degree of

sound quality .

 

 

[M_audio]

On 12/14/2023 at 10:07 PM, tapatrick said:

Just plugged in the new PowerDac SX - just one box.  I've been listening for an hour or 2 - streaming via toslink, through Macbook pro, CD player (audiolab 6000CDT) and even the TV. Shockingly good and seamless SQ from top to bottom! The transparency is a revelation, spine tingling.

 

We've all heard the hyperbole many times before but I have to say this is awesome, simply WOW!, incredible clarity mixed with manuka honey pouring into the ears.  Gordon & John have conquered the digital dilemma in my opinion, certainly for me. Havn't been this excited about audio for a while.. And there is no question about Bass being light.

 

Looks like I'll be selling my beloved Decware Amps among other items...

 

 

Xactly my experience!

And your new PowerDAC SX should be even better than the prior version.
But i was also surprised, didnt xpect this level of transparency and speed and naturalness. Somethin' Else album now sounds pretty close to what i had with my 5k analogue system (fully balanced from MC to the amp). In some aspects even better - the groove factor with PowerDAC is even better and instruments are clearer. 

Why should bass be light  😆

[M_audio]

On 12/14/2023 at 1:56 PM, Khronos said:

 

Currently my PowerDAC BX rests in its box while a proper DDC arrives from Japan, but I must disagree with you that Bass is not thunderous. Assuming your amplifier is capable of passing square waves in both the voltage and current domain (Satri Circuit Laboratories in my personal experience), you will be rewarded with the driest, tautest, most hard-hitting bass you could wish for. I connected it to a Blusound Node X I use for Home Theater duties, and other than the mild "glare" from the nyquist noise up top (I'm 21 years old, so my ears are not quite as rolled off yet) I can say the sound is too perfect. You can heard the small changes the engineers do throughout songs. You could probably even reverse engineer the settings on their tables with some practice. And the stage is atmospheric to say the least. I cannot wait to fully assemble this system. It's endgame for sure (Dac-wise at least).

That's hilarious, your younger than i have experience with HiFi. But don't worry, i started early like you so i'm still not over 50. While it is true that hearing is of course better in younger age and it generally declines with progressing age, it is also very often individual. Some of the factors that can make it or brake it are among other the diet! There are studies that show typical pro-inflammatory diet will affect you hearing negatively and even contribute to tinitus. On the other side holistic diet will help you keep your hearing intact well into mature age. So no beers at audiophile meetings.

While it is true that the amp is mostly responsible for good bass, there is a number of other factors. I will state only few:

1. speakers and synergy with amp. 
2. your room.
3. Source

In your chain i already see the weak link . Bluesound Node. Get rid of that and get a decent source.

Satri this, Satri that. I have experience with Satri circuits as i owned a Bakoon amp and while it was a special amp, it had also serious flaws. So Satri circuit does not mean anything and can even be bad in specific settings.

Anyhows, you dont disagree with me, i never said bass were thunderous. It just depends on too many factors. For now i love the double basses in jazz bands. With PowerDAC B music has a high groove factor when it has to have it, and is highly relaxed when it is supposed to be. Not looking for measurements, although my background are exact sciences. In the end, music is a feeling.

[yogibear]

Quite curious how would DAC BX with a nice amp compare to SX….

[Perri]

Just now, yogibear said:

Quite curious how would DAC BX with a nice amp compare to SX….

I think the PowerDAC sounds better with a pre/power setup more dynamic .

[yogibear]

Very true, I have a DHT preamp before the amp with B. 

Resurrected my Potpourri OB LA and change is quite exhilarating with some tracks compared to the Bookshelves…

 

 

[Khronos]

1 hour ago, M_audio said:

That's hilarious, your younger than i have experience with HiFi. But don't worry, i started early like you so i'm still not over 50. While it is true that hearing is of course better in younger age and it generally declines with progressing age, it is also very often individual. Some of the factors that can make it or brake it are among other the diet! There are studies that show typical pro-inflammatory diet will affect you hearing negatively and even contribute to tinitus. On the other side holistic diet will help you keep your hearing intact well into mature age. So no beers at audiophile meetings.

While it is true that the amp is mostly responsible for good bass, there is a number of other factors. I will state only few:

1. speakers and synergy with amp. 
2. your room.
3. Source

In your chain i already see the weak link . Bluesound Node. Get rid of that and get a decent source.

Satri this, Satri that. I have experience with Satri circuits as i owned a Bakoon amp and while it was a special amp, it had also serious flaws. So Satri circuit does not mean anything and can even be bad in specific settings.

Anyhows, you dont disagree with me, i never said bass were thunderous. It just depends on too many factors. For now i love the double basses in jazz bands. With PowerDAC B music has a high groove factor when it has to have it, and is highly relaxed when it is supposed to be. Not looking for measurements, although my background are exact sciences. In the end, music is a feeling.

 

I understand. Currently I'm a fair bit of a Tool fan so I doubt I'll have perfect hearing by the time I'm 30.

 

My main listening is on a set of LSA HP-2s modified by JM Audio supported by an Audio Envy Tonekraft cable. To my ears, they lack ultimate detail and they are definitely not neutral, but back in May, when I went to Pacific Audio Fest and tried several Summit-Fi Headphones and Amps, I can say the only one that could match it or surpass it where it is important to me are the ZMF Caldera. In the words of the guy at a certain headphone amp table: "These are... very holographic." The PowerDAC BX takes this to the next level. I'm reading on speaker building and eventually hope to make my own custom loudspeakers with the ESS AMT, a clone of the Altec 755, and series first order filters.

 

I'm not much of a basshead. I say Bass as I've found dry, fast bass is a good measure to listen for transient quality. I understand why you say "Satri This, Satri that". I haven't plunged deeper into SCL's offerings and I only own a CAP-1003. Personally where it is important it to me it is a near-perfect amp. I can understand why you would say it is flawed, since it has a sound that can hardly synergize with anything less than perfect. At least with my Hiby RS2 and Audio Envy Wiring and LSA HP-2s I found excellent synergy, though the DAC was definitely holding  everything back. Which is why I plunged on the POWERDAC-BX. It's a dry sound, but it is excellent, there's a holistic way everything comes together. My Audio Envy RCAs are on their way,  so I only used some Anticables which definitely colored the sound a fair bit. Many would call these wires fairly uncolored and given how immediate their flaws came through I think this means the system's fairly transparent.

 

As a side note, I preferred the SCL to several well-regarded, mid to high four figure amplifiers. Pride of ownership? Bias? Maybe. All I know is that I dislike the high frequency ringing from negative feedback.

 

What's a good digital source on your opinion?

 

But let me disgress, I've definitely hijacked the thread a good bit at this point.😣

[Khronos]

45 minutes ago, yogibear said:

Very true, I have a DHT preamp before the amp with B. 

Resurrected my Potpourri OB LA and change is quite exhilarating with some tracks compared to the Bookshelves…

 

 

I've always looked at those speakers and wondered if covering the center of the middle two drivers may help with the highs (because of the whizzer). It's a very nice setup, though.

[yogibear]

It took a while to garner all those drivers except the bottom one. The top two drivers are Matsushita / Technics / National 8PW1 with phase plugs and extend to 17k, measured at my listening position. Third from the top is another un-ubiquitous Calrad from Japan with a whizzer cone and bottom one is discontinued Lii Audio F8 with excellent chassis. Top two have extended HF response and bottom two have better LF extension. The total sensitivity stands at 100dB plus @8 ohms. Top and bottom drivers are new and need break in time. Yes, the top most driver been sitting in its box for the last 50 years as I bought it. Bottom most had been in the box for last 7 years.

 

DHT Preamp is DIY by me including the Tube amp, which is SE and plays 6L6 tubes and also 807 / EF12N with an adapter. 
 

Dell Alienware is optimized for audio on windows 10. 
 

Perfectly happy with ECDesigns DAC, won’t look at any other ever. No need to. But curious to try one of their latest models too. 
 

 

[Khronos]

15 minutes ago, yogibear said:

It took a while to garner all those drivers except the bottom one. The top two drivers are Matsushita / Technics / National 8PW1 with phase plugs and extend to 17k, measured at my listening position. Third from the top is another un-ubiquitous Calrad from Japan with a whizzer cone and bottom one is discontinued Lii Audio F8 with excellent chassis. Top two have extended HF response and bottom two have better LF extension. The total sensitivity stands at 100dB plus @8 ohms. Top and bottom drivers are new and need break in time. Yes, the top most driver been sitting in its box for the last 50 years as I bought it. Bottom most had been in the box for last 7 years.

 

DHT Preamp is DIY by me including the Tube amp, which is SE and plays 6L6 tubes and also 807 / EF12N with an adapter. 
 

Dell Alienware is optimized for audio on windows 10. 
 

Perfectly happy with ECDesigns DAC, won’t look at any other ever. No need to. But curious to try one of their latest models too. 
 

 

You seem like someone who reads Glow in the Dark Audio as well. 😄

 

I admit I don't have experience with vintage drivers (I have some Coral Holey baskets awaiting for when I buy a soldering iron, though), but based off from your YouTube videos, the sound is very nice! The high efficiency must also make it so realistic sound levels are breezy on the amp, how good are they with large scale orchestra?

 

Regardless, it's nice to see somebody finally starting to achieve their nirvana (Guess all there's left is fiddling with the electronics' circuits and driver combination).

 

Are you by any chance acquainted with the work of J.C Morrison? The technicalities go over my head, but his circuits are masterful.

https://www.labjc.com/

[Khronos]

11 hours ago, Perri said:

I think the PowerDAC sounds better with a pre/power setup more dynamic .

A shot in the dark, but I wonder if it's because the Powerdac SX is more regulating the signal as is without taking into consideration any extra electrical draw the speaker might have? In the end it's by design a bunch of switches and resistors between a load and a linear power supply, meaning it's regulating rather than supplying. It lacks the voltage to support bass trasients if you listen closely to Stephane Ls videos on Youtube (the PowerDAC S also seemed to suffer from this, though at a lesser level.)

 

Though that also makes me wonder why it wouldn't be drawing extra power from the PSU (keyword: regulator,  maybe?) as it would with something that has active devices in it. The PowerDAC BX definitely does not soften the transients after all.

 

I'm not an electrical engineer, though, so feel free to tar and feather me.