ECdesigns

[murphythecat87]

6 minutes ago, Gavin1977 said:

Everyone is looking for some hyping different, but for me it’s the Aqua La Voce S3 which is the best.  I do prefer the La Scala, but more expensive.  Aqua Formula not so much.

 

I’ll leave you to decided on the rest. 

the aqua is circa 5000$, the powerdac is around 1000$.is there a dac around the power dac that I should also consider?

[Gavin1977]

13 minutes ago, murphythecat87 said:

the aqua is circa 5000$, the powerdac is around 1000$.is there a dac around the power dac that I should also consider?

The only way is to buy them and listen…

[mhhd]

16 hours ago, Huubster said:

 

By now it's a long time ago, but the thing I remember is that its sound footprint is quite equal to the Fractal DAC. But it has more dynamics, it has more silent background, and that's why you hear more. But still with the same analog feel to it as you are already used to. It's much more realistic and enjoyable.

 

Doing the mods makes it even better, and not just a little bit. With the mods, and especcially with the separate LPS it's insanely good and a lot better then out of the box. So clean, so precise, far more depth in the sound stage, and improving the natural timbre of instruments. Sounds comes from the complete silent background. I was not realising how much 'noise' there still was, masking a lot of information I can now hear very clearly. 

Hello Hubster,

Thank you for your description. This is good news! I like the sound signature of the Fractal Dac, so I will not miss anything as long as I do not listen to the PD-R ;-) At the same time there is the posibility to move forward within the same sound signature.

Thanks again!

[mhhd]

17 hours ago, Huubster said:

 Hi mhhd, the red Blackgates are in the power supply circuit of the DAC, which is the analog part so to say.

 

But to be honest, these red devils turned out not to be what I was looking for. After many weeks these things keep changing somehow and it got too sterile for my taste. Currently I have a combination of Silmic II and Audio Note Kaisai in there, which I seem to like much more . 

 

But at the moment I also upgraded the Power Supply of the PD-R, I use a Farad Super3 on the PD, which is huge step from the original LPS (which I modded quite a bit too with better parts including a discrete voltage regulator). 

 

So there is still a lot to win on the already great performance of the PD ' out of the box' , a nice bonus to be able to grow further incrementally 🙂

Thanks Huubster!

Do you have some experience with nichicon KZ (Muse)? There is always the discussion if Silmic or Muse is the one better suited. I use a slightly modfied Allo Shanti as PSU for the DA96 :-)

Thanks again.

 

Anyone else out there with an opinion on Nichicon Muse vs Elna Silmic in the power supply circuit?

Thanks for any comment!

[Jacob]

About Power Suply for the PD-R .... you should try this one  - it will blow your mind!!

http://www.qlshifi.com/en/wzcapi/ps1.htm

 

Jacob.

 

[realDHT]

On 12/16/2022 at 5:27 PM, mhhd said:

Would anyone of you be so kind to elaborate a little more on the difference of the PD-R to the U192/DA96 combo? I am still a happy owner and I am curious what I am currently missing :-) How do you experience the difference in detail and extend?

Thank you very much in advance!

I should add that since a year or so, My PD-R has been substantially modified, not only with several independent powersupplies and shunt regulators, but also the clocking. You can check the post below for more detail.

 

However I do remember also some impressions of comparing the original PD-R to the Fractal, before this mod project.

I agree that they share a similar basic character, but the PDR was in comparison more resolving and and more enjoyable, made it easier to "follow the music" in rythm/melody. Also showcased larger and more natural "color of tone" difference between separate intruments in  orchestral recordings for example. 

 

A big advantage with the PD-R is a much better RFI isolation from the source, in my opinion the isolation is perfect or at least close enough, I do not hear a difference between sources (music servers/computers) with the PD-R. With the Fractal I can clearly hear the impact of source.

[matthias]

The most interesting PowerDAC for me is the PD-B.

 

It is quite new, does someone have experiences with it?

 

Thx

 

Matt

[Jacob]

 

34 minutes ago, matthias said:

The most interesting PowerDAC for me is the PD-B.

 

It is quite new, does someone have experiences with it?

 

Thx

 

Matt

Will have soon ... should arrive to me in 2 weeks.
Ordered the QLS USB Bridge to convert to SPDF
http://www.qlshifi.com/en/wzcapi/qu02.htm

[Huubster]

9 hours ago, Jacob said:

About Power Suply for the PD-R .... you should try this one  - it will blow your mind!!

http://www.qlshifi.com/en/wzcapi/ps1.htm

 

Jacob.

 

Very interesting concept! Do you have this one yourself Jacob? Do you have some comparisons done with other LPS's? 

 

I believe in the theory behind the design, but it does not automatically garantuees it sounds good :)

[matthias]

13 minutes ago, Jacob said:

Ordered the QLS USB Bridge to convert to SPDF

...and then via ElektroTos to PD-B?

 

Matt

[matthias]

2 hours ago, realDHT said:

I do not hear a difference between sources (music servers/computers) with the PD-R.

 

Interesting, what about differences between software players?

 

Matt

[realDHT]

8 minutes ago, matthias said:

 

Interesting, what about differences between software players?

 

Matt

I did not try different players, I always used JRiver MC. With the fractal DAC I did some experiments long time ago comparing different dithers in the player using plugins, that is supposed to be a very slight manipulation of the signal but it was audible for me. Most damaging was resampling, both upsampling and downsampling in the player made things clearly worse. The 64-bit digital volume in JRiver worked fine for me, although I know John always recommends bitperfect. With the Powerdac I never tried those things since I always run it bitperfect.

 

   

[matthias]

12 minutes ago, realDHT said:

I did not try different players, I always used JRiver MC. With the fractal DAC I did some experiments long time ago comparing different dithers in the player using plugins, that is supposed to be a very slight manipulation of the signal but it was audible for me. Most damaging was resampling, both upsampling and downsampling in the player made things clearly worse. The 64-bit digital volume in JRiver worked fine for me, although I know John always recommends bitperfect. With the Powerdac I never tried those things since I always run it bitperfect. 

 

I asked because I hear differences (MacbookPro / USB DAC) between Audirvana Studio and Audirvana 3.5.50 (both upsampling deactivated and the same settings)) and both are supposed to be bit perfect. 

 

Matt

[murphythecat87]

anyone uses the Powerdac-R for headphones?

[mhhd]

On 11/18/2022 at 2:59 PM, Perri said:

So I threw in some Sanyo Oscon SEPC and an Elna Starget in my U192ETL and it improved the sound considerably in regards to the Power DAC R so it seems the internal reclocker and the Toslink connection is not the solve all solution as John suggests . Well at least in my opinion as there is clearly considerable improvements to be had by better quality filtering capacitors . IanCanadas FifoPi seems of interest after this even though I still think he is over charging for his product . Would be interesting if the reclocker within the Power DAC could be improved upon as it seems John builds to a price and this also makes me wonder if he uses shunt regulated power supplies which are from my knowledge the bees knees of PSU design for a DAC .

Hi Perri,

Did you choose the mix of Oscon SEPC and Elna Starget on purpose or did you use what was on hand?

I am just in the phase of modding and every help is highly appreciated :-)

Thanks a lot.

[Perri]

11 hours ago, mhhd said:

Hi Perri,

Did you choose the mix of Oscon SEPC and Elna Starget on purpose or did you use what was on hand?

I am just in the phase of modding and every help is highly appreciated :-)

Thanks a lot.

I chose the Starget for fit as I think they are good at price per value/sound point and chose the SEPC as they are meant to be good on digital circuits though sometimes they can be harsh oscillations supposedly . I have Blackgates Nichicon Muse and Audionote Kasei etc etc but chose these for some reason and so far they do not irritate me and I like the sound a lot lol .

 

It does seem that ECDesigns U192 and variants do limit the sound quality and good back the DAC but finding out what will improve upon it at a price per value spot is hard to do .

 

Spending over 600 on such a unit I think is not sensible .

[Michael L]

On 1/5/2023 at 2:36 AM, Perri said:

I chose the Starget for fit as I think they are good at price per value/sound point and chose the SEPC as they are meant to be good on digital circuits though sometimes they can be harsh oscillations supposedly . I have Blackgates Nichicon Muse and Audionote Kasei etc etc but chose these for some reason and so far they do not irritate me and I like the sound a lot lol .

 

It does seem that ECDesigns U192 and variants do limit the sound quality and good back the DAC but finding out what will improve upon it at a price per value spot is hard to do .

 

Spending over 600 on such a unit I think is not sensible .

Not sure I understand this sentence.

[Michael L]

I am interested to hear reviews on the Powerdac B.

The other power dacs I find aesthetically challenging and I have no wish to change my loudspeakers. They also seem to be a solution which rules out analogue sources like phono.

I cannot see any sense in using an ADC, especially when I own a very good MC phono amplifier.

Still wondering about buying a used previous generation EC D system but once the brave new world in audio they have fallen into disfavour in the same way as my MOS16 set up.

[Perri]

1 hour ago, Michael L said:

Not sure I understand this sentence.

Nor do I lol never respond late at night when you should be sleeping .

[tapatrick]

On 1/12/2023 at 10:26 AM, Michael L said:Still wondering about buying a used previous generation EC D system but once the brave new world in audio they have fallen into disfavour in the same way as my MOS16 set up.

I wouldn’t believe everything that can be read online.  I still have the fractal Dac with UPL and haven’t felt a need to buy anything else. Daily I am convinced that the EC designs Dac is superb.

 

This was after a decade seeking a solution to the annoying  ‘digital’ sound quality of other highly rated (and expensive) components I tried. 

 

I believe from reports on here that the Power Dacs are even better but still am not tempted. It’s a great place to get to, to find ongoing satisfaction with a system and to just focus on the music. 

[Norton]

4 hours ago, tapatrick said:

I still have the fractal Dac with UPL and haven’t felt a need to buy anything else. Daily I am convinced that the EC designs Dac is superb.

+1. Still enjoying my Fractal+UPL.  To my ears the latter is an essential part of the mix, pity ECD haven’t developed it further.  Would have been great to see a DSD/384 capable DAC+UPL combo from ECD.

 

I could be tempted by a PowerDAC B, but not clear what makes it a PowerDAC (and how it differs from the R, other than form factor and absence of on-board volume.

[Michael L]

On 12/17/2022 at 10:22 PM, Jacob said:

 

Will have soon ... should arrive to me in 2 weeks.
Ordered the QLS USB Bridge to convert to SPDF
http://www.qlshifi.com/en/wzcapi/qu02.htm

Hi Jacob. Have you received your PowerDacB yet? Be good to hear your opinion on it.

[mhhd]

 

On 12/16/2022 at 6:07 PM, mhhd said:

Hi @Huubster, @yogibear and @Perri,

I realized that you used capacitors known as the best for analog circuits, not the ones like os-cons, polymer, etc. usually named as the ones for digital circuits. Does the fractal design behave like an analog circuit in this respect? Or did you choose just what was on hand. I am a amateur regarding these details, so you help would reduce my trials :-)

My DA96 has Nichicon KA fitted and I would like to improve...

Thanks a lot!

Hello,

After bothering you all with a lot of questions on tweaking the EC Designs units I ended up with a very satisfying result.
The units (u192etl, da96etf) were originally equipped with Nichicon KA: 4x330uf 6.3v in the u192etl, 5x330uf 6.3v in the da96etf.
Encouraged by some of you I startet swapping the caps:

The u192etl improved by fitting 4x560uf 6.3v Panasonic SEPC (one of the newer oscon lines).

The da96etf was a different story. First I tried 5x560uf 6.3v Panasonic SEPC. They sounded very detailed, but partly harsh and very thin. I swapped one of the caps back to the original 330uf 6.3v Nichicon KA. The low range improved significantly but the harsch sound stayed. Second trial was to swap all to Nichicon KZ. I had to use 100uf 25v versions due to space restrictions, so this was quite a kind of challenge to squeeze approx. 14 pieces of them into the unit :-) They sounded nice, detailed, but still on the polite side of dynamics. 100 hours burn in did not change a lot, so I was a little frustrated, given the praise these caps get everywhere. They are known for providing very low bass, but I could only use the 25v versions. These are said to be not as good as the 50v versions....
I did not find a lot information about the nichicon KA series that were originally in all units (at least in mine). In some nichicon marketing info the Ka series was praised for delivering massive bass. Bass was what I was missing... So I added some of the original nichicon KAs to the nichicon KZ and WOW! there it was: detailed but natural, full sound!
So the current mixture is:
u192etl:4x560uf 6.3v Panasonic SEPC
da96etf: 3x330uf 6.3 Nichicon KA
14x100uf 25v nichicon KZ

Very special thanks to @Perri and @Huubster for encouraging me and for the supporting information!
regards,
mhhd

[Michael L]

Power Dac B is looking increasingly desirable but I'm wondering if I need to spend extra on peripherals. I have a combined headphone/optical output on my MacBook but I still have the ATOS usb to toslink from my MOS16.

The limitation is I believe playing >96Khz files without splashing £££ on a usb convertor with Electrotos. I'm wondering if I would miss out at all and doubt I would hear any difference between files of 96 khz and 192 Khz with the same bit depth.

 

https://www.videoproc.com/resource/why-24-bit-192-khz-music-downloads-make-no-sense.htm

[Perri]

6 hours ago, Michael L said:

Power Dac B is looking increasingly desirable but I'm wondering if I need to spend extra on peripherals. I have a combined headphone/optical output on my MacBook but I still have the ATOS usb to toslink from my MOS16.

The limitation is I believe playing >96Khz files without splashing £££ on a usb convertor with Electrotos. I'm wondering if I would miss out at all and doubt I would hear any difference between files of 96 khz and 192 Khz with the same bit depth.

 

https://www.videoproc.com/resource/why-24-bit-192-khz-music-downloads-make-no-sense.htm

Stock with what you have and see if you like it .